BeeR Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 According to who? All of the beat guys that I follow on twitter haven't said anything along those lines. Everything about Grant has been about how quick he's hitting the holes and that he hasn't lost any explosiveness. Starks has been mixed, depending on the day. He tweaked an ankle, blown a blitz pickup, and put the ball on the ground. *If* there is any sort a committee approach, Grant would see 65% Starks 20% and Kuhn picking up the rest. Of course Green will get a few touches as the year progresses, but I think people forget how productive Grant is... Maybe because he doesn't put up massive stats in single games, but he's always good for 70-80 yards and a TD most weeks. I also think the James Starks hype-train has gotten out of control. People talk about him as if he's the next Earl Campbell. Starks has potential, but has a long, long way to go. He doesn't make big plays, he doesn't get a lot of extra yards, he's not a threat on third down. He's got a ways to go. Thinking that he's going to take over for a healthy Grant is crazy. I'd love to be wrong, but just because you have the same build as Adrain Peterson it doesn't mean that you're the next Peterson. I think people have fallen in love with the feel good story about the Packers struggling with the run all year, then a sixth round pick comes in to save the day during the playoffs. Just what I've seen with my two eyes, and read from pressers from MM, and following the beat guys on twitter. OK, my bad, was just an impression, not really up on it. Then wtph on the roster cut rumours? Just typical franchise/HC doublespeak? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 (edited) Wow. A whole lot of people making some bold statements here. There also seems to be a whole lot of ignoring that Starks was injured for a portion of last year - an injury dating back to college - and did not getting activated from the PUP list until November 9th of last year. He missed all of last year's OTAs, training camp, and preseason, and was not running until the end of September. He then got sat down after coming back because he hadn't learned pro work habits in all that time he missed. Despite all these facts, GB still rode him as their RB1 on their SB run. Now Starks has committed to a change in diet that has seen him add another 8 lbs of good weight where he hasn't lost any quickness. He seems to be not only learning how to be a pro, but he's also going to get the training he didn't last season. It's also well known that McCarthy raves about the kid and sees a future stud in him. If you saw his college body or work you'd know why. The talent and ability are there. Underestimate him at your own risk. Edited August 25, 2011 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeohiostate Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Wow. A whole lot of people making some bold statements here. There also seems to be a whole lot of ignoring that Starks was injured for a portion of last year - an injury dating back to college - and that despite not getting activated from the PUP list until November 9th of last year. He missed all of last year's OTAs, training camp, and preseason, and was not running until the end of September. He then got sat down after coming back because he hadn't learned pro work habits in all that time he missed. Despite all these facts, GB still rode him as their RB1 on their SB run. Now Starks has committed to a change in diet that has seen him add another 8 lbs of good weight where he hasn't lost any quickness. He seems to be not only learning how to be a pro, but he's also going to get the training he didn't last season. It's also well known that McCarthy raves about the kid and sees a future stud in him. If you saw his college body or work you'd know why. The talent and ability are there. Underestimate him at your own risk. What training camp ? hasn't he been injured most of it and missed out again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturphy Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 It's also well known that McCarthy raves about the kid and sees a future stud in him. While I don't think Starks is the long term answer, we were addressing Grant's impact this season, not next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 While I don't think Starks is the long term answer, we were addressing Grant's impact this season, not next. Wow Thanks. I thought we were preparing for 2012 FF drafts in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Once Grant renegotiated his contract and it became GUARANTEED that sealed the deal that Grant is the starter this year. Starks will get opportunities, but Grant is the guy to ride here. If TT was going to waive him/ not use him, he wouldnt have guaranteed the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 What training camp ? hasn't he been injured most of it and missed out again Okay, I'll type slowly. Starks had no reps at RB last season until the regular season was well underway. He could not get in and learn plays by running them until well into the season, when non-starter reps are limited for obvious reasons. This season he is getting reps during preseason, and can learn plays by actually participating under learning practice situations. He missed last week only - from when he hurt his ankle in the PS week 1 game through the PS week 2 game. Did you understand it this time, or do I need to get out my crayons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturphy Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Wow Thanks. I thought we were preparing for 2012 FF drafts in this thread. You are talking about him as a future stud... what's your outlook for this year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Once Grant renegotiated his contract and it became GUARANTEED that sealed the deal that Grant is the starter this year. Starks will get opportunities, but Grant is the guy to ride here. If TT was going to waive him/ not use him, he wouldnt have guaranteed the money. $2.5M is locked-up guaranteed starter money for an NFL RB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 You are talking about him as a future stud... what's your outlook for this year? No, McCarthy was talking about him as a future stud. You do know that as of this date, the future includes all of the 2011 regular season, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeohiostate Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Okay, I'll type slowly. Starks had no reps at RB last season until the regular season was well underway. He could not get in and learn plays by running them until well into the season, when non-starter reps are limited for obvious reasons. This season he is getting reps during preseason, and can learn plays by actually participating under learning practice situations. He missed last week only - from when he hurt his ankle in the PS week 1 game through the PS week 2 game. Did you understand it this time, or do I need to get out my crayons? Read it fine the first time .........but he's also going to get the training he didn't last season. again.....what training camp...he's had none this season again , is still dinged up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Wow, a lot of Grant owners are getting their panties in a bunch in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 OK, my bad, was just an impression, not really up on it. Then wtph on the roster cut rumours? Just typical franchise/HC doublespeak? Pretty simple really... Most teams don't carry 5 backs, yet GB has 5 of them (Grant, Starks, Green, Kuhn, and Nance for special teams), that they'd presumably like to keep on roster. However, it's purely speculation with nothing to back it up besides that, so yes, IF they were happy with all of the backs behind Grant, then they COULD release or trade him. But it's reading entirely way too much into this to assume that this means that they are in fact ready to hand Starks & Green the reins to the offense. In fact, them guaranteeing Grant's reduced salary for this year shows that it's more likely that they'll be starting Grant unless/until he falters this year, or Starks ends up being leaps and bounds better. However, they have given zero indication that that anyone but Grant is in line to start the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Read it fine the first time again.....what training camp...he's had none this season again , is still dinged up Why are you talking about training camp? Or is it your contention that NFL players can only train during training camp? Is training synonymous with training camp for you? Starks was practicing right up to the week 1 PS game, and he's been practicing since the week 2 PS game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturphy Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 No, McCarthy was talking about him as a future stud. You do know that as of this date, the future includes all of the 2011 regular season, right? Yes, I know that, thanks BB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 (edited) Wow, a lot of Grant owners are getting their panties in a bunch in this thread. Or you're just not providing any evidence besides you seeing a future stud in Starks ... I don't think anyone is saying that it's impossible that he could become the starter at some point this season, but we need more to base that on than just opinion.... Can we even be sure they have enough confidence in his ability to stay healthy yet to be a feature back? He hasn't even played a full healthy season as of yet. Edited August 25, 2011 by delusions of granduer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 $2.5M is locked-up guaranteed starter money for an NFL RB? It is for TT. he didnt have to guarantee that money, he could have cut him instead. Why bother if you dont plan on using him? And it is the most money an RB ON THE PACKERS is making. comparing to the rest of the NFL is a red herring. I sure dont see Starks outplaying Grant in preseason so Grant remains the starter for 2011. This really isnt that hard bronco . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturphy Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Wow, a lot of Grant owners are getting their panties in a bunch in this thread. You know how to come in and cause a ruckus, this is certain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Wow. A whole lot of people making some bold statements here. There also seems to be a whole lot of ignoring that Starks was injured for a portion of last year - an injury dating back to college - and did not getting activated from the PUP list until November 9th of last year. He missed all of last year's OTAs, training camp, and preseason, and was not running until the end of September. He then got sat down after coming back because he hadn't learned pro work habits in all that time he missed. Despite all these facts, GB still rode him as their RB1 on their SB run. Now Starks has committed to a change in diet that has seen him add another 8 lbs of good weight where he hasn't lost any quickness. He seems to be not only learning how to be a pro, but he's also going to get the training he didn't last season. It's also well known that McCarthy raves about the kid and sees a future stud in him. If you saw his college body or work you'd know why. The talent and ability are there. Underestimate him at your own risk. Compared to the many players on the Packers that McCarthy says "suck ass". It is called coach speak . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Or you're just not providing any evidence besides you seeing a future stud in Starks ... I don't think anyone is saying that it's impossible that he could become the starter at some point this season, but we need more to base that on than just opinion.... Can we even be sure they have enough confidence in his ability to stay healthy yet to be a feature back? He hasn't even played a full healthy season as of yet. I'm seeing statements that Grant is locked in as the starter - based upon taking a pay cut - and that he'll get 65% of the touches at RB, and I'm saying that thinking is nuts. I'd be surprised to see Grant get as much as 50% of the RB touches this season. And yeah, a rookie who was PUPed isn't going to have a full healthy season on his next season's resume, is he? Starks brings some dynamics to the running game that Grant doesn't. That's not a knock on Grant, Grant's a workhorse. But McCarthy has plainly stated that he sees something special in Starks, and when a HC says stuff like that a few times I pay attention. I also see Starks in college footage of having the ability that McCarthy is referring to, and having some qualities that Grant is missing. Again, that's no knock on Grant. The guy has proven he can be a very reliable solid starting RB in the NFL. But it also doesn't lock him in as a bell cow for GB this season (and bell cow RBs get 65% of the work in the backfield), and if people think it does because he took only $2.5M guaranteed to play this season, I say that they are grasping at straws and are acting on false hopes. The RBs will divide the work, until one guy rises head and shoulders above the rest at which point he might get 65% of the remaining touches. But right now, that hasn't happened. To act as though that has happened and is a fact because Grant took a pay cut? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Compared to the many players on the Packers that McCarthy says "suck ass". It is called coach speak . . . . September 13, 2010: "McCarthy has supreme confidence in Jackson. No longer the deer-in-headlights disappointment he was during his rookie campaign, the fourth-year rusher flashed increased assertiveness throughout training camp and the preseason. The Packers’ head coach was so impressed with Jackson’s maturity, he remarked four weeks ago the vice-back could handle the load if needed. From the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel: "Brandon Jackson to me is an every-down back," McCarthy said. "(He) is a good special teams player, too. He's a complete football player, and if we had to play all three downs with him, I wouldn't even blink." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 I'm seeing statements that Grant is locked in as the starter - based upon taking a pay cut - and that he'll get 65% of the touches at RB, and I'm saying that thinking is nuts. I'd be surprised to see Grant get as much as 50% of the RB touches this season. And yeah, a rookie who was PUPed isn't going to have a full healthy season on his next season's resume, is he? Starks brings some dynamics to the running game that Grant doesn't. That's not a knock on Grant, Grant's a workhorse. But McCarthy has plainly stated that he sees something special in Starks, and when a HC says stuff like that a few times I pay attention. I also see Starks in college footage of having the ability that McCarthy is referring to, and having some qualities that Grant is missing. Again, that's no knock on Grant. The guy has proven he can be a very reliable solid starting RB in the NFL. But it also doesn't lock him in as a bell cow for GB this season (and bell cow RBs get 65% of the work in the backfield), and if people think it does because he took only $2.5M guaranteed to play this season, I say that they are grasping at straws and are acting on false hopes. The RBs will divide the work, until one guy rises head and shoulders above the rest at which point he might get 65% of the remaining touches. But right now, that hasn't happened. To act as though that has happened and is a fact because Grant took a pay cut? I agree, but I still don't see evidence that it will be the case... As I mentioned in the above post, McCarthy was vocal in his praise for Jackson leading up to last year.... And doesn't McCarthy normally like to roll with a feature back, rather than a time-share? I just think that if Grant is back to pre-injury form, that they will be in no rush to push Starks into that role until they need to... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 I thought his name was Bronco Billy, not Packer Billy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 OK, my bad, was just an impression, not really up on it. Then wtph on the roster cut rumours? Just typical franchise/HC doublespeak? I think it's just a writer chasing a sliver of a story. Let's put it this way - I can see Grant NOT being the starter. I can't see him getting cut in favor of Nance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Despite all these facts, GB still rode him as their RB1 on their SB run. Now Starks has committed to a change in diet that has seen him add another 8 lbs of good weight where he hasn't lost any quickness. He seems to be not only learning how to be a pro, but he's also going to get the training he didn't last season. It's also well known that McCarthy raves about the kid and sees a future stud in him. If you saw his college body or work you'd know why. The talent and ability are there. Underestimate him at your own risk. He beat out a dumpster fire that is Brandon Jackson, a fullback in Kuhn, and Nance who was signed off of a practice squad. It's not like he beat anyone out. And hype him up all your want, the guy has a long way to go, he's very raw. Yes, he has a new diet that has been talked about a ton. Unfortunately, a diet doesn't keep you from rolling your ankle. The guy has missed a lot of reps, and barring an injury to Grant, will be Grant's backup this year. Like I said earlier... 2012. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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