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Judge Rules Health Care Law Is Unconstitutional


peepinmofo
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Why not? People deliberately opting out from the (stupid) insurance system should have no right of treatment, should they?

 

So some child who's parents opted out of an insurance system then has the right to not get treated when he or she is in need of it? Or some person who's not economically capable of affording insurance?

 

I just want to understand your position, because it seems pretty binary as stated.

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Commerce is buying and selling, not just buying.

 

Right, but me sitting in my home minding my own business (not engaging in any buying or selling) is not commerce. Obamacare says that they can force me to engage in commerce instead of me choosing not to.

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So some child who's parents opted out of an insurance system then has the right to not get treated when he or she is in need of it? Or some person who's not economically capable of affording insurance?

 

I just want to understand your position, because it seems pretty binary as stated.

Conservatism is a wonderful thing, isn't it?

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Right, but me sitting in my home minding my own business (not engaging in any buying or selling) is not commerce. Obamacare says that they can force me to engage in commerce instead of me choosing not to.

You don't have to buy insurance. You can choose to pay a penalty instead. What you can't do is elect to be an idiot and expect other people to pay for your hospital bills. But that's exactly what tens of millions of people do in this country, and it's asinine to suggest Congress is impotent to address that.

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No. Nobody is required to buy automobile insurance unless they choose to operate an automobile. With Obamacare, everybody would be required to purchase health insurance period, or be fined/eventually jailed.

 

I wish my wife and I could choose to not drive vehicles. It would save me a lot of money every month. We live in a rural area where mass transit is virtually non-existent so I haven't figured out how to get by without driving. I don't really feel like I have much of a realistic choice on whether I drive or not but I guess when you look at it from a legal standpoint I do.

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I'm not judging, just trying to understand your position.

I'm being entirely literal. One of the points of Obamacare was to insure the uninsured. If that fails due to a legal decision on constitutionality, as conservatives would like, there may well be some constitutional impediment to the directive that no-one can be turned away from an ER.

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You don't have to buy insurance. You can choose to pay a penalty instead. What you can't do is elect to be an idiot and expect other people to pay for your hospital bills. But that's exactly what tens of millions of people do in this country, and it's asinine to suggest Congress is impotent to address that.

 

Isn't that exactly what insurance is? Other people paying for other people? All we are asking for now is that healthy people pay those bills. People who do not even need coverage. How does changing who pays bring down the cost of health care? IT DOES NOT!!!

 

Emergency room expenses are NOT what is driving up the cost of health care. A bureaucratic nightmare that takes the consumer completely out of the picture is along with much better and highly technical cures.

 

The emergency room problem will still exist but it just wont take place in the emergency room. Healthy Americans will be the ones paying not just folks who go to the emergency room. I cannot believe how distorted our system is. NOT only that but how distorted the debate is?

 

Folks in this country know absolutely nothing about money.

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Thank god for "activist" judges... Keep it up yankees and left coasters, the south may rise again!!!!! An we'll take 4 of the top 11 economies in the US with us... See you guys try and live without FedEX, UPS, Home Depot, Collard Greens, Peanuts, Citrus Fruits, Cotton, Pine Lumber, Cat Litter, and Gulf Seafood for a while. That, and we'll ship all the Messicans to your neighborhoods, what ya think of that, bunch of commie toad lickers...

 

You forgot Nascar and the hordes of deer on withdrawal from deer cane.

 

The thing is guys: while the rich fight over how to change healthcare, the poor are still going to the ER for free.

Edited by WaterMan
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If the gov't can make you buy insurance in case you get sick, then why can't they mandate you have to take vitamins and exercise?

Sweet Jesus. The government isn't going to MAKE you buy insurance. All they're "making" anyone do is take economic responsibility for their own behavior. I though conservatives liked economic responsibility.

Edited by yo mama
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Sweet Jesus. The government isn't going to MAKE you buy insurance. All they're "making" anyone do is take economic responsibility for their own behavior. I though conservatives liked economically responsibility.

 

They want you to be responsible without facing consequences if you aren't.

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1. Isn't that exactly what insurance is? Other people paying for other people? All we are asking for now is that healthy people pay those bills. People who do not even need coverage. How does changing who pays bring down the cost of health care? IT DOES NOT!!!

 

2. Folks in this country know absolutely nothing about money.

1. No, that's not really how insurance works. Insurance is a contract where one party (the insurer) collects and pools "premiums" into a common fund from people (the insureds) in order to spread and diversify against a stated risk. Even if everyone pays the same premium, people will utilize the pool of funds differently but based upon agreed actuarial probabilities. The larger the pool of insureds, the more evenly the risk is spread, and the lower the premium per insured.

 

2. You have successfully illustrated that point.

 

You are also missing some larger issues. If currently uninsured people can get routine/preventative medical treatment, and have coverage to treat conditions before they get serious, the total national health care bill goes down. People miss fewer days of work, either for themselves or to take care of sick family members, which is good for the economy. People who actually have to pay for their insurance premiums typically give a damn about how much it costs to provide care in the first place. This is sooooo much more than the 1 dimensional ER situation you imagine.

 

Bottom line, you're going to pay either way - better to pay for the ounce of prevention than the pound of cure... better still if everyone else is pulling at least some of their own weight. There is certainly a lot of OTHER problems in the insurance and health care industries that need fixin. But that's no excuse not to fix the problem of the uninsured.

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All they're "making" anyone do is take economic responsibility for their own behavior.

 

Yeah, hussein is just going to make all those people responsible for themselves signing some draconian law.

 

If it's so great, why the 100+ exemptions and counting? Answer that.

 

It is a terrible, terrible law, and it will be gutted.

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It is a terrible, terrible law, and it will be gutted.

It ain't perfect, that's for sure. But if it get's hillbillies and homos to chat about health care on a fantasy football interwebs, well, it's a start.

Edited by yo mama
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You clearly have not read anything about insurance. It operates on pools of risk. One way of driving it through the roof is to reduce the pool.

 

Pools of risk... you are restating my point. Do you understand this? Do you understand why the cost goes down with increases in size? I think it is best if you answer this question.

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It ain't perfect, that's for sure. But if it get's hillbillies and homos to chat about health care on a fantasy football interwebs, well, it's a start.

 

I prefer the term "slack jawed - peckerwood"...

 

Here is one of my minor problems with the law as written. If you do not purchase insurance and you need medical care you will have to pay a penalty, a penalty which is not as punitive as paying premiums each month. Why the hell am I going to pay monthly premiums, for years possibly, to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars when I know good and well I'm only going to have to come out of pocket a couple grand for the penalty when I do get sick and that's if I even decide to pay the penalty.

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I prefer the term "slack jawed - peckerwood"...

 

Here is one of my minor problems with the law as written. If you do not purchase insurance and you need medical care you will have to pay a penalty, a penalty which is not as punitive as paying premiums each month. Why the hell am I going to pay monthly premiums, for years possibly, to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars when I know good and well I'm only going to have to come out of pocket a couple grand for the penalty when I do get sick and that's if I even decide to pay the penalty.

This is exactly what I was thinking.

 

And doesn't the above lead to a smaller "pool"??

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