The country is broke, state and local govts broke

[gbpfan1231]

What do babysitters get per hour? Multiply that # by # of students in the classroom.. Maybe that should be the least amount a teacher should get per hour worked.

This is just a stupid statement.

[bpwallace49]

Do you think teacher is the only profession that ever brings work home? I honestly know very few people that are salaried that do not bring work home. I'd also ask was the regular class day a full 8 hours? Here it is 7 1/2 hours. Again, I'm not saying that teachers are over paid by any means. I'm just saying it is a misconception that they are grossly underpaid. The number of days was based on my wife's school calendar and I included every day that she is contractually obligated to be there, or do something, less her sick/personal days.

 

My families insurance is through my wife as the school district offers a much better plan than I can afford to offer my employees. This only goes to further show that their total compensation is better than most. My wife does have lessons plans, and does have to grade papers, but she does most of this in her conference period, rather than sitting around talking to other teachers. She also does this while the students are working on assignments during class.

 

Perch, your comparison was to nurses, correct? Are most nurses salary or hourly? Next, how many nurses "take work home"?

 

So your wife is a special needs teacher . . but also runs a classroom and has to grade papers and write lesson plans? really?

 

I am not getting into the over/underpaid argument. It is wholly counter productive. The issue doesnt tend to be the salary, but the benefits.

 

I agree with you on the benefits. Now that illustrates why some of the benefits are costing states. I know if my wife went back to work in her profession (she has a teaching degree) that her benefits are much better than what I would get, so our familiy would use her insurance. I wonder how many families DO do that currently? Like what % of families that have a teacher as a parant use the school insurance versus the other spouse's insurance?

[gbpfan1231]

Perch, your comparison was to nurses, correct? Are most nurses salary or hourly? Next, how many nurses "take work home"?

 

So your wife is a special needs teacher . . but also runs a classroom and has to grade papers and write lesson plans? really?

 

I am not getting into the over/underpaid argument. It is wholly counter productive. The issue doesnt tend to be the salary, but the benefits.

 

I agree with you on the benefits. Now that illustrates why some of the benefits are costing states. I know if my wife went back to work in her profession (she has a teaching degree) that her benefits are much better than what I would get, so our familiy would use her insurance. I wonder how many families DO do that currently? Like what % of families that have a teacher as a parant use the school insurance versus the other spouse's insurance?

I would assume it would be a very high percentage. I am pretty sure that anyone where I work would choose the teacher benfits over what we get here. I think that would be the common practice.

[borge007]

This is just a stupid statement.

Why?

[gbpfan1231]

Why?

Because teachers are different than babysitters.

 

Hey if a NBA team has 12 players and a coach makes 12,000 per year then the football coach should make 53,000 per year right?

[borge007]

Because teachers are different than babysitters.

 

Hey if a NBA team has 12 players and a coach makes 12,000 per year then the football coach should make 53,000 per year right?

You really don't get it-do you?

Edited February 23, 2011 by borge007

[Big Country]

I agree with you on the benefits. Now that illustrates why some of the benefits are costing states. I know if my wife went back to work in her profession (she has a teaching degree) that her benefits are much better than what I would get, so our familiy would use her insurance. I wonder how many families DO do that currently? Like what % of families that have a teacher as a parant use the school insurance versus the other spouse's insurance?

 

 

I would assume it would be a very high percentage. I am pretty sure that anyone where I work would choose the teacher benfits over what we get here. I think that would be the common practice.

 

 

 

One problem I have with the discussion thus far, if we are really worried about who is or isn't over/under paid is that just looking at salary only paints a small piece of the picture. You really need to look at the total compensation which includes benefits such as insurance and, in my opinion, much of the summer's off, etc. Perch did a decent job looking at salaries for hours worked, but really unless you can break it down to hours worked you're not going to get a true comparison for wages, and if you ignore the vlaue of benefits, you;re really not going to get a true comparison of total compensation.

 

To me, the biggest payoff to being a teacher (compensation-wise, not the educating the youth wise) is in the benefits that most see - generally a pension (how many in private industry get a defined benefit pension these days), generally pretty good health care options (with decent family coverage costs too), summers off (to me, this has to be considered a benefit of the profession), etc.

 

 

(Full disclaimer, my wife has a Master's in Education, though she is not currently teaching, and is up in the air as to if she would want to go into a classroom full time once she goes back to full time work when the kids are all in school full time, so it may be a wasted Masters in Education )

[Azazello1313]

You really don't get it-do you?

 

don't get that a teacher should make 30 times what you pay someone to watch your one kid? seems like a pretty stupid statement to me too, put me down on the "just don't get it" side.

[caddyman]

Do you think teacher is the only profession that ever brings work home? I honestly know very few people that are salaried that do not bring work home.

 

Amen to that. That argument is weak sauce. Lot's of people bring work home. I work for an hour or so before I go into the office every morning and quite often work in the evening. I can't tell you how many times we have been on vacation and I got the wifely glare because I was working. But to hear the teachers talk, they have some claim to putting in a few hours after work. And I don't get 100 days off to catch up either. The job should be respected like many others, but in no way should they be put on a pedestal. Why they need some sort of special treatment is still a mystery.

[Brewer]

I would assume it would be a very high percentage. I am pretty sure that anyone where I work would choose the teacher benfits over what we get here. I think that would be the common practice.

My wife is a special education teacher in a poor school district and I'm a partner in a small engineering firm. We take my health insurance as we can pick a plan that suites our needs and has our doctors in network. We have 4 employees who are married to teachers. I believe that 2 take our insurance and 2 take the teachers insurance.

[keggerz]

Here's my proposals to save tax dollars for public schools:

 

-no buses.

-no lunches.

-no books (available for download).

-hawt teachers start stripping.

-three separate classes...one for people that will never make it in life (babysitting classes), one for average people (current system), and one for smart people (Republican classes).

-parents pay more in taxes for every kid they have. It was your choice to have the little thing.

-get rid of at least half the admin. Principals don't really do anything anyway.

 

 

Mine is just a start and should save a ton of money for your retirement and benefits.

 

ETA: And sell Wisconsin and those other loser states to Canada already. Do we really need Michigan and Illinois and New York really?

is the state gonna buy students computers

[borge007]

don't get that a teacher should make 30 times what you pay someone to watch your one kid? seems like a pretty stupid statement to me too, put me down on the "just don't get it" side.

Figure it out- A babysitter-with no formal training-gets paid $5 am hour. A teacher, with at least 4 years of formal training,is in charge of 25 students for 7-8 hours a day. That would be $125 an hour -just to baby sit amd not teach.. People are saying that teachers have so many months off, yada,yada,yada. $125X7=$875 dollars a day, etc., Now do you get it?

[gbpfan1231]

Figure it out- A babysitter-with no formal training-gets paid $5 am hour. A teacher, with at least 4 years of formal training,is in charge of 25 students for 7-8 hours a day. That would be $125 an hour -just to baby sit amd not teach.. People are saying that teachers have so many months off, yada,yada,yada. $125X7=$875 dollars a day, etc., Now do you get it?

So then a college teacher who lectures in front of a class that say has 150 students would get paid $750 per hour. That would be awesome - I could teach one class a day for 140 days and make over 100k. I think you need to figure it out.

 

I guess I still don't get it.

[borge007]

So then a college teacher who lectures in front of a class that say has 150 students would get paid $750 per hour. That would be awesome - I could teach one class a day for 140 days and make over 100k. I think you need to figure it out.

 

I guess I still don't get it.

Teachers(and their pay and benefits) and collective bargaining are NOT the reason states have a budget deficit and Walker is full of himself and full of s---t. I was trying to point out that a babysitter gets paid more than a teacher(per child-per hour) Now do you get it?

[The Mucca]

Teachers(and their pay and benefits) and collective bargaining are NOT the reason states have a budget deficit and Walker is full of himself and full of s---t. I was trying to point out that a babysitter gets paid more than a teacher(per child-per hour) Now do you get it?

 

It's against the law to babysit that many kids at the same time, you would need to own a daycare. So yes, owning your own daycare, you should make more than a teacher.

[tosberg34]

Teachers(and their pay and benefits) and collective bargaining are NOT the reason states have a budget deficit and Walker is full of himself and full of s---t. I was trying to point out that a babysitter gets paid more than a teacher(per child-per hour) Now do you get it?

 

Nope. Apparently you're the only one that does.

 

The reason States have budgets deficits is due in part to collective bargaining. There are all kinds of factors that go into that equation (mostly spending like drunken sailors) and to think that collective bargaining DOES NOT affect the bottom line is not being honest. By removing the collective bargaining Walker has now given a tool for the 1000 local counties and municipalities in WI to help balance their OWN budgets because Walkers full budget (unleashed in March) is going to have MASSIVE cuts in state funding that will directly affect those budgets. They won't have to deal with unions stalling, striking or dragging "negotiations" (more on this later) and basically holding he taxpayer hostage. Unions have balked at any attempt at negotiating for lesser benefits, even when 90% of America has suffered.

 

Again, your liberal hero FDR even said there are no place for unions in the public sector because you cannot prevent the government from doing the people's business and holding Democracy hostage, and that is EXACTLY what the unions have done and are doing right now (have you seen 14 missing WI Senators?).

 

Unions accounted for about 400 million dollars to Democrats during the 2008 election cycle. 93% of their political contributions go to Democrats. Period. They stack these school boards and government positions with union lackeys and then attempt to promote wage and benefit negotiations as "good faith" negotiations. That's utterly ridiculous. You have union lackeys negotiating with other union lackeys for wages and benefits paid for by the taxpayers. I ask you this: Who represents the taxpayers? It's certainly NOT Democrats. If you don't take away the collective bargaining privileges then in a few years when Democrats DO get back in office they are going to give everything right back and more. Private sector unions are different (and i'm not necessarily in favor of them either) because you have two equal entities (the employer and the union) doing the negotiating. You don't have that in the public sector.

 

And here is a good example of what I'm talking about: Here in Milwaukee we had the MPS school board in 2009 try to provide for domestic partner (read: homesexuals and other people who just shack up together) benefits - WHEN THE UNION NEVER ASKED FOR THEM! Why, you may ask? Well, because one of the board members was a lesbian herself and figured that we should just pay for all that stuff as well. Nice. this is the BS that we conservatives talk about - it's not "good faith" negotiations - it's the kids running the taxpayer candy store.

 

And lets not misconstrue my statements as being anti-gay (which I know some of you will try and do - you know who you are). My point is that Democrats and Unions will never stop raping the taxpayers every chance they get. It never stops with them. There is no such thing as "good faith" negotiations when you have a Democrat on one side of the table and the Union on the other.

 

One other thing I want to clear up: Collective Bargaining is NOT a right - it was a privilege given to them long ago by a bunch of socialists in the WI legislature. And, just like a drivers license, it can and should be taken away.

Edited February 23, 2011 by tosberg34

[borge007]

It's against the law to babysit that many kids at the same time, you would need to own a daycare. So yes, owning your own daycare, you should make more than a teacher.

[The Mucca]

 

I could of just said, I don't get it either.

[Ursa Majoris]

Is there a downside that I'm missing here?

Yes. Simply turning up day in day out to try to educate a bunch of brain dead morans who pay more attention to their iPhone than to anything that might actually fire a synapse or two. I'd rather live in a box under a bridge than be a teacher.

[caddyman]

Figure it out- A babysitter-with no formal training-gets paid $5 am hour. A teacher, with at least 4 years of formal training,is in charge of 25 students for 7-8 hours a day. That would be $125 an hour -just to baby sit amd not teach.. People are saying that teachers have so many months off, yada,yada,yada. $125X7=$875 dollars a day, etc., Now do you get it?

People aren't saying that teachers have so many months off...THEY DO! IT IS A FACT. Whaty people are saying is that being a teacher has its perks and its downside. Teachers go out of their way to point out the negatives. Can't figure that out. There are plenty of jobs out there that are more difficult, and a lot more stressful. But to hear a teacher, you would think that they have the toughest job in the world. Sorry they don't. Frankly, I don't even know why we have to APPRECIATE teachers like we are always told. They get paid to to a job.

[SayItAintSoJoe]

Frankly, I don't even know why we have to APPRECIATE teachers like we are always told. They get paid to to a job.

 

 

You don't have to appreciate them, you either do or you don't.

 

I do, just because when I think back to some of the people that have had the greatest impact on my life many of them are teachers.

[SEC=UGA]

What is the deal with liberals and their affinity for bongo drums?

 

The Assembly began debate around noon Tuesday, with lawmakers coming to the floor under heavy guard as protesters in the rotunda cheered and banged on buckets and bongo drums.

Edited February 23, 2011 by SEC=UGA

[TimC]

Yes. Simply turning up day in day out to try to educate a bunch of brain dead morans who pay more attention to their iPhone than to anything that might actually fire a synapse or two. I'd rather live in a box under a bridge than be a teacher.

 

Same here. I couldn't teach these brain dead morans the parents are raising in today's society. Especially now, when you can't even raise your voice to them to behave without a lawsuit from the idjut parents. We should be directing money from the lazy poor in this country straight into these teachers purses.

 

The more disturbing feature of all this is the Democrats leaving the state to avoid a vote. They need to show up, be heard and vote for the teacher's unions. Even if they are defeated in that vote. Let the electorate decide their fate in the next election. What they are doing is the sneakiest political BS move I've ever witnessed. They should be brought down for their actions.

[TimC]

What is the deal with liberals and their affinity for bongo drums?

 

Ummm, pothead hippie fokkers love a good bongo.

[Ursa Majoris]

The more disturbing feature of all this is the Democrats leaving the state to avoid a vote. They need to show up, be heard and vote for the teacher's unions. Even if they are defeated in that vote. Let the electorate decide their fate in the next election. What they are doing is the sneakiest political BS move I've ever witnessed. They should be brought down for their actions.

And yet filibusters are OK even though they are nothing but a procedural move to delay a vote and, these days, the filibustering member doesn't even have to speak.