montster Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 In the first quarter of the Monday night game, a 23-yard pass to Nicks along the sideline was ruled incomplete because he seemed to catch it out of bounds, but a defensive pass interference was called, so the Giants got the yardage anyway. Replays showed that Nicks seemed to have made the catch in bounds. In my week 2 matchup, I lost by 2.88 points. Nicks' catch plus the yardage would have given me 3.3 points. Official stat changes haven't been released, but it looks like they're crediting Nicks with a catch: http://www.newsday.com/sports/football/gia...ounts-1.3190030 While the NFL is busy cracking down on fake injuries, it's also reinstating real catches. Hakeem Nicks has another reception and Eli Manning has an additional completion and 23 passing yards after a scoring change from the game Monday night. With 6:37 remaining in the first quarter, the Giants faced a fourth-and-4 from the Rams’ 32-yard line. Manning threw a pass to the left sideline... (rest of article is subscription-only) and MikeGarafolo Mike GarafoloAlert your fantasy leagues: Hakeem Nicks has been credited with a 23-yard catch vs Rams initially ruled a pass interference penalty. #nyg The situation: I am commissioner of a 12-team league in its fourth year. We've never had an outcome change on the basis of a stat correction. We have no rule that directly addresses it. If this were just a matter of bringing it to the attention of the commissioner and taking my chances, I would, but in this case I am the commissioner. For the record, we run the league on MFL, which tracks the stat changes. Assuming the catch is credited tomorrow morning, am I opening a can of worms by bringing it up to the league? If we have no rule that directly addresses this scenario, should I suck it up and move on? I pride myself on going out of my way to be fair, so the last thing I want is to be seen as suffering from sour grapes. Just looking for some feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Use the instance to get a rule passed that makes sense, but you probably have to eat it with nothing on the books. In Norris we use: 5.4 Appealing a Score: Sometimes errors occur when statistics are reported or compiled. Any owner may appeal the score of any team if he feels that an error has occurred. 5.4.1 To appeal a score an owner needs to contact the commissioner with his concerns and should present evidence to support his argument. After all of the evidence has been presented, the commissioner is obliged to make a ruling. All scores not already under appeal become final with the start of Sunday NFL play the following week. 5.4.2 If a team score is not under appeal by the start of the following week's Sunday NFL play, it becomes permanent record whether or not it is officially correct in the longer term i.e. two weeks or two decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 All of my leagues apply stat changes that are announced prior to the start of the next week's game. I believe this is documented in all of their rules though. IIRC, MFL actually has this as a setting option so that it is not a manual decision to apply stat changes. And yes, it has affected results... in fact, we got an extra win in WCOFF last year due to a stat correction. How has the league handled stat changes in the past? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montster Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 Use the instance to get a rule passed that makes sense, but you probably have to eat it with nothing on the books. In Norris we use: Such a simple rule ... I've known about Thursday stat corrections for years and just never had the sense to put such a rule in writing. All of my leagues apply stat changes that are announced prior to the start of the next week's game. I believe this is documented in all of their rules though. IIRC, MFL actually has this as a setting option so that it is not a manual decision to apply stat changes. And yes, it has affected results... in fact, we got an extra win in WCOFF last year due to a stat correction. How has the league handled stat changes in the past? No one has ever come to me requesting a stat correction in the four years of the league. I can't tell you how many times I've pored over Thursday stat corrections after a close loss, hoping to see something that might give me the win. I finally get one and I probably can't do anything about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 (edited) All of my leagues apply stat changes that are announced prior to the start of the next week's game. I believe this is documented in all of their rules though. IIRC, MFL actually has this as a setting option so that it is not a manual decision to apply stat changes. And yes, it has affected results... in fact, we got an extra win in WCOFF last year due to a stat correction. How has the league handled stat changes in the past? Where did you see this? You can seriously get lost in the commish setup. Never really thought to address this issue... I guess if you cant get it to a vote before Sunday, then IMO you should go by however you had it set up before the season with your hosting site... But I'm definitely going to propose Pope Flick's league rules to any leagues that don't have anything in place, where it's up to the person to catch it and then make their case to the commish(es). Edited September 21, 2011 by delusions of granduer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAdonis2010 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 do all of you guys use a notepad ,pencil, and newspaper still?? in all of the leagues i have played in since the millennium it has been on yahoo,nfl, or espn...to the best of my knowledge there are no settings for stat corrections....it is all in fine print somewhere in the league rules,,,mostly saying all scores not final until a certain date, or pending stat corrections, etc so the commissioner can just sit back and let everyone badmouth the host site and not you when they wake up one morning after a win and see now a big loss ......if this is not the case,i really think you are screwed either way if there is nothing outlined because its a matter of when is the final score "final"...i think a league vote is your best bet...and definitely make note of it and define it next season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Where did you see this? You can seriously get lost in the commish setup. The 2nd item in the "For Commissioners" tab is "Statistics Changes" where you can manually or automatically apply them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAdonis2010 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 All of my leagues apply stat changes that are announced prior to the start of the next week's game. I believe this is documented in all of their rules though. IIRC, MFL actually has this as a setting option so that it is not a manual decision to apply stat changes. And yes, it has affected results... in fact, we got an extra win in WCOFF last year due to a stat correction. How has the league handled stat changes in the past? i dont see any scenario in where you would not want the stat corrections applied in the league settings if given the option......that's like taking the SAT's with a sharpie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Where did you see this? You can seriously get lost in the commish setup. Hover For Commissioners, click Statistics Changes. Along the top of this menu reads: Check this box to automatically apply all stat changes for all weeks of the season on Thursdays at 10:00am ET Two issues with this: 1. This will NOT recalculate your weekly results, so if a win/loss changes as a result, you need to do that manually, which MFL supports. 2. The NFL has no official policy on stat changes. They are usually issued before this, but might not be. Additionally, more change might happen later. They can, officially, issue stat changes at any time days/weeks later. Our league policy is the owner has until the following Waiver Run to request a stat update and change to win/loss result since the waiver run is the first official action in the league affected by standings. This must be owner issued, it is not the responsibility of the commissioner to execute or even notify other owners if he's aware of changes. After Waiver Run standings are official, but stat changes can still be requested and executed as points scored affect other things like tie-breakers in waivers/playoff seedings etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackass Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 i dont see any scenario in where you would not want the stat corrections applied in the league settings if given the option......that's like taking the SAT's with a sharpie i agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montster Posted September 22, 2011 Author Share Posted September 22, 2011 The 2nd item in the "For Commissioners" tab is "Statistics Changes" where you can manually or automatically apply them. What's the default? Because although I'm aware of the setting, I don't think I ever changed it, so I don't know what it's set to. And I'm not logging in as commissioner until this is resolved, because as of now it has been a week since I logged on as commissioner and I would like to be able to prove I haven't mucked with the settings this week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 The situation: I am commissioner of a 12-team league in its fourth year. We've never had an outcome change on the basis of a stat correction. We have no rule that directly addresses it. If this were just a matter of bringing it to the attention of the commissioner and taking my chances, I would, but in this case I am the commissioner. For the record, we run the league on MFL, which tracks the stat changes. Assuming the catch is credited tomorrow morning, am I opening a can of worms by bringing it up to the league? If we have no rule that directly addresses this scenario, should I suck it up and move on? I pride myself on going out of my way to be fair, so the last thing I want is to be seen as suffering from sour grapes. Just looking for some feedback. You present it to your league owners as an unresolved issue and trust them to act like adults when deciding the right thing to do going forward. Focus on the fact that this might pop up again, and they might be the recipient when it really counts. That Boldin one a couple of years ago ended up knocking one of our owners out of the Championship game that year - he was NOT a happy camper but voted against himself because it was the right thing to do given the timing. Don't tell them who's involved (they might already know) but rather present it as "if it happens to you how do you want it handled?" It's an official stat change, it changes the result of the game, and nothing has been done that can't be undone in the interim (has it? do you have early pickups/trades already processed?) so they need to decide what the right thing is for the league, not for the two owners involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Easy ... according to the league bylaws. I'd say if the league rules do not specifically state when, how or if stats changes are handled then they stats changes should never be applied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinkris Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I don't see why they shouldn't be applied. If the nfl deems it a legal stat change, why would it not change on your FF team? I mean if the player at the end of the year has those stats, it should count. We don't choose which plays/games/receptions count.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I don't see why they shouldn't be applied. If the nfl deems it a legal stat change, why would it not change on your FF team? I mean if the player at the end of the year has those stats, it should count. We don't choose which plays/games/receptions count.. It's not that simple if actions have been taken based on the original outcome. Trades and waivers might change based on this new result - you don't want to have to try to unravel the wouldda couldda shouldda that results after the fact. At some point you need to define a week as closed and move along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCSkins Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Wow, I can't believe how many people think you should just suck up the loss and not do anything. I'm a commish and I'd make the change in an instant, even if meant I ended up losing my own game. Fair is fair. Fantasy stats are based on NFL stats, so if an NFL stat changes, then why shouldn't the same stat be changed in fantasy? It's just common sense, and the fair thing to do. I don't even see what could possibly be debatable about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinkris Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 It's not that simple if actions have been taken based on the original outcome. Trades and waivers might change based on this new result - you don't want to have to try to unravel the wouldda couldda shouldda that results after the fact. At some point you need to define a week as closed and move along. Well unless you use first to worst waivers, then it doesn't really matter. I know things "could" of changed, but most likely whether you won or lost you would still want that person. Well why would the week finish before the nfl does stat changes? I think it should just count, I mean most websites just automatically update that and would change the loss/win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Wow, I can't believe how many people think you should just suck up the loss and not do anything. I'm a commish and I'd make the change in an instant, even if meant I ended up losing my own game. Fair is fair. Fantasy stats are based on NFL stats, so if an NFL stat changes, then why shouldn't the same stat be changed in fantasy? It's just common sense, and the fair thing to do. I don't even see what could possibly be debatable about that. Without clear and concise league rules to address this issue you do nothing. The parameters have to be well defined. How do you handle this situation without clear rules: Week 15 semi-finals Team A defeats Team B Team C defeats Team D Week 16 superbowl Team A defeats Team C Payouts are distributed. Week 17 stats adjustments are made to week 15 which would have resulted in Team B defeating Team A. So Team A should never have advanced to the superbowl. Team B should have gone to the SB but of course never entered a lineup because he thought he was eliminated. By all appearances had Team B gone to the SB and submitted a common sense lineup they would have won the SB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCSkins Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Week 17 stats adjustments are made to week 15 I don't understand this comment. This Nicks issue is being addressed and applied just 2 days after the game, so why would week 15 stat changes be applied 2 weeks later? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I don't understand this comment. This Nicks issue is being addressed and applied just 2 days after the game, so why would week 15 stat changes be applied 2 weeks later? He's saying the same thing I am, and the same thing you are thinking. As long as nothing has been done that can't easily be undone, making the change is appropriate. His example shows how bad it would be to not have a strict definition of when "too late" is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 (edited) I don't understand this comment. This Nicks issue is being addressed and applied just 2 days after the game, so why would week 15 stat changes be applied 2 weeks later? I'm saying you need to have well defined rules. You are only considering the Nicks case ... but stats are often changed 1 or 2 weeks later. You have to have clear and concise rules that define a cut off time. Otherwise the scenario I outlined is just one example of the things that could cause issues in your league. If your league doesn't have a rule ... you can't simply assume you should apply stats changes because the cut off hasn't been defined. This week you allowed changes to Nicks stats because it was "right". Next time an owner may exclaim you have to allow the stat change that gives him a win when 2 weeks have already passed. What do you do then? Edited September 22, 2011 by Grits and Shins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 (edited) He's saying the same thing I am, and the same thing you are thinking. As long as nothing has been done that can't easily be undone, making the change is appropriate. His example shows how bad it would be to not have a strict definition of when "too late" is. In leagues I am in, the deadline for late stat changes is kickoff of the first game of the following week. Edited September 22, 2011 by Big John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 In leagues I am in, the deadline for late stat changes is kickoff of the first game of the following week. Yup - this is the most common sense approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCSkins Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 In leagues I am in, the deadline for late stat changes is kickoff of the first game of the following week. Does that include weeks in which there is a Thursday or Saturday game? Or is it the first game on Sunday? I'm planning to add this language to my League's Rules so I just want to make sure I have it right. Thanks for all the help, people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Does that include weeks in which there is a Thursday or Saturday game? Or is it the first game on Sunday? I'm planning to add this language to my League's Rules so I just want to make sure I have it right. Thanks for all the help, people. That includes those weeks with THU and SAT games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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