Ursa Majoris Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 Yeah, I'm a 'naysayer' but its only with respect to his football skills, not his character. Everything I know about him tells me he's 100% a class act. Without doubt. He already has his own foundations and charities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 Yeah, I'm a 'naysayer' but its only with respect to his football skills, not his character. Everything I know about him tells me he's 100% a class act. basically the same with me here Although I'll note that I do think he is an outstanding overall football player--I'm just not sure that he has the specialized skills to succeed in the NFL. For example, he is probably a better quarterback than 97% of the rest of the players in the league and he is probably a better running back than 95% of players in the league. The problem is that in modern football, teams want QBs and RBs who are in the top 1% in their categories rather than somebody who can do both pretty well. He may prove me wrong and I'd be happy enough for him if he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 Yep . . . when you lose to a team that has lost 7 straight games, really the only person that can hold them back is the playcalling. When a guy is 13-30 for 185 yards and 4 picks, I know I sure want him throwing a LOT more. Really the only reason they lost and have NEEDED 4th quarter magic in other games is that clearly the offensive coordinator just cant realize the passing brilliance of Tim tebow and is for some unknown reason having him run the ball instead of letting Tebow just go out and be magical. So to sum up . . . .First, it was that the OC was sabotaging Tebows chances by asking him to make "NFL throws", like a 10 yard out pattern and moaning and groaning that he just doesnt utilize tebow properly. Then the team designs the entire offense around Tebow and runs the spread option and barely asks him to pass (because he has shown no indication of being a successful passing QB). That has done just enough to speak by in close games, and get blown out when defended properly, or the other team gets a significant lead. Now when playing a very INFERIOR opponent, the reason for the loss is that the OC is keeping the magical passing talent that is Tim Tebow under wraps for some nefarious reason, when it is obvious that Tim Tebow is secretly an AWESOME passer that just isnt getting the calls to shine earlier in games. Best. thread. Evah. It's a shame Santa didn't leave any brains under your tree again this year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 It's a shame Santa didn't leave any brains under your tree again this year... In fairness, you were complaining about them throwing him to the wolves and now complain that the offense is too conservative. Well, that is, when you're not saying it's dynamic. It is not very hard to find contradiction in your statements despite your protestations that your logic is sound and anyone who doesn't get must be stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 In fairness, you were complaining about them throwing him to the wolves and now complain that the offense is too conservative. Well, that is, when you're not saying it's dynamic. It is not very hard to find contradiction in your statements despite your protestations that your logic is sound and anyone who doesn't get must be stupid. In fairness? So you're telling me that you feel the need yet again to champion yet another Huddler because their portrayal of my position is accurate as I quoted, and therefore deserves no derisive comment? Of course I should expect that from you, since that's one of your favorite tactics also - misconstrue another's position, sometimes to the point of completely mangling it like your sidekick bpwallace does, and then use it as a strawman foundation for your argument. Sal Alinski would be proud of the both of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 In fairness? So you're telling me that you feel the need yet again to champion yet another Huddler because their portrayal of my position is accurate as I quoted, and therefore deserves no derisive comment? Of course I should expect that from you, since that's one of your favorite tactics also - misconstrue another's position, sometimes to the point of completely mangling it like your sidekick bpwallace does, and then use it as a strawman foundation for your argument. Sal Alinski would be proud of the both of you. No, I'm saying that "getting it" when it comes to you seemingly requires some very convenient definitions. That, despite being every bit as verbose as I am, you either fail to accurately portray your true position or actually defend positions that can't mutually exist. Both of which very much opens you up for these sorts of interpretation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 No, I'm saying that "getting it" when it comes to you seemingly requires some very convenient definitions. That, despite being every bit as verbose as I am, you either fail to accurately portray your true position or actually defend positions that can't mutually exist. Both of which very much opens you up for these sorts of interpretation. If you say so, chief. It seems that very few here have trouble interpretting my positions correctly. I'm trying to figure out whether you are incapable of accurately assessing them - which is where I think guys like bpwallace stands - or can't do it intentionally in order to create a position that doesn't actually exist so that you have what you otherwise would not, which is a position of strength from which to argue. I think it's the latter, but it is really difficult to decide at times - like now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditkaless Wonders Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 It should be interesting to see Tebow, against the man he replaced, for the playoffs, after experiencing recent adversity. The legend could grow even further than had the just won out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL Fan Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 I still like him. Crashing down to earth isn't a bad thing for him, he probably needs to be humbled a bit for his own development's sake. His head was probably getting a bit big for him with all the massive publicity, and hopefully he'll tone down all the in your face religious stuff in the future. Lets remember this is only his second year and he's had himself a pretty good run on the whole this year, as had his team He's a good guy though and I think he has a long career ahead of him. Wow, I disagree with this on both counts. His ego is not a problem, and I don't believe it ever will be. He appears to be the most humble man in the NFL as best I can tell. And if you think that he will "tone down" his Christian rhetoric, again I don't think you understand Tebow very well. He believes with all his heart that the reason God gave him his talents was so that he could get a large stage and large audience to proclaim God's greatness to the masses. To "tone it down" would in his opinion be completely wasting the talents he believes God gave him. Not likely. He believes God put him on this earth to convert non- believers and reinforce the faith of believers, not to win championships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 It seems that very few here have trouble interpretting my positions correctly. If you say so, chief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNOWBOUND33 Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 My new year wish is for Billy to go away. Take Tebow with him before he ruins Elways one and only shot at football after football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 If you say so, chief. It seems that very few here have trouble interpretting my positions correctly. I'm trying to figure out whether you are incapable of accurately assessing them - which is where I think guys like bpwallace stands - or can't do it intentionally in order to create a position that doesn't actually exist so that you have what you otherwise would not, which is a position of strength from which to argue. I think it's the latter, but it is really difficult to decide at times - like now. You seem to be familiar with the works of Bronco Billy, but have obviously not read much of him. Luckily there's 50+ pages with his position du jour documented in this thread. You should really give it a read.. Actually, I'm quite curious. What exactly are you claiming your unwaivering position has been? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 In fairness, you were complaining about them throwing him to the wolves and now complain that the offense is too conservative. Well, that is, when you're not saying it's dynamic. It is not very hard to find contradiction in your statements despite your protestations that your logic is sound and anyone who doesn't get must be stupid. Come on man. I am on the opposite side of BB in almost this entire thread but the post by BP had one purpose - to be a Megan Fox - I give the guy credit credit - he is a heckuva Megan Fox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 It seems that very few here have trouble interpretting my positions correctly. Who here disagrees that you are making over-reaching justifications to rationalize your blind homer man-crush on Tebow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNOWBOUND33 Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 1000th verse, same as the first: Tebow sucks as an nfl qb. Bye timmy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I wasn't under the impression that was a problem. And if it was, that's amazing, because while he's gotten no shortage of attention, much of it has not exactly been the kind of thing that one would let go to one's head. Because plenty of it has been from guys saying he's not good enough. Assuming Tebow has the character that they say he does (and I'm not doubting that at all), I can't fathom how he could have let their winning streak go to his head. Especially in light of the nay sayers hardly slowing down during it. Good points, but you gotta believe that all the other attention, all the "he just wins" the "Broncos are great with Tebow" all the hype over every game they played didn't go to the guys head some. Sure the nay sayers kept bringing it, but every week I'd hear another analyst or groups of NFL fans saying "I believe now". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Wow, I disagree with this on both counts. His ego is not a problem, and I don't believe it ever will be. He appears to be the most humble man in the NFL as best I can tell. And if you think that he will "tone down" his Christian rhetoric, again I don't think you understand Tebow very well. He believes with all his heart that the reason God gave him his talents was so that he could get a large stage and large audience to proclaim God's greatness to the masses. To "tone it down" would in his opinion be completely wasting the talents he believes God gave him. Not likely. He believes God put him on this earth to convert non- believers and reinforce the faith of believers, not to win championships. Interesting if true. I personally think most football fans don't care, and aren't going to be enlightened or changed by his views. And most people I've met with a strong religious view and looking to help others do missionary work, or become monastics and religious leaders. His Tebowing, suggestiog that Jesus/God had a hand in play/game outcomes (even jokingly) and celebrtiy of an NFL star doesn't fit the type of people I have met who are religous and looking to help others. If the bolded part is true, why even play football, particularly in the NFL? Does he really think his becoming a star player (the only way to get more attention) will have the desired outcome? I suppose its possible, and could really be who he is and what he thinks, but it contradicts most of what I've seen in my years dealing with people. (Disclaimer My father was an Orthdox priest, I've known several bishops, monks and nuns who work every day to enlighten others. And what I see in Tebow during NFL games doesn't fit that.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Interesting if true. I personally think most football fans don't care, and aren't going to be enlightened or changed by his views. And most people I've met with a strong religious view and looking to help others do missionary work, or become monastics and religious leaders. His Tebowing, suggestiog that Jesus/God had a hand in play/game outcomes (even jokingly) and celebrtiy of an NFL star doesn't fit the type of people I have met who are religous and looking to help others. If the bolded part is true, why even play football, particularly in the NFL? Does he really think his becoming a star player (the only way to get more attention) will have the desired outcome? I suppose its possible, and could really be who he is and what he thinks, but it contradicts most of what I've seen in my years dealing with people. (Disclaimer My father was an Orthdox priest, I've known several bishops, monks and nuns who work every day to enlighten others. And what I see in Tebow during NFL games doesn't fit that.) The part you bolded from the post you replied to stuck out to me as odd as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Vatican Hitsquad Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Good points, but you gotta believe that all the other attention, all the "he just wins" the "Broncos are great with Tebow" all the hype over every game they played didn't go to the guys head some. Sure the nay sayers kept bringing it, but every week I'd hear another analyst or groups of NFL fans saying "I believe now". I don't think he needs to be humbled at all, but I don't doubt that he believed even more so that God was going to let it all play out as it has been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUMbotron Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Who said Tebow needs to be humbled - I'm not sure but it seems like Tebow is the most humble young man in the western hemisphere (?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
untateve Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 (edited) Good points, but you gotta believe that all the other attention, all the "he just wins" the "Broncos are great with Tebow" all the hype over every game they played didn't go to the guys head some. Sure the nay sayers kept bringing it, but every week I'd hear another analyst or groups of NFL fans saying "I believe now". Show me any elite athlete and I assert that on some level, they think they are the schiiit, probably more so at a position such as QB. Edited December 27, 2011 by untateve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTSuper7 Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Show me any elite athlete and I assert that on some level, they think they are the schiiit, probably more so at a position such as QB. There is a fine line between confidence and arrogance. Humility is that line. It's not so much whether or not an NFL QB thinks he is awesome, but rather who that QB truly credits for his success. Drew Brees' locker room speech after breaking Marino's record last night is a good example of this. I'm sure Brees on some level knows that he's very good at his craft and that he put a lof of work in himself to achieve that goal, but he didn't once take the spotlight for himself. It's something you can't really fake either. Because even though most QBs know what they're supposed to say (i.e. - team first), some of them show their true colors anyway when faced with adversity... Jeff George comes to mind, as does Brett Favre. Michael Vick as well, particularly thinking about his comments earlier this season about not getting calls on late hits/roughing the passer. I get the "me first" vibe from Roethlisberger too. It's easier to (or more fun to) root for the Tebows and Breeses of the NFL because they are genuinely humble and team oriented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackass Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 There is a fine line between confidence and arrogance. Humility is that line. It's not so much whether or not an NFL QB thinks he is awesome, but rather who that QB truly credits for his success. Drew Brees' locker room speech after breaking Marino's record last night is a good example of this. I'm sure Brees on some level knows that he's very good at his craft and that he put a lof of work in himself to achieve that goal, but he didn't once take the spotlight for himself. It's something you can't really fake either. Because even though most QBs know what they're supposed to say (i.e. - team first), some of them show their true colors anyway when faced with adversity... Jeff George comes to mind, as does Brett Favre. Michael Vick as well, particularly thinking about his comments earlier this season about not getting calls on late hits/roughing the passer. I get the "me first" vibe from Roethlisberger too. It's easier to (or more fun to) root for the Tebows and Breeses of the NFL because they are genuinely humble and team oriented. Really? My impression of Favre was that he always credited his teammates. Maybe my memory is off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNOWBOUND33 Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 There is a fine line between confidence and arrogance. Humility is that line. It's not so much whether or not an NFL QB thinks he is awesome, but rather who that QB truly credits for his success. Drew Brees' locker room speech after breaking Marino's record last night is a good example of this. I'm sure Brees on some level knows that he's very good at his craft and that he put a lof of work in himself to achieve that goal, but he didn't once take the spotlight for himself. It's something you can't really fake either. Because even though most QBs know what they're supposed to say (i.e. - team first), some of them show their true colors anyway when faced with adversity... Jeff George comes to mind, as does Brett Favre. Michael Vick as well, particularly thinking about his comments earlier this season about not getting calls on late hits/roughing the passer. I get the "me first" vibe from Roethlisberger too. It's easier to (or more fun to) root for the Tebows and Breeses of the NFL because they are genuinely humble and team oriented. Gotta give Favre and Vick some slack. Their combined IQ is below the average temperature in Green Bay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Gotta give Favre and Vick some slack. Their combined IQ is below the average temperature in Green Bay. Not today - it was slightly above freezing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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