I really hate the imbalance between the NL and AL

[Scooby's Hubby]

Following this argument to it's logical conclusion, shouldn't all the hitters pitch?

there was a decision made with Babe Ruth he stayed a hitter even though he was an exceptional pitcher

 

I think at all levels below Professional you do see players pitching and fielding...

 

Definately in little league, high school and even some in college. of course, the ceceil fielders of the world won't be pitchers ...

[keggerz]

This is kind of like saying Wilt Chamberlain could never be listed on the short list of best basketball players ever because he isn't even capable of bringing the ball up and creating his own shot. I do think that players that play defensively deserve more credit than DH's do, especially at HOF time, and history has shown us that this is reflected. I'm really torn on this one. I love the purity of the NL game, but the bottom of the lineup is flat-out BORING. Watching a pitcher try to hit is just about as unwatchable as sports can be. If the pitchers could hit at all, this is an easy argument. As a baseball fan, I'd rather watch Edgar Martinez hit than Freddy Garcia. I'm also a little biased because when growing up, I usually played with kids older than me, and therefore I had to find a way to get into the lineup. I probably spent more time in my career playing DH than any other position, and was a DH pretty exclusively in college. There is something to getting a pure hitter in the lineup, even if he isn't your best defensive option. Not saying it's perfect, but there is something to it. Guys that can flat-out hit the ball but can't play defense should still have some kind of spot in the game.

fixed, and they do...it's called pinch hitting (and if they are that much of a liability in the field then they probably don't have that job either, or shouldn't)

Edited May 21, 2011 by keggerz

[Scooby's Hubby]

fixed, and they do...it's called pinch hitting (and if they are that much of a liability in the field then they probably don't have that job either, or shouldn't)

And his name was Candy Maldonado

[keggerz]

19 inning game in Philly last nite and each team had a reliever bat out of necessity and you know what it was great and didn't detract from the game at all....and then today with the game tied 4-4 Cliff Lee sluggs about a 400' ground rule double to center and knocked in 2 because the bases were loaded...oh and he had another hit and RBI in the game too (2-4 3 RBI's)

 

oh and also, because there wasn't a DH in the 19 inning game you get to see Ruiz move to 3rd base(after catching 18 innings) and bust a hump chasing a foul that he dove on the tarp to try and catch...all the while our 2nd baseman shut down the heart of the Reds lineup in the top of the 19th...and even if we would have lost I think it was fantastic and compelling baseball

[Brent]

19 inning game in Philly last nite and each team had a reliever bat out of necessity and you know what it was great and didn't detract from the game at all....and then today with the game tied 4-4 Cliff Lee sluggs about a 400' ground rule double to center and knocked in 2 because the bases were loaded...oh and he had another hit and RBI in the game too (2-4 3 RBI's)

 

oh and also, because there wasn't a DH in the 19 inning game you get to see Ruiz move to 3rd base(after catching 18 innings) and bust a hump chasing a foul that he dove on the tarp to try and catch...all the while our 2nd baseman shut down the heart of the Reds lineup in the top of the 19th...and even if we would have lost I think it was fantastic and compelling baseball

 

 

Lee had 1 RBI in 90 career Abs, before todays 3 RBI. That aint entertaining to me.

 

 

And how fantastic is it really watching a 2B take the mound in the 19th ing.

 

 

Watching 99% of pitchers hit is hard to watch. I think the game would be better/entertaining if both leagues had a DH. David Ortiz deserves more than 1 AB a game. He is much more entertaining to watch hit, than Cliff Lee.

 

BTW, not all hitters pitch, so not all pitchers need to hit.

Edited May 27, 2011 by Brent

[Pope Flick]

Well....it's no fun watching pitchers hit. Sure it adds an element of 'strategy' for the manager but pitchers hitting flat out doesn't make sense any longer. Pitchers are groomed as specialists way earlier than reaching the major leagues so they don't spend much time learning to hit any longer. Why force them to at the higher level. Sometimes 'tradition' can get in the way of progress IMO.

 

 

Bogus. Pitchers can hit they simply don't practice because half of them play with that whack ass DH rule. Look at the line for Carlos Zambranon. He's been a NL mainstay his entire career has kicked in 20 ringers and went 3 for 3 just last week. The implementation of the DH rule led to pitchers stop attempting to practice not the other way around. IMO - step on the field step up to the plate!

[Scooby's Hubby]

Link for sortable pitcher's hitting stats, below. Dammed Zambrano is hitting .375 this year and has 5 runs off of 9 hits Now that is helping your own cause. His ERA is 4.59 BUT he is 5W-2L and 4 no decisions. You have to think his hitting has helped his record somewhat.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/sortable_player_s...;sortByStat=AVG

 

Ankiel is a good story. Most fans do not see pitchers come up from high school to pro's. Alot of these guys can hit. Plus, a pitcher is just that much better if he can hit than one who can't. I truly believe that the DH rule is sad and awful , but it is what it is...

 

... it is just that MLB is so specialized, there is a player in your bullpen or in your dugout for every situation.

[Azazello1313]

... it is just that MLB is so specialized, there is a player in your bullpen or in your dugout for every situation.

 

and in real baseball, that extreme specialization comes at a price, a constant evaluation of tradeoffs.

[delusions of grandeur]

Man, I thought this thread would be about the stupid ratings ploy to have exhibition game decide World Series homefield advantage

 

Aside from the absurdity of the ploy, it's just been a joke up until recently, expecting the NL to be able to compete with the big pockets in the AL, or else lose the entire league's postseason advantage. This was probably the last straw in killing my interest in the MLB.

 

BTW, not all hitters pitch, so not all pitchers need to hit.

That's like saying "not all players are first basemen, so not all first basemen are players". It simply doesn't follow. A better analogy is "playing baseball entails both fielding and batting, therefore it makes alot more sense to have them all hit and bat, rather than to rely on a fatass who can't field to bat for them".

 

Sure it may lead to higher scoring to the delight of the instant-grafication American, but you cannot understate how much strategy goes into something like the double-switch in particular. Things like this were what made guys like Bobby Cox magicians. They didn't just sit back and leave it up to players to only do the things they were good at. They actually have to manage a lineup, work with their pitchers to move runners over when need be, and shuffle all of them around to suit the shifts of the game.

 

Perhaps an overstatement, but I look at it as the NL being more team/strategy-oriented, while the AL is more individual/stat-oriented. Nothing wrong with either one, which probably reveals why many of our preferences tend to align with our home-team and experiences here.

[keggerz]

Man, I thought this thread would be about the stupid ratings ploy to have exhibition game decide World Series homefield advantage

 

Aside from the absurdity of the ploy, it's just been a joke up until recently, expecting the NL to be able to compete with the big pockets in the AL, or else lose the entire league's postseason advantage. This was probably the last straw in killing my interest in the MLB.

 

 

That's like saying "not all players are first basemen, so not all first basemen are players". It simply doesn't follow. A better analogy is "playing baseball entails both fielding and batting, therefore it makes alot more sense to have them all hit and bat, rather than to rely on a fatass who can't field to bat for them".

 

Sure it may lead to higher scoring to the delight of the instant-grafication American, but you cannot understate how much strategy goes into something like the double-switch in particular. Things like this were what made guys like Bobby Cox magicians. They didn't just sit back and leave it up to players to only do the things they were good at. They actually have to manage a lineup, work with their pitchers to move runners over when need be, and shuffle all of them around to suit the shifts of the game.

 

Perhaps an overstatement, but I look at it as the NL being more team/strategy-oriented, while the AL is more individual/stat-oriented. Nothing wrong with either one, which probably reveals why many of our preferences tend to align with our home-team and experiences here.

Well said

[Scooby's Hubby]

Man, I thought this thread would be about the stupid ratings ploy to have exhibition game decide World Series homefield advantage

 

Aside from the absurdity of the ploy, it's just been a joke up until recently, expecting the NL to be able to compete with the big pockets in the AL, or else lose the entire league's postseason advantage. This was probably the last straw in killing my interest in the MLB.

 

 

That's like saying "not all players are first basemen, so not all first basemen are players". It simply doesn't follow. A better analogy is "playing baseball entails both fielding and batting, therefore it makes alot more sense to have them all hit and bat, rather than to rely on a fatass who can't field to bat for them".

 

Sure it may lead to higher scoring to the delight of the instant-grafication American, but you cannot understate how much strategy goes into something like the double-switch in particular. Things like this were what made guys like Bobby Cox magicians. They didn't just sit back and leave it up to players to only do the things they were good at. They actually have to manage a lineup, work with their pitchers to move runners over when need be, and shuffle all of them around to suit the shifts of the game.

 

Perhaps an overstatement, but I look at it as the NL being more team/strategy-oriented, while the AL is more individual/stat-oriented. Nothing wrong with either one, which probably reveals why many of our preferences tend to align with our home-team and experiences here.

 

 

Yes, thank you. Even Fernando Valenzuela could hit Remember when Lasorda used him as a pinch hitter?

Edited June 5, 2011 by Scooby's Hubby

[keggerz]

Yes, thank you. Even Fernando Valenzuela could hit Remember when Lasorda used him as a pinch hitter?

the Nats used Jason Marquis as a PH the other day.

[Puddy]

Okay there are exceptions to every rule. In 2008, batting average for NL pitchers was .140. That is exciting stuff. While I do enjoy the additional strategy needed in the NL, I don't enjoy it enough to watch .140 hitters all the time.

 

Oh and this thread started out as how crazy it is that the AL West only has 4 teams while the NL Central has 6 teams, not as an argument for/against the DH.

[Bier Meister]

Okay there are exceptions to every rule. In 2008, batting average for NL pitchers was .140. That is exciting stuff. While I do enjoy the additional strategy needed in the NL, I don't enjoy it enough to watch .140 hitters all the time.

 

imo the intrigue is with particular situations that have managers scratching their heads about whether to leave a pitcher in or not..knowing that pitchers are not fantastic at the plate. even executing a sac bunt becomes a big deal.

 

Oh and this thread started out as how crazy it is that the AL West only has 4 teams while the NL Central has 6 teams, not as an argument for/against the DH.

 

i don't think there was any opposition to that assertion.

Edited June 6, 2011 by Bier Meister

[Menudo]

Okay there are exceptions to every rule. In 2008, batting average for NL pitchers was .140. That is exciting stuff. While I do enjoy the additional strategy needed in the NL, I don't enjoy it enough to watch .140 hitters all the time.

 

Oh and this thread started out as how crazy it is that the AL West only has 4 teams while the NL Central has 6 teams, not as an argument for/against the DH.

 

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