NOS RB Update

[rajncajn]

i think you're predicting a return to the 2009 numbers (right?) -(where no one back had any special fantasy value), which will be difficult to repeat....-and this time with one back (Ingram) combining all the rushing stats of the combined 2009 backs (or most). - i'm suggesting this is a bit of a reach.

So you've gone from "they run the ball very little" to Ingram won't get the lions share of the carries? OK, that's fine... That's a validated opinion & you could very well be right. I'll be honest, I'm just not real sure how the Saints will end up using Ingram, Thomas, Sproles & Ivory once he's back. Barring injury, it's very well possible Payton plans to rotate all 4. But in the end, I'm of the opinion that Ingram will rise to the top and in the event of an injury or an extended injury from Ivory, it could be sooner rather than later. When you consider possible fantasy playoff implications that could be huge.

[hooknladder]

So you've gone from "they run the ball very little" to Ingram won't get the lions share of the carries? OK, that's fine... That's a validated opinion & you could very well be right. I'll be honest, I'm just not real sure how the Saints will end up using Ingram, Thomas, Sproles & Ivory once he's back. Barring injury, it's very well possible Payton plans to rotate all 4. But in the end, I'm of the opinion that Ingram will rise to the top and in the event of an injury or an extended injury from Ivory, it could be sooner rather than later. When you consider possible fantasy playoff implications that could be huge.

 

 

the Saints don't use a workhorse back....(yes,"they run the ball very little") i"m just trying to nail you down to a productive fantasy back.

-not a productive rush offensive....-but a back we can use in fantasy football.

Edited August 10, 2011 by hooknladder

[piratesownninjas]

the Saints don't use a workhorse back....(yes,"they run the ball very little") i"m just trying to nail you down to a productive fantasy back.

-not a productive rush offensive....-but a back we can use in fantasy football.

And Sean Payton has never had a runner with the talent and skill set of Ingram. Round and round we go.

And don't give me Duece as an example. He was coming off of a significant injury. So we can't go off of past performances to indicate future results. It's a whole new game. The Saints have a new weapon.

I'm in the group that thinks he'll be so good they won't be able to take him off the field much.

[rajncajn]

the Saints don't use a workhorse back....(yes,"they run the ball very little") i"m just trying to nail you down to a productive fantasy back.

-not a productive rush offensive....-but a back we can use in fantasy football.

As I just said & pon clarified, I believe it will be Ingram, I think since Deuce left... or likely since he got there (he wasn't sold on Deuce when he came, but was won over) He's been looking for a consistent producer at RB. Bush was never intended for that role, PT is great in the screen game & when he has space, Ivory looked to be the more complete package as a runner, but still isn't completely proven, isn't as adept at pass protection and not great as a receiver. Ingram can do all those things & do them very well.

[hooknladder]

......so, -Ingram is a no. 1?

[tazinib1]

Stop from the hood and ladders. Seriously...the above enslaved and so is the below

[i_am_the_swammi]

i think you're predicting a return to the 2009 numbers (right?) -(where no one back had any special fantasy value), which will be difficult to repeat....-

 

PT finished 18th in standard PPR formats...ahead of the likes of Turner, Mendenhall, Tomlinson, Forte, and Barber (all RBs likely drafted ahead of him). Not sure you can say PT didn't have fantasy value when he was about as solid a RB2 as one could hope for.

 

FWIW..I see Ingram as a solid high RB2 this year, who will likely finish around 14th-16th overall. His ability to pick up blitzes he has never seen will play a big factor in how much faith Payton has in keeping him in the game on passing downs. They have a back in PT that already has that ability, and with his talents, I see PT still having a large role in this pass-first offense...at least early in the year. But if Ingram learns quickly, and becomes a complete RB sooner than later...he could dazzle this year and indeed produce a top-10 finish.

[piratesownninjas]

......so, -Ingram is a no. 1?

I think he will be.

 

Clearly Peterson, Foster, Charles, Chris Johnson and Ray Rice, along with Lesean McCoy are in a higher tier, but I see no reason why he can't be right up there with MJD, Steven Jackson or Michael Turner. After those top 6 every back has question marks.

I think Ingram will be somewhere between the 8-14th RB at the end of the season. He has everything you want... Three down ability, excellent vision, goal line monster, and he's on a potent offense.

MJD is coming off a significant knee injury

Steven Jackson is wearing down.

Michael Turner looks like he's about to fall off a cliff to me.

 

So yeah, why not?

[SLAYER]

I think he will be.

 

Clearly Peterson, Foster, Charles, Chris Johnson and Ray Rice, along with Lesean McCoy are in a higher tier, but I see no reason why he can't be right up there with MJD, Steven Jackson or Michael Turner. After those top 6 every back has question marks.

I think Ingram will be somewhere between the 8-14th RB at the end of the season. He has everything you want... Three down ability, excellent vision, goal line monster, and he's on a potent offense.

MJD is coming off a significant knee injury

Steven Jackson is wearing down.

Michael Turner looks like he's about to fall off a cliff to me.

 

So yeah, why not?

He definately outperforms MJD this year. even J. Stewert.

[BearBroncos]

I think he will be.

 

Clearly Peterson, Foster, Charles, Chris Johnson and Ray Rice, along with Lesean McCoy are in a higher tier, but I see no reason why he can't be right up there with MJD, Steven Jackson or Michael Turner. After those top 6 every back has question marks.

I think Ingram will be somewhere between the 8-14th RB at the end of the season. He has everything you want... Three down ability, excellent vision, goal line monster, and he's on a potent offense.

MJD is coming off a significant knee injury

Steven Jackson is wearing down.

Michael Turner looks like he's about to fall off a cliff to me.

 

So yeah, why not?

 

Pretty high expectations for a player who hasn't played a single NFL game yet.

[i_am_the_swammi]

He has everything you want... Three down ability, excellent vision, goal line monster, and he's on a potent offense.

 

So yeah, why not?

 

Well, as I mentioned, defensive schemes in the pros are significatnly more complicated than college. If he has a tough time picking up blitz schemes, and Brees is getting crushed, he may not have the "three down ability" you mention above.

 

it may take him 4-5 games to get comfy with the pro schemes....and really, why would the Saints just throw him in there Week 1 when they have a capable PT to handle that role on passing downs?

 

Those 4-5 games (or more) of not being an every-down RB will likely cost him a shot at top-10 fantasy stats.

[Pope Flick]

I'm curious how you guys seem to think Ingram is a 3 down back who is fine at pass protection when he's only had a week and a half of camp?

[lawofmurphy]

I'm curious how you guys seem to think Ingram is a 3 down back who is fine at pass protection when he's only had a week and a half of camp?

 

HE PLAYED IN THE SEC

 

DUH!

[hooknladder]

PT finished 18th in standard PPR formats...ahead of the likes of Turner, Mendenhall, Tomlinson, Forte, and Barber (all RBs likely drafted ahead of him). Not sure you can say PT didn't have fantasy value when he was about as solid a RB2 as one could hope for.

 

 

 

 

Really?.........793/6 39/302/2. 9 games in the last 2 years. -i'm hoping for more than that at RB2.

[hooknladder]

...o.k.

 

so i'm putting Pirates, Taz and Slayer for no.1 and Swami no. 2

Edited August 11, 2011 by hooknladder

[darin3]

There are a lot of drugs being done by folks in this thread.

[i_am_the_swammi]

Really?.........793/6 39/302/2. -i'm hoping for more than that at RB2.

 

I guess if you are playing in 6 or 8 team leagues, yeah, you would want more from a RB2.

 

For most of us that play in 10 teamers or better, 1100 yards, 39 receptions, and 8 TDs is pretty decent..and that was coming off a 900 yard, 12 TD rookie season.

[hooknladder]

I guess if you are playing in 6 or 8 team leagues, yeah, you would want more from a RB2.

 

For most of us that play in 10 teamers or better, 1100 yards, 39 receptions, and 8 TDs is pretty decent..and that was coming off a 900 yard, 12 TD rookie season.

 

 

OUCH!.=- i also play in a ten team (head-to-head) league, (aside from a 20y/o total point, non-head to head league)

 

 

 

 

..............at the very least Swam you were clever enough to go top 20, - not top 10 on Ingram.

Edited August 11, 2011 by hooknladder

[hooknladder]

There are a lot of drugs being done by folks in this thread.

 

 

your right. ..............(but are'nt drugs legal now?)

[Deathpig]

Just gonna throw out there that since 2006, the Saints have only drafted 3 RBs: Reggie Bush, Antonio Pittman, and now Ingram. I'm going to believe that they didn't use their first round pick for a RB that's going to sit on the sidelines because they have Chris Ivory, Darren Sproles, and a banged up Pierre Thomas.

 

They gave 150+ carries to Reggie Bush (he who could only muster 3.5 YPC)-- Ingram is going to get his chances. So, the two real questions should be:

 

1) Will Ingram succeed running the ball as part of one of the best offenses in the NFL? If no-names like Ivory and Thomas can succeed, I have to believe that Ingram can.

2) Will he be able to handle pass protection and avoid injury/fatigue to maximize his time on the field? This one is trickier. Most rookie running backs struggle with pass protection and wear down as the season progresses.

 

My guess is that he ends up getting more like 15ish carries a game, and at that amount his value is going to be based on what he can do with them (are they more at the goal-line, or between the 20s? Can he break 20+ yard runs consistantly enough to be a scoring threat from midfield?).

 

There's no way he trumps the top 5 or 6 RBs, and I don't think you can put him at the top/mid of tier two, but he has acceptable risk to slot him somewhere at the bottom of tier two or the top of tier 3.

[SLAYER]

...o.k.

 

so i'm putting Pirates, Taz and Slayer for no.1 and Swami no. 2

 

I didn't say top ten, just that he out performs Stewert and MJD. say 15-20

[piratesownninjas]

the Saints don't use a workhorse back....(yes,"they run the ball very little") i"m just trying to nail you down to a productive fantasy back.

-not a productive rush offensive....-but a back we can use in fantasy football.

 

 

Pretty high expectations for a player who hasn't played a single NFL game yet.

 

 

I'm curious how you guys seem to think Ingram is a 3 down back who is fine at pass protection when he's only had a week and a half of camp?

 

 

...o.k.

 

so i'm putting Pirates, Taz and Slayer for no.1 and Swami no. 2

I said it's more than possible. He's very capable of getting inside the top ten. I'm expecting somewhere between 8-15. Quit trolling. Questions were asked and people have weighed in with statistics backing up there opinion.

 

And my answers to every quote below:

 

Matt Forte RB4 as a rookie in 2008

Steve Slaton RB6 as a rookie

Chris Johnson RB11 as a rookie

Adrian Peterson RB3 as a rookie

Marshawn Lynch RB12 as a rookie

Maurice Jones-Drew RB8 as a rookie

Joseph Addai RB11 as a rookie.

 

The only running back that I thought more of as a rookie was Peterson. I firmly believe he's the best rookie running back since Peterson. Extremely powerful, great vision, patient, can catch, plays through nagging injuries, and is a willing blocker.

The issue with rookies not blocking isn't so much knowing where the defensive player is coming from, but a willingness to get nasty and put a block on a guy. Ingram has that nastiness.

 

The three years that the saints have thrown the ball more that 60% of the time they've either missed the playoffs, or were eliminated in the first round.

The other two years they went to the NFCC game, or won the super bowl. RBBC isn't Sean Payton's philosophy, it was out of necessity.

 

He's in a ridiculous offense with a top five quarterback, and maybe the best o line in the NFC.

[piratesownninjas]

Well, as I mentioned, defensive schemes in the pros are significatnly more complicated than college. If he has a tough time picking up blitz schemes, and Brees is getting crushed, he may not have the "three down ability" you mention above.

 

it may take him 4-5 games to get comfy with the pro schemes....and really, why would the Saints just throw him in there Week 1 when they have a capable PT to handle that role on passing downs?

 

Those 4-5 games (or more) of not being an every-down RB will likely cost him a shot at top-10 fantasy stats.

He may not, be he's more than capable to be that three down guy. While I'm not saying the SEC is the NFL, it did give him a head start in regards to picking up defenses. He's a willing blocker, and is built to be a good one. I also think his dad playing in the NFL, and being around football since birth gives him another advantage. His build, willingness, and football smarts lead me to believe he'll pick up blitz schemes much quicker than any rookie we've seen in a while.

If it takes him 4-5 games like you're saying, I still think he gets the majority of the carries, and all of the redzone work. So he's more than capable of finishing in the top 10. I think you're taking my earlier post out of context. It was asked if he could be a top 10 back and I said why not. I think he finishes high end around the no.8 back. I do expect him to finish somewhere between 8-14th in RB's.

[tazinib1]

...o.k.

 

so i'm putting Pirates, Taz and Slayer for no.1 and Swami no. 2

 

[rajncajn]

He's in a ridiculous offense with a top five quarterback, and maybe the best o line in the NFC.

I was with you until there. I agree in the interior, but our tackles have been sub-par. Drew masks a lot of that with his pocket presence and ability to scan the field quickly as well as the screen & play action game (which we missed last year). But we could certainly use some better play on the outside.