SayItAintSoJoe Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 When there are thousands of decent law abiding citizens you don't need any either. That, plus they carry guns on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 You made a statement that was clearly inaccurate and got all chippy and personal when called on it. Now you are just pulling a silly semantically impersonation of some of the more notable spin-masters on this board in a desperate attempt to justify it. I'd just stop if I were you. yes, having your own photoshop thread equates to being in the collective american conscience. wow, so pawned. you are some kind of deep genius for calling me out. i guess i can expect to find this bubble lamp on the evening news tonight ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 (edited) people don't give a sh*t if a cop pepper sprays someone Hey spinmeister, can you remind me what news story is getting the most coverage and what topic we've been discussing for the last few pages again? Thanks for playing. Edited November 22, 2011 by bushwacked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Hey spinmeister, can you remind me what news story is getting the most coverage and what topic we've been discussing for the last few pages again? Thanks for playing. hey, there's a multi-page thread as well about the end of the world. should i be worried? wait a week and then show me a pepper spray headline. then we'll talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 I'm not pro pepper spray, I'm pro law, and law enforcement. If the cops aren't going to do their jobs, and follow the law, protect what they are supposed to, how long do you think it will be before there is an all out civil war? You may not like their methods, at times, but I think the upholding of our laws is an extrememly important function. While you may not like the use of the OWS Chitter as an example of lawlessness, I am not sure Mr pepper spray is going to be the PR nightmare you think. At the end of the day, the officer did his job. I hope he does it again ( uphold the law) , with restraint and caution, avoiding these situations if he can, but protecting him and his partners if protesters think themselves above having to listen to the laws and law enforcers of our country. Law and order is better than anarchy and chaos, and I am not sure OWS crowd, fringe or otherwise wouldn't prefer the latter.. Keep in mind, chitting on a cop car is illegal. When you pepper spray people who are - whether you like it or not - using their first amendment rights that is an entirely different story. And that's the story. You can argue legalities regarding dispersal orders, etc but no one cares if you pepper spray the car chitter but many people I know who had no dog in the argument are now well engaged. Think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo mama Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Keep in mind, chitting on a cop car is illegal. When you pepper spray people who are - whether you like it or not - using their first amendment rights that is an entirely different story. And that's the story. You can argue legalities regarding dispersal orders, etc but no one cares if you pepper spray the car chitter but many people I know who had no dog in the argument are now well engaged. Think about it. You've got a point. My mom attended Berkley in the late 60s. The use of pepper spray ended up bring out more people than it deterred. I'm not 100% behind the OWS movement, but I am 100% against the excessive use of force by law enforcement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 You've got a point. My mom attended Berkley in the late 60s. The use of pepper spray ended up bring out more people than it deterred. I'm not 100% behind the OWS movement, but I am 100% against the excessive use of force by law enforcement. Good stuff here . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil_gop_liars Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 When there are thousands of decent law abiding citizens you don't need any either. Nobody ever pepper sprays the Westboro baptist people either. I guess it just goes to show you nobody really likes dirty hippies sitting on sidewalks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 hey, there's a multi-page thread as well about the end of the world. should i be worried? That's up to you. Should I get pissy if you do and I think you shouldn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted November 22, 2011 Author Share Posted November 22, 2011 An internet meme makes sure something isn't forgotten. Usually a douchebag gets their face plastered on a meme. Jesus getting pepper sprayed isn't just a joke. It's more of a, "what would happen to Jesus if he met this police officer." Class dismissed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 An internet meme makes sure something isn't forgotten. Usually a douchebag gets their face plastered on a meme. Jesus getting pepper sprayed isn't just a joke. It's more of a, "what would happen to Jesus if he met this police officer." Class dismissed. does jesus have a green card? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 but many people I know who had no dog in the argument are now well engaged. Think about it. You've got a point. My mom attended Berkley in the late 60s. The use of pepper spray ended up bring out more people than it deterred. I'm not 100% behind the OWS movement, but I am 100% against the excessive use of force by law enforcement. You guys are wrong. Tonorator and I live in the real world and in the real world no-one gives a chit if a cop pepper sprays them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 You guys are wrong. Tonorator and I live in the real world and in the real world no-one gives a chit if a cop pepper sprays them. sorry, but a cop says move, you move. there's a difference between exercising first amendment rights and ignoring what cops tell you to do. i would be more sympathetic if there was an actual movement here of any substance, but just not wanting to move because you are upset that others are wealthier and more successful than you is silly. a pepper spray to the face may actually help some of these people wake up and start doing something actually productive ... and if pepper spraying is what brings out more people, it just reinforces the point that there wasn't much of real substance to be there for in the first place. again, let's check in a week if this is even remotely still relevant ... other than the use of the imagery against the muppets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otis29 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 sorry, but a cop says move, you move. there's a difference between exercising first amendment rights and ignoring what cops tell you to do. So, per tonorator, I think we can safely amend this: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. To this: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. But if a cop tells you to move, then you should move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 sorry, but a cop says move, you move. there's a difference between exercising first amendment rights and ignoring what cops tell you to do.i would be more sympathetic if there was an actual movement here of any substance, but just not wanting to move because you are upset that others are wealthier and more successful than you is silly. a pepper spray to the face may actually help some of these people wake up and start doing something actually productive ... and if pepper spraying is what brings out more people, it just reinforces the point that there wasn't much of real substance to be there for in the first place. again, let's check in a week if this is even remotely still relevant ... other than the use of the imagery against the muppets. In saying that you reveal your ignorance of the first amendment. Oh well, not surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 So, per tonorator, I think we can safely amend this: To this: : nice try but your attempts to appear as a crusader are as sad as the OWS participants. assembling peacefully does not mean ignoring law enforcement and locking arms when they tell you to move and stop blocking people from getting from point a to point b. you peacefully get up and go somewhere else to continue your peaceful assembly. it would even be nicer if you had a real cause to peacefully assemble for ... one of the students was protesting the raise in her tuition saying she's not a cash cow. this is just kind of assembling and being a pain in the ass for no real apparent reason. see one needs the actual cause part for the first amendment to truly be at play. what are they protesting again? wealth? success? isn't the word prosperity in our heritage somewhere too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 : nice try but your attempts to appear as a crusader are as sad as the OWS participants. assembling peacefully does not mean ignoring law enforcement and locking arms when they tell you to move and stop blocking people from getting from point a to point b. you peacefully get up and go somewhere else to continue your peaceful assembly. it would even be nicer if you had a real cause to peacefully assemble for ... one of the students was protesting the raise in her tuition saying she's not a cash cow. this is just kind of assembling and being a pain in the ass for no real apparent reason. see one needs the actual cause part for the first amendment to truly be at play. what are they protesting again? wealth? success? isn't the word prosperity in our heritage somewhere too? Hey ton, learn something: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_assembly and realize you are only justifying it because you don't like what they're saying. Believe it or not, they are allowed to say it and it isn't nearly as black and white as 'cop tells you to move, then move.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 In saying that you reveal your ignorance of the first amendment. Oh well, not surprised. so they don't have to move? they have the right to disobey law enforcement? do you understand the word "peacefully"? should they have been able to stay in that private park indefinitely too? eventually the mayor HAD to come in and tell them to move. if you believe the first amendment exempts you from following the law, it is you who are ignorant. why disrespect the police? how are they accountable for your plight? why not just get up and go to another part of campus? why say no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 so they don't have to move? they have the right to disobey law enforcement? do you understand the word "peacefully"? should they have been able to stay in that private park indefinitely too? eventually the mayor HAD to come in and tell them to move. if you believe the first amendment exempts you from following the law, it is you who are ignorant. why disrespect the police? how are they accountable for your plight? why not just get up and go to another part of campus? why say no? They are allowed to freely assemble. You don't like it and support thuggish behavior. You throw a ton of questions in order to change the subject at hand which is the gross over-reaction of pepper spraying people who were exercising their right to freely assemble. It isn't that hard to understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayItAintSoJoe Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 i would be more sympathetic if there was an actual movement here of any substance, but just not wanting to move because you are upset that others are wealthier and more successful than you is silly. They're protesting tuition increases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 and realize you are only justifying it because you don't like what they're saying. Believe it or not, they are allowed to say it and it isn't nearly as black and white as 'cop tells you to move, then move.' sure it is. cops tell me i have to clear an area, i don't debate them and i don't lock arms to ignore them ... especially because i'm not happy with tuition rates ... you want this to be about higher ideas, i understand that. the problem is, it's not. it's people who are overwhelming spoiled, complaining about whatever they can find, not truly realizing why the first amendment exists and what true sacrifice and injustice means. this is an insult to those who protested for civil rights. still, i have no problem with them continuing their party, just do it lawfully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil_gop_liars Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 so they don't have to move? they have the right to disobey law enforcement? do you understand the word "peacefully"? should they have been able to stay in that private park indefinitely too? eventually the mayor HAD to come in and tell them to move. if you believe the first amendment exempts you from following the law, it is you who are ignorant. why disrespect the police? how are they accountable for your plight? why not just get up and go to another part of campus? why say no? Wow! "Blacks" would still be sitting in the back of the bus if we lived in your world. Laws is laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayItAintSoJoe Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 (edited) sure it is. cops tell me i have to clear an area, i don't debate them and i don't lock arms to ignore them ... You would make a lousy protester. If you take the "dis" out "civil disobedience" your protest is not going to make a lot of progress. Edited November 22, 2011 by SayItAintSoJoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 freedom of assembly ≠ freedom of venue if you're not supposed to be somewhere and a cop tells you to move, this has ceased being a first amendment issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 They are allowed to freely assemble. You don't like it and support thuggish behavior. You throw a ton of questions in order to change the subject at hand which is the gross over-reaction of pepper spraying people who were exercising their right to freely assemble. It isn't that hard to understand. if it is determined that the cops used excessive force, by all means reprimand them. i'm not saying that they could have been wrong ... i'm saying nobody really cares that much and this will be dealt with and forgotten. michael moore likening this to tiananmen square just shows how ridiculous this is becoming. they at least were openly protesting corruption ... OWSers are protesting success and free markets! trying to create a scenario where these noble and high minded protesters who are exercising their first amendment rights in the name of freedom and higher ideas are being brutalized and that somehow will energize this "movement" is just a joke. linking it to this is an insult for those the first amendment was truly designed to protect, and by and large, the american people will move on with their lives after this because there is no substance here. what do they represent again? do you have to actually understand the cause for the first amendment to be at play or can you just hang out wherever you want to? and no one is stopping them, just asking them to follow the law and not disrupt those trying to educate themselves or go to work. these questions are valid to ask ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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