Avernus Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 on a lighter note....TEH REPTILIANS ARE TAKING OVAAAA the one post from Duchess Jack made me look up one of my favorite crackpot conspiracy theories which is at the top of the crackpot list......there are good conspiracies and there are ridiculous ones....this one is my favorite ridiculous conspiracy... I will warn that 2:55 is NSFW as this woman is unbelievably creepy......and after looking at her, I think I'm sold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 I think I am on the opposite end of the spectrum of Brent. I am guessing that Brent looks for the bad things in people and assumes all the people way "above" us down here are evil. I go the other route - I think people tend to try and be good - are there evil people - hell yes - some people at the bottom are evil and some people at the top are evil. People rail on Bush and say he was behind 9/11 or even went to war for oil because ofhis families connections - come on - He really is that bad of a person? I don't think so - did he think going to war with Iraq was the right thing to do - I believe he thought it was - do I think he did it with selfish intentions no. Maybe I am naive but I think that. On the other side of the coin - does Obama and/or liberals want the USA to tank so they can further a socialist agenda? Hell no! Do I agree with Obama's health care agenda - no - do I believe that Obama thinks it is the right thing for the people - Yes I think he does. Do some companies do things for greed that are wrong - yes - are most companies this way - no - I believe most are good. I don't get worked about and try to find the bad in people - I tend to assume the good in people until it is somewhat proven they are bad. Am I a sheep for this? Who knows and I would rather assume the good in people before the bad. On a side not - I think thsi topic is a useless thread - the intention of this original thread is to pick on a single person and in my opinion is in bad taste - the only intent of this topic was to degrade an individual which is wrong. Just my two cents. this is pretty much my sentiments on my 1st post in this thread....but as I said, it's like groundhog day every time I read something from the OP... he just offers nothing to the forum other than cancer....I hate to say that about anyone, but it's true... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted April 16, 2011 Author Share Posted April 16, 2011 (edited) I'll be honest in that I started this thread after I read Brent's post here (a thread I didn't even post in ): http://forums.thehuddle.com/index.php?s=&a...t&p=3418775 Brent is a big boy, he's states what he thinks and then usually gets uppity when people don't agree with him. The article in the OP of this thread nails it on the head. Maybe one shouldn't routinely make grandiose statements, usually laced with personal insults to other members, if he can't handle a rather mundane thread like this. Jumping to Brent's defense here while he continues to insult DJ and others is a..... You two are just desperate to take a shot at the great one. Avernuts, maybe you should just not read me anymore, or you maybe you can make yet another post in this thread obsessing about me. Edited April 16, 2011 by bushwacked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt770 Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 I think I am on the opposite end of the spectrum of Brent. I am guessing that Brent looks for the bad things in people and assumes all the people way "above" us down here are evil. I go the other route - I think people tend to try and be good - are there evil people - hell yes - some people at the bottom are evil and some people at the top are evil. You've touched on the reason I believe with the greatest degree of certainty possible that the really diabolical conspiracy theories are bunk -- they conflict with human nature. I have a number of concepts on this, bear with me... You said people tend to try and be good. I would use the word well-intentioned. They go into politics to make a positive difference. They go into business to make money, to provide for a family, to accumulate wealth, to have nice things, to take nice vacations -- things I would argue are not inherently bad in and of themselves. They can become all-consuming and start to infringe on other people which I'll get to in a minute...but at its core, the desire to make money is not an evil trait. I don't think anyone here would call ambition evil. Now, 5 years, 10 years in, the politician has moved up from mayor to senator...the business man has gone from supervisor to VP...some things have changed. Maybe he's a little cynical about the game, maybe he's cut some corners because he sees everyone else doing it, maybe he's done some things he's really not proud of...but here's the key -- HE IS STILL WELL INTENTIONED. The game may have changed his character to an extent where he becomes greedy, maybe doesn't value relationships like he once did. But he still believes he is doing right in his job. He still feels he is the best man for the job. The main thing that has changed is his idealism -- he knows he has to play by a different set of rules to get ahead. Now, what happens when the VP becomes CEO? Now he's up in the stratosphere. The world he operates in is so far from the factory floor, it might as well be another planet. What is his driving motivation? Revenue. The stock price. Return on investment for his shareholders. That's it. He'll talk about innovation and opening new markets or whatever the buzzwords are, but bottom line, if he wants to remain CEO, he needs to make a sh!tload of money for the company. How does he do this? He makes sure the company has the bare minimum of employees to handle the work. He moves factories overseas. He finds creative ways to dump toxic waste. He doesn't see the negative consequences of what he's doing, because by now he is so far disconnected from the rank and file. Or, he finds ways to justify it. He'll say, maybe I eliminated factory jobs, but this country has a shortage of engineers, so maybe I've motivated some people to go back to school. And here's the key -- he's getting positive reinforcement from the board and from his shareholders, because he's making money for the company. So in his mind, he's effective, he's doing good. People at this upper echelon can believe all kinds of wacky things, like corporations are a force for good, and gloss over a lot of the horrible things they do. So my main point here is that our businessman who started out well-intentioned has remained so -- it's the system he operates in that has a tendency to crush little people. And people have a tendency to lie to themselves to justify the things they do. In politics it's a bit different. And here is what I find amusing -- the idea that Bush was in any way capable of an evil conspiracy. That man is as dumb as a fencepost. He came from the right family, went to the right schools, built a résumé with a solid C average and we were dumb enough to settle for him. We have no one to blame but ourselves for that. But...evil? No. This one is easy. Bush is a crusader. He wanted to spread democracy, he wanted to crush the evildoers. He lived in a simple world of black and white, right and wrong, which reflects his Christian beliefs. Sorry if I offend anyone with that, but it's so true of the really devout Christians. You're either going to heaven, or you're going to hell. You're with us, or against us. You're wearing a suit, or a towel on your head. Bush was as well-intentioned as they come, and I'm sure he believes to this day that he did a fine job. People have a tendency to lie to themselves to justify the things that they do. Now I'm going to veer off a little bit, but bear with me, it's important. I'm going to talk about psychopaths. A lot of you think a psychopath is a serial killer or rapist, and you're half right. Many serial killers and rapists are psychopaths, but most psychopaths are not serial killers or rapists. They are everywhere, and I'm sure many of you have come into contact with one in your life. I sure have, unfortunately, which is why I've read books on the subject. Here is why it is pertinent to this discussion -- you can divide psychopaths into roughly two categories. The first is the lazy parasite that seeks relationships with people to suck away at their resources and does the bare minimum amount of work. The second type is more dangerous -- they are usually very clever and ambitious and use their lack of conscience to ruthlessly move ahead in life. These are the guys that often do really well in business. I could write a ton more on this subject but it's all available online if you care. The reason I bring it up is that for an evil conspiracy theory to happen, Brent, the really horrible ones you believe, you would need a group of psychopaths working together, and that simply doesn't happen. Psychopaths operate alone with very few exceptions. They are completely self-centered and lack conscience, so by definition they aren't going to trust anyone else with their evil plans. And if they did, the other psychopaths would quickly stab each other in the back, and hog all the proceeds for themselves. They are like magnets, they repel each other. Even if one became CEO of a huge corporation (and I'm sure it's happened), he did it by crushing the well-intentioned people on the way up, not by partnering with other psychopaths. And once he got there, he operated very similarly to the well-intentioned CEO. He closed factories and fired people, and the board sang his praises because he raised the stock price. The only difference is, instead of lying to himself, he laughed at all the people he screwed over. Honestly, I can see why people might think that the things that happen in our world could be the result of evil conspiracies. The system operates in a way that looks very similar to pure evil in so many ways, when people at the bottom get crushed. The system rewards the wrong things. You don't make more money by opening a homeless shelter. We suffer from a lack of values. Slowly but surely, things that were once unacceptable in our society are no longer. Now we like to gawk at freaks, and there are people who strive to be the freaks we gawk at, because it means someone is paying attention. There was once such a thing as enough money. Now, the CEO has to have 10 homes. We've become disconnected from each other, we no longer have time to work out our problems rationally, it's easier to flip somebody off or shoot or stab him. A lot of church leaders have been exposed as charlatans or worse. We've become cynical and fearful. We say, I'm a good guy, but that other guy wants my job or my wife. Well you know what, with rare exceptions, we're all good guys. We need to stop looking up at the guys in the ivory towers and assign fantastical evil motives to them, and look down at ourselves, because we allow this crap to go on when we know it's wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted April 16, 2011 Author Share Posted April 16, 2011 In politics it's a bit different. And here is what I find amusing -- the idea that Bush was in any way capable of an evil conspiracy. That man is as dumb as a fencepost. He came from the right family, went to the right schools, built a résumé with a solid C average and we were dumb enough to settle for him. We have no one to blame but ourselves for that. But...evil? No. This one is easy. Bush is a crusader. He wanted to spread democracy, he wanted to crush the evildoers. He lived in a simple world of black and white, right and wrong, which reflects his Christian beliefs. Sorry if I offend anyone with that, but it's so true of the really devout Christians. You're either going to heaven, or you're going to hell. You're with us, or against us. You're wearing a suit, or a towel on your head. Bush was as well-intentioned as they come, and I'm sure he believes to this day that he did a fine job. People have a tendency to lie to themselves to justify the things that they do. Sadly, the practice of villianizing (is that a word?) a president seems to have increased greatly over the last several years. I was obviously disgusted with the Bush presidency for what I perceived to be piss-poor policy decisions. But, not for conspiring with reptilian overlords to diminish the population. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 I'll be honest in that I started this thread after I read Brent's post here (a thread I didn't even post in ): http://forums.thehuddle.com/index.php?s=&a...t&p=3418775 Brent is a big boy, he's states what he thinks and then usually gets uppity when people don't agree with him. The article in the OP of this thread nails it on the head. Maybe one shouldn't routinely make grandiose statements, usually laced with personal insults to other members, if he can't handle a rather mundane thread like this. Jumping to Brent's defense here while he continues to insult DJ and others is a..... You two are just desperate to take a shot at the great one. Avernuts, maybe you should just not read me anymore, or you maybe you can make yet another post in this thread obsessing about me. Isn't this what you just did by starting this topic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted April 16, 2011 Author Share Posted April 16, 2011 Isn't this what you just did by starting this topic? No. But if we want to keep talking about me instead of the subject at hand, maybe you can start another thread? Then we can post about my awesomeness until the cows come home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 You said people tend to try and be good. I would use the word well-intentioned. They go into politics to make a positive difference. That might be true of many but there is a rapidly increasing minority that are, from the very beginning, the creatures of other people. The system, requiring colossal sums to even have a shot, guarantees this will be the case. Beware mostly of those who receive their contributions through business PACs and actively oppose both campaign finance reform and exposure of the true origins of the money. On top of this, many of the ones who DID start with intentions of making a positive difference become creatures of their financial backers as they go on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 No. But if we want to keep talking about me instead of the subject at hand, maybe you can start another thread? Then we can post about my awesomeness until the cows come home. It is little comments like this that I think get people to start taking shots. It sure seems like you enjoy making the comments that set people off and then you come back with comments about other people throwing insults - It sure seems like a lot of things you post are posted with the intent to get people worked up and it seems like you enjoy it. Said in my opinion. I will admit that I am very opinionated and I throw my opinions out on this site and a lot of people here disagree with it. I also read what other people write and I disagree with a lot of it - rarely do I see the same side of the argument as people like Ursa, BPwallace, Swammi, Clubfoothead, etc but if any of these people came to Green Bay and wanted to have a beer I would gladly partake and I am assuming I would enjoy it and see that these people are good people. From what I read from you I don't think I would enjoy that beer with you. You come across as an antagonist and that is not a trait that I like in people. Well that is enough on that subject so carry on with the subject of degrading people for believing in conspiracies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt770 Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 The system, requiring colossal sums to even have a shot, guarantees this will be the case. I think everyone here that argues about politics could agree with the above statement, which speaks volumes about the system as a whole. I love the show The Wire. To boil down the show's message, a bunch of cops join the force to fight crime and they learn that their real job is to advance a political agenda. They learn that the drug problem is unsolvable, but they still must go through the motions of making meaningless arrests to pad the numbers so the mayor and police chief look good. So their job is not REALLY about keeping the streets safe from drugs, because drugs aren't going away. And their leadership knows this but can't admit it to their constituents, because they can't handle the truth. So the cops in this pointless role become disillusioned, depressed, start to drink and cheat on their spouses. They didn't suddenly become bad people, the institution they are a part of compelled them to do the wrong things. You can say that about most types of institutions that mankind has ever devised, from governments to corporations to churches. It's a kind of mob mentality where no single person is accountable for the actions of the group. And in that environment, it's easy to be tempted to steal a TV, because the rest of the mob is doing it and it seems less likely that one will get caught. There is something in our human nature that prevents us from forming really good institutions that have any staying power. We're constantly building things up that eventually crumble. It's been our story since mankind has existed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted April 16, 2011 Author Share Posted April 16, 2011 (edited) It is little comments like this that I think get people to start taking shots. It sure seems like you enjoy making the comments that set people off and then you come back with comments about other people throwing insults - It sure seems like a lot of things you post are posted with the intent to get people worked up and it seems like you enjoy it. Said in my opinion. I will admit that I am very opinionated and I throw my opinions out on this site and a lot of people here disagree with it. I also read what other people write and I disagree with a lot of it - rarely do I see the same side of the argument as people like Ursa, BPwallace, Swammi, Clubfoothead, etc but if any of these people came to Green Bay and wanted to have a beer I would gladly partake and I am assuming I would enjoy it and see that these people are good people. From what I read from you I don't think I would enjoy that beer with you. You come across as an antagonist and that is not a trait that I like in people. Well that is enough on that subject so carry on with the subject of degrading people for believing in conspiracies. Pretty much everyone who has met me would testify I'm probably the coolest mofo on the planet. I'm charismatic, handsome, and have the brains to boot. I have Fabio looks and a Steven Hawking like brain. But, seriously, enough about me. Edited April 16, 2011 by bushwacked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt770 Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Pretty much everyone who has met me would testify I'm probably the coolest mofo on the planet. -- Charlie Sheen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 In order to believe this, you have to believe that the Bush administration recruited 19 Muslims to carry out a suicide mission on their behalf. You also have to believe that a government that gives a low ranking drone access to top secret diplomatic messages could keep such a colossal plot secret. You have to be certifiable. this. the grand conspiracies don't make a shred of sense, simply because there is no way the secret wouldn't slip out at some point. and quite frankly, the "elites" aren't nearly intelligent enough to carry all of this crap out...and why on earth would they? I look at the "elites" and I see lots of things....greed, sanctimony, arrogance, the will to power, sometimes an earnest desire to "fix" the world by shaping it in their image...and a whole lot of sort of comical incompetence. they are mostly pretty damn transparent. when I was a kid, I was afraid of monsters. then I grew up, and put away childish irrational fears. some people are a little slow in that respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylive5 Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 the grand conspiracies don't make a shred of sense, simply because there is no way the secret wouldn't slip out at some point. After much research I have come to a very horrifying conclusion. I believe that there just may be a core of Huddlers who have conspired against all other Huddlers to make them believe that there are no conspiracies. I am shocked at this revelation. Shocked I say! In the meantime.... just remember..... Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you. (Heller) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted April 16, 2011 Author Share Posted April 16, 2011 (edited) this. the grand conspiracies don't make a shred of sense, simply because there is no way the secret wouldn't slip out at some point. and quite frankly, the "elites" aren't nearly intelligent enough to carry all of this crap out...and why on earth would they? I look at the "elites" and I see lots of things....greed, sanctimony, arrogance, the will to power, sometimes an earnest desire to "fix" the world by shaping it in their image...and a whole lot of sort of comical incompetence. they are mostly pretty damn transparent. when I was a kid, I was afraid of monsters. then I grew up, and put away childish irrational fears. some people are a little slow in that respect. Yup. Fortunately these grandiose conspiracies are usually recognized as nonsense by the public in general, minimizing the potential damage. However, sometimes conspiracies take a societal toll. The Holocaust comes to mind, a nation buying into the conspiracy that Jews needed to be eliminated from the German race. Mcarthyism in the 40's and 50's did this country no favors. There is a substantial segment today who legimately believe Obama is a Kenyan born Socialist, which only retards legitimate issues at hand. There is no doubt conspiracies can sometimes have a profound negative effect on society. And the people who propogate it, genuinely think they are one of the few who know "the truth." Edited April 16, 2011 by bushwacked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Yup. Fortunately these grandiose conspiracies are usually recognized as nonsense by the public in general, minimizing the potential damage. However, sometimes conspiracies take a societal toll. The Holocaust comes to mind, a nation buying into the conspiracy that Jews needed to be eliminated from the German race. Mcarthyism in the 40's and 50's did this country no favors. There is a substantial segment today who legimately believe Obama is a Kenyan born Socialist, which only retards legitimate issues at hand. There is no doubt conspiracies can sometimes have a profound negative effect on society. And the people who propogate it, genuinely think they are one of the few who know "the truth." These are good and interesting points as they deal with a different type of conspiracy theory, one that is generated by (some of) the people in charge. I would suggest that the successful conspiracy theories are driven by fear and / or hate and for that to be effective, someone at the top or near the top has to have a hand in spreading it and sometimes be assisted by the press and media. This was the case with the Jews in Germany (a handy scapegoat for all that had gone wrong for Germany since 1914) and the reds-under-the-beds scare (a relentless diet of anti-communist fear-mongering driven by the military and the defense industry to generate meaning and power for themselves). I think fear-mongering is the reason I can't stand the talk radio and Fox News brigade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 These are good and interesting points as they deal with a different type of conspiracy theory, one that is generated by (some of) the people in charge. I would suggest that the successful conspiracy theories are driven by fear and / or hate and for that to be effective, someone at the top or near the top has to have a hand in spreading it and sometimes be assisted by the press and media. This was the case with the Jews in Germany (a handy scapegoat for all that had gone wrong for Germany since 1914) and the reds-under-the-beds scare (a relentless diet of anti-communist fear-mongering driven by the military and the defense industry to generate meaning and power for themselves). I think fear-mongering is the reason I can't stand the talk radio and Fox News brigade. Fox news fear mongering is all that much different from the left media claiming that millions of elderly and children will starve if the right had their way? Fear mongering on both sides is rampant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 (edited) Fox news fear mongering is all that much different from the left media claiming that millions of elderly and children will starve if the right had their way? Links? Washington Post? NYT? CNN? Please be specific about millions starving. TIA. Edit: Assuming these are what you mean by "left media". Edited April 16, 2011 by Ursa Majoris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WashingtonD Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Fear mongering on both sides is rampant. Quite the wide ranging discussion, any chance we can get back to steaks? On the above point I agree, both sides have extreme "ends" that play to fear and ignorance. It is what makes pretty much all talk radio painful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mucca Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Links? Washington Post? NYT? CNN? Please be specific about millions starving. TIA. Edit: Assuming these are what you mean by "left media". Pelosi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted April 16, 2011 Author Share Posted April 16, 2011 (edited) Pelosi Isn't a hyper-critical critique of Nancy Pelosi, giving her 4 Pinocchio noses on her claims the opposite of "fear mongering of the left media?" While I've found every single "the main stream news does the same thing" two wrongs make it right defense rather weak, this one takes the cake (or completely misses the point). Can anyone come up with an example of the mainstream media being this desperately despicable to come up with a "story?"....Ever? This is pretty typical Fox news type reporting. I don't ever remember MSNBC linking a suicide to a Bush speech. Edited April 17, 2011 by bushwacked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tosberg34 Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Isn't a hyper-critical critique of Nancy Pelosi, giving her 4 Pinocchio noses on her claims the opposite of "fear mongering of the left media?" While I've found every single "the main stream news does the same thing" two wrongs make it right defense rather weak, this one takes the cake (or completely misses the point). Can anyone come up with an example of the mainstream media being this desperately despicable to come up with a "story?"....Ever? This is pretty typical Fox news type reporting. I don't ever remember MSNBC linking a suicide to a Bush speech. Actually, I can. And here's the link to the actual story. But let's ignore this and blame Fox instead because it fits your argument better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted April 17, 2011 Author Share Posted April 17, 2011 (edited) theprogressive.org is a way slanted leftist site and isn't or doesn't pretend to be mainstream news. So now you agree Fox news is essentially the same as theprogressive.org but on the opposite spectrum and on a major news channel. Good werk kneejerk. Edited April 17, 2011 by bushwacked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tosberg34 Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 (edited) theprogressive.org is a way slanted leftist site and not mainstream news on a major network. Is this your way of admitting Fox news is the same (but on the opposite spectrum)? Kneejerk. You asked for it and you got it and now you deny it. Am I surprised? Nah. And you must not know the definition of knee-jerk, either. You asked a question and got an answer. Edited April 17, 2011 by tosberg34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 I'll be honest in that I started this thread after I read Brent's post here (a thread I didn't even post in ): http://forums.thehuddle.com/index.php?s=&a...t&p=3418775 Brent is a big boy, he's states what he thinks and then usually gets uppity when people don't agree with him. The article in the OP of this thread nails it on the head. Maybe one shouldn't routinely make grandiose statements, usually laced with personal insults to other members, if he can't handle a rather mundane thread like this. Jumping to Brent's defense here while he continues to insult DJ and others is a..... You two are just desperate to take a shot at the great one. Avernuts, maybe you should just not read me anymore, or you maybe you can make yet another post in this thread obsessing about me. how could I stop when you provide gold such as "Avernuts"......and I'm not coming to his defense, you didn't even mention him by name in your original post anyways.... but I don't think I've seen anything of quality from you other than the Foo Fighters thread....but that's because of Foo Fighters and not you ......ps: lighten up...you know this thread was started based on nonsense.....regardless of who you aimed it at...or didn't.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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