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Puddy

I really hate the imbalance between the NL and AL

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Having 16 teams in the NL and 14 in the AL is ludicrous. So teams in the AL West only have to beat out three other teams to win the division while the champion of the NL Central has to beat out five teams. Unbelieveable that exists. I say go back to two divisions in each league. Ideally they'd drop two NL teams and have two seven team divisions. I just can't believe the advantage the AL West teams have in making the playoffs.

Edited by Puddy

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that is not the only imbalance ... the DH rule kills me. pitchers should hit and players should also be in the field.

 

about your post, I cannot handle more than one wild card team making the playoffs b/c winning your division should be what the regular season is all about.

Edited by Scooby's Hubby

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that is not the only imbalance ... the DH rule kills me. pitchers should hit and players should also be in the field.

Well....it's no fun watching pitchers hit. Sure it adds an element of 'strategy' for the manager but pitchers hitting flat out doesn't make sense any longer. Pitchers are groomed as specialists way earlier than reaching the major leagues so they don't spend much time learning to hit any longer. Why force them to at the higher level. Sometimes 'tradition' can get in the way of progress IMO.

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Well....it's no fun watching pitchers hit. Sure it adds an element of 'strategy' for the manager but pitchers hitting flat out doesn't make sense any longer. Pitchers are groomed as specialists way earlier than reaching the major leagues so they don't spend much time learning to hit any longer. Why force them to at the higher level. Sometimes 'tradition' can get in the way of progress IMO.

 

 

I agree

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Well....it's no fun watching pitchers hit. Sure it adds an element of 'strategy' for the manager but pitchers hitting flat out doesn't make sense any longer. Pitchers are groomed as specialists way earlier than reaching the major leagues so they don't spend much time learning to hit any longer. Why force them to at the higher level. Sometimes 'tradition' can get in the way of progress IMO.

 

Your point is well taken, but, the DH takes a LOT of the strategic / managerial aspects out of the game. A bench player in the AL better make himself comfortable, because he is likely to stay there. It is MUCH easier to be an in-game manager in the AL. Should I let this pitcher try to get this last out, as he's the first batter next inning ? Should I make a double-switch here ? Those questions never come into play in the AL.

 

Now, as to the problems with baseball, there are MANY, MANY problems.

 

1) The un-level playing field due to the lack of a salary cap. Their should be a minimum and maximum salary cap. There are only 8-10 teams with enough money to buy a championship each year. You might be able to compete (Oakland, Minnesota, etc.) at the middle or bottom of the salary ranges, but, they haven't won it. Florida proved that you can out-and-out buy a championship. They bought a team, won the championship and then sold it. The Yankees and Red Sox should feel shame when they don't win it, considering the advantage they have. Spend tons on a 1st Baseman that doesn't work out, no big deal, get rid of him and buy another. Teams like the Pirates have been just as big of a problem. They have saved their money in the past to turn a profit. This is broken and really takes away from the game, but, I don't see it ever changing, as the players have too much power now.

 

2) The Designated Hitter needs to be removed, in my opinion, for the reasons that I stated above. I understand other's opinions, but, both leagues should go one way or the other, but, I would prefer to remove the DH. The NL has a distinct disadvantage when playing in AL stadiums, as the AL teams are built with a designated hitter in mind. The NL's slight advantage of having pitchers who get at-bats is hardly the same, as they rarely hit anyway. Their batting does add the strategy to the game that I love.

 

3) The division are a mess. How are the Pirates not in a division with the Phillies. I agree that they need to also find a way to get an equal number of teams in each division.

 

4) The schedule sucks. I realize you should play your division more, but, playing divisional teams 18 times, and non-divisional teams 5 or 6 times is ridiculous.

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Your point is well taken, but, the DH takes a LOT of the strategic / managerial aspects out of the game. A bench player in the AL better make himself comfortable, because he is likely to stay there. It is MUCH easier to be an in-game manager in the AL. Should I let this pitcher try to get this last out, as he's the first batter next inning ? Should I make a double-switch here ? Those questions never come into play in the AL.

 

Now, as to the problems with baseball, there are MANY, MANY problems.

 

1) The un-level playing field due to the lack of a salary cap. Their should be a minimum and maximum salary cap. There are only 8-10 teams with enough money to buy a championship each year. You might be able to compete (Oakland, Minnesota, etc.) at the middle or bottom of the salary ranges, but, they haven't won it. Florida proved that you can out-and-out buy a championship. They bought a team, won the championship and then sold it. The Yankees and Red Sox should feel shame when they don't win it, considering the advantage they have. Spend tons on a 1st Baseman that doesn't work out, no big deal, get rid of him and buy another. Teams like the Pirates have been just as big of a problem. They have saved their money in the past to turn a profit. This is broken and really takes away from the game, but, I don't see it ever changing, as the players have too much power now.

 

2) The Designated Hitter needs to be removed, in my opinion, for the reasons that I stated above. I understand other's opinions, but, both leagues should go one way or the other, but, I would prefer to remove the DH. The NL has a distinct disadvantage when playing in AL stadiums, as the AL teams are built with a designated hitter in mind. The NL's slight advantage of having pitchers who get at-bats is hardly the same, as they rarely hit anyway. Their batting does add the strategy to the game that I love.

 

3) The division are a mess. How are the Pirates not in a division with the Phillies. I agree that they need to also find a way to get an equal number of teams in each division.

 

4) The schedule sucks. I realize you should play your division more, but, playing divisional teams 18 times, and non-divisional teams 5 or 6 times is ridiculous.

 

While I enjoy the strategy part of the game let's not kid ourselves...this isn't in-game rocket science. I enjoy watching players play MUCH more than I enjoy watching the manager make the next substitution. And watching a pitcher bat sucks. He hasn't had to learn to bat because he is a specialist. Maybe we should ask all NFL players to be two-way players because that's how it used to be. Evolution my friend...

 

 

ETA: I completely agree on your other points. Salary Cap should be a must. Funny how revenue sharing will keep some small market teams quiet but it's absolutley ridiculous.

Edited by Puddy

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While I enjoy the strategy part of the game let's not kid ourselves...
. I enjoy watching players play MUCH more than I enjoy watching the manager make the next substitution. And watching a pitcher bat sucks. He hasn't had to learn to bat because he is a specialist. Maybe we should ask all NFL players to be two-way players because that's how it used to be. Evolution my friend...

 

 

ETA: I completely agree on your other points. Salary Cap should be a must. Funny how revenue sharing will keep some small market teams quiet but it's absolutley ridiculous.

 

fixed.

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I agree

+1. Pitchers batting is a ridiculous anachronism that leads to injury, is an added burden on the guy who is already more involved in the game than any other player and, more often than not, is an easy out, not to mention the intentional walks to get to the pitcher.

 

The NL is a bastion of old farts defending a long since useless tradition.

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i agree with riki

 

 

+1. Pitchers batting is a ridiculous anachronism that leads to injury, is an added burden on the guy who is already more involved in the game than any other player and, more often than not, is an easy out, not to mention the intentional walks to get to the pitcher.

 

 

hence the chess of nl baseball........... ph or let a hot pitcher bat? runners on? how many outs?

 

hitters that don't play the field= bleh.

 

 

maybe go to an 8 man line-up and satisfy/piss off everyone?

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i agree with riki

 

 

 

 

 

hence the chess of nl baseball........... ph or let a hot pitcher bat? runners on? how many outs?

 

hitters that don't play the field= bleh.

 

 

maybe go to an 8 man line-up and satisfy/piss off everyone?

 

One of my favorite video games is MLB The Show. When I play as an American League team, it simply isn't as fun. There aren't any tough decision to make. In the NL, you need to play the chess game, and I enjoy it.

 

I'd agree with Whomper, Puddy & Ursa, but, then we'd all be stupid. :wacko:

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i hate the f'n DH with a passion. a lot of big league pitchers can handle the bat quite well. even if it's just bunting, or hitting to the right side of the field to advance the runner. that is a pitcher skill that translates to wins, same as defense. and yes, the NL game is infinitely more interesting from a strategic standpoint. you don't want to watch pitchers try and hit? well, you probably don't want to watch dirk nowitski try to play defense either, but it is part of the f'ing game. :wacko:

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They have to do it this way because the AL West is just always so loaded, it wouldn't be fair to make them beat another team that is so tremendous.

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I now see why the rules haven't ever changed...each of us vote with what we grew up with.

 

We're as bad as the left wing and right wing extremists on these boards. :wacko:

Edited by Puddy

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In the NL, you need to play the chess game, and I enjoy it.

Chess also isn't that exciting to watch...even the purists realized that and added a clock at some point.

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I now see why the rules haven't ever changed...each of us vote with what we grew up with.

 

We're as bad as the left wing and right wing extremists on these boards. :wacko:

 

 

growing up, i went to both giants and a's games..... nl was more strategically intriguing.

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I now see why the rules haven't ever changed...each of us vote with what we grew up with.

 

not really, in my case. I grew up without a local big league team. the denver AAA team fed the milwaukee brewers (then AL, so they had a DH). I played baseball since I was pretty young, and as soon as I was old enough to understand the differences between the two leagues, I immediately swung to the "DH sucks" side of the pendulum. because it does. and so the dodgers, card and braves (WTBS) were the teams I followed until the rockies were born. I was never so relieved as when there was lots of talk about us being in line for expansion and I found out we were getting an NL team.

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Okay let's forget the DH argument...

 

Can we all agree on the idiocy of 6 teams in one division and 4 teams in another? How about salary cap?

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One last point on DH, you are missing the other side. If you cannot field, run, catch and throw, then you are not playing baseball. A player who only hits and does not play in the field should not call himself a baseball player. Why even have a DH? Why not just have 8 guys in the line-up, all 8 playing in the field? Why even have a DH? Forget about the pitcher hitting, look at the AL side of the DH. Why does 40 year old Reggie Jackson get to keep playing when he cannot even shag a fly ball? Get rid of the DH and either go to 8 hitters or go back to the pitcher hitting. IMO

 

And on the NL side, try throwing in a 1-0 game and see if your manager will let you hit b/c he still wants your arm in the game or he wants to have a better hitter for one AB. The NL pitcher who throws complete games is superior to a AL pitcher doing the same, logically.

Edited by Scooby's Hubby

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Puddy, I am for 16 teams and 4 divisions with only the division winner making the playoffs. BUT each team should play more games within its own division. It makes no sense for teams to play each other equally if you are only gonna let the divsion winner into the playoffs, when there is a second place team with more wins than a division winner.

 

To go the other way, maybe they should just have no divisions, just National and American Leagues and take the top teams, that way they all play each other equally and it is most fair. I really do not know why you play everyone equally but then have divisions,which is why we started the whole wildcard thing.

Edited by Scooby's Hubby

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Puddy, I am for 16 teams and 4 divisions with only the division winner making the playoffs. BUT each team should play more games within its own division. It makes no sense for teams to play each other equally if you are only gonna let the divsion winner into the playoffs, when there is a second place team with more wins than a division winner.

 

To go the other way, maybe they should just have no divisions, just National and American Leagues and take the top teams, that way they all play each other equally and it is most fair. I really do not know why you play everyone equally but then have divisions,which is why we started the whole wildcard thing.

 

MORE games withing it's own division ? They already play 18 games within their division and 5/6 against non-divisional teams in the same league. I certainly don't want them playing more divisional games. The Phillies used to be the Pirates biggest rival in the 80's, and now they play one series in Pittsburgh and one in Philly. It sucks.

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MORE games withing it's own division ? They already play 18 games within their division and 5/6 against non-divisional teams in the same league. I certainly don't want them playing more divisional games. The Phillies used to be the Pirates biggest rival in the 80's, and now they play one series in Pittsburgh and one in Philly. It sucks.

If you are going to only let division winners into the playoffs, then they must play their division rivalries more than anyone else (not more than is scheduled now). If you throw away divisions and take top 4 teams then let everyone play each other equally. MORE was not meant that they need to play division "more than they do now". Sorry for confusion. :wacko:

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If you are going to only let division winners into the playoffs, then they must play their division rivalries more than anyone else (not more than is scheduled now). If you throw away divisions and take top 4 teams then let everyone play each other equally. MORE was not meant that they need to play division "more than they do now". Sorry for confusion. :wacko:

 

Got it. I agree.

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One last point on DH, you are missing the other side. If you cannot field, run, catch and throw, then you are not playing baseball. A player who only hits and does not play in the field should not call himself a baseball player. Why even have a DH? Why not just have 8 guys in the line-up, all 8 playing in the field? Why even have a DH? Forget about the pitcher hitting, look at the AL side of the DH. Why does 40 year old Reggie Jackson get to keep playing when he cannot even shag a fly ball? Get rid of the DH and either go to 8 hitters or go back to the pitcher hitting. IMO

 

And on the NL side, try throwing in a 1-0 game and see if your manager will let you hit b/c he still wants your arm in the game or he wants to have a better hitter for one AB. The NL pitcher who throws complete games is superior to a AL pitcher doing the same, logically.

Following this argument to it's logical conclusion, shouldn't all the hitters pitch?

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Following this argument to it's logical conclusion, shouldn't all the hitters pitch?

 

that is not the argument's logical conclusion. the argument is that baseball is a two-way sport, everyone plays offense and defense. pitching is one defensive role. catching is another. playing center field is another. and on offense, everyone hits, everyone runs the bases, etc....unless the manager wants to burn a sub. that is how the game was conceived and played since day one. the strategy of baseball comes in managing tradeoffs. some positions are relatively less demanding defensively, and those tend to be stocked with offensive talent (1B, LF). other positions are far more important for their defense (pitching obviously most of all, then C, SS).

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that is not the argument's logical conclusion. the argument is that baseball is a two-way sport, everyone plays offense and defense. pitching is one defensive role. catching is another. playing center field is another. and on offense, everyone hits, everyone runs the bases, etc....unless the manager wants to burn a sub. that is how the game was conceived and played since day one. the strategy of baseball comes in managing tradeoffs. some positions are relatively less demanding defensively, and those tend to be stocked with offensive talent (1B, LF). other positions are far more important for their defense (pitching obviously most of all, then C, SS).

This is kind of like saying Wilt Chamberlain could never be listed on the short list of best basketball players ever because he isn't even capable of bringing the ball up and creating his own shot. I do think that players that play defensively deserve more credit than DH's do, especially at HOF time, and history has shown us that this is reflected. I'm really torn on this one. I love the purity of the NL game, but the bottom of the lineup is flat-out BORING. Watching a pitcher try to hit is just about as unwatchable as sports can be. If the pitchers could hit at all, this is an easy argument. As a baseball fan, I'd rather watch Edgar Martinez hit than Freddy Garcia. I'm also a little biased because when growing up, I usually played with kids older than me, and therefore I had to find a way to get into the lineup. I probably spent more time in my career playing DH than any other position, and was a DH pretty exclusively in college. There is something to getting a pure hitter in the lineup, even if he isn't your best defensive option. Not saying it's perfect, but there is something to it. Guys that can flat-out hit the ball should still have some kind of spot in the game.

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