Bronco Billy Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) Past 2 seasons, going back to week 9, 2009: Tebow as a starter: 3-3 Orton as a starter: 6-21 Scores vs OAK in that time: Tebow 61 pts for 63 pts against Orton 53 pts for 103 pts against ETA - fixed for initial innaccuracy Yep. DEN defintely needs to give up on Tebow and revert back to Orton as a starter. Thanks, eckspurts, for that sage wisdom. Edited November 7, 2011 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 They should just make Tebow a RB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelsosi Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Before people overreact to today's performance let's remember who the opposition was. Oakland has struggled defensively all season. Tebow has yet to face a really good D - Detroit is merely above average and they schooled him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rileyrott Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 But also remember that the Broncos were without McGahee for TT's last 2 games. Think that makes a difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelsosi Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Honestly? No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditkaless Wonders Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42zero Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 What the hell did I just skim through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) lol, you make it sound like some people are saying that Orton is the answer. I don't think anyone is saying that. Your post is as off-target as a Tebow pass Some people clearly were saying Orton is a much better QB than Tebow. Orton may be a better thrower, no doubt. But he's not a better QB. There's more to playing the position than simply being able to sling the ball down the field. There's lots of guys with good arms who could put up decent passing numbers and still not be able to manage Ws. Orton is one of that myriad of guys. Edited November 7, 2011 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) Before people overreact to today's performance let's remember who the opposition was. Oakland has struggled defensively all season. Tebow has yet to face a really good D - Detroit is merely above average and they schooled him. Got it. When Tebow struggles as a QB, it has nothing to do with gameplanning, playcalling, O-line play, recievers dropping balls - its exclusively Tebow's fault and no one elses', and no other excuses are allowed. But when he has a good game, it's because the other teams sucks so badly. You think the OAK D was "bored" yesterday? That DET game went way beyond just Tebow having a really crappy day, and anyone with any football acumen at all saw that. Hell, I'll give credit wher credit is due. OC McCoy got his head out of his ass, where it was firmly planted last week, and did a very good job calling plays this week - especially in the 2nd half. There's a lot more to Tebow having a good day than Tebow's play, just as there's a lot more to Tebow having a crappy day than just Tebow's play. He's a young guy, still has a ton to learn like all young QBs, didn't have any offseason to work with coaches, and got almost zero 1st team reps before being thrown into the starting position. It's going to take a while to see what he does or doesn't have. He's showing some signs of growth. But it beats watching Orton methodically and reliably lose games that DEN could have won. Edited November 7, 2011 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 And I'll add that he put up 7 more FF pts that I could have used over E Manning throwing against the 32nd ranked pass D in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditkaless Wonders Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Some people clearly were saying Orton is a much better QB than Tebow. Orton may be a better thrower, no doubt. But he's not a better QB. There's more to playing the position than simply being able to sling the ball down the field. There's lots of guys with good arms who could put up decent passing numbers and still not be able to manage Ws. Orton is one of that myriad of guys. If what I saw yesterday is any indication the ability to take one hell of a beating is an important aspect of Q.B.ing. What a game plan they had. In the first half it was evident that Fox wanted the Raiders to exhaust themselves beating the hell out of Tebow so that in the second half they would be too worn out to defend anything. It was the football version of Ali's Rope-a-Dope. Brilliant! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Past 2 seasons, going back to week 9, 2009: Tebow as a starter: 3-3 Orton as a starter: 6-21 Scores vs OAK in that time: Tebow 38 pts for 24 pts against Orton 76 pts for 142 pts against Yep. DEN defintely needs to give up on Tebow and revert back to Orton as a starter. Thanks, eckspurts, for that sage wisdom. FWIW, Tebow lost to Oakland last year 39-23, so he's 1-1 and 61 pts to 63. Not that it's a big deal, mind you, and the overall stats between the two are glaring enough. Mostly though, it is only fair to mention that the primary opinion on Orton vs Tebow among those in the Orton camp was that there was a new coach and that coach determined that Orton had won the job in training camp. So, they should roll with that and see how it went. However, I don't recall too many still in the Orton camp by the time they made the switch. Can you point to anyone who still thinks that Orton should be the starter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 FWIW, Tebow lost to Oakland last year 39-23, so he's 1-1 and 61 pts to 63. Not that it's a big deal, mind you, and the overall stats between the two are glaring enough. Dammit, you're right. I'll have to go amend that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) Can you point to anyone who still thinks that Orton should be the starter? You must have missed the past 2 or 3 6 pages... It's okay though. I fully expect those who have been so wrong in stating with absolute certainty that Tebow can not play QB at the NFL level to come forth and admit the error of their rash judgments. The vast majority of us are men here. We can admit mistakes when we make them - especially when they are so egregious. Edited November 7, 2011 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 You must have missed the past 2 or 3 6 pages... It's okay though. I fully expect those who have been so wrong in stating with absolute certainty that Tebow can not play QB at the NFL level to come forth and admit the error of their rash judgments. The vast majority of us are men here. We can admit mistakes when we make them - especially when they are so egregious. I quit looking after I got through 4 pages of people bashing Tebow but nobody mentioning that they should go back to Orton. As for the rash judgment. One could also argue that it would be "rash judgment" saying that yesterday proved anything either. It's certainly a feather in his cap, but let's not get carried away. I'm not going to discount the success, because they did move the ball and won by two TDs. Props are well deserved. And, again, I've got him on one of my FF teams, so I'll take it (even though I started Ryan and Brady over him this week). That said, anyone who was so quick to point to so many things in the previous two weeks that were apparently not his fault better not be pointing to this game as evidence that he's arrived. A typically mediocre Denver D did get 3 INTs, McGehee went ballistic, and they got a special teams TD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) I quit looking after I got through 4 pages of people bashing Tebow but nobody mentioning that they should go back to Orton. That was probably smart As for the rash judgment. One could also argue that it would be "rash judgment" saying that yesterday proved anything either. It's certainly a feather in his cap, but let's not get carried away. I haven't found anyone yet make absolutist statements that Tebow will succeed. Yesterday was just a another step forward in what would certainly be a long journey, if it indeed it ever does come to completion. However, we have had several people posting with an absolute certainty that Tebow can not succeed. If nothing else, yesterday's performance should have shown those people that Tebow has shown some improvement and at least provided some doubt in their unbending position to the point where they could at least concede that there is a possibility, no matter how slight they may think it is, that Tebow can play QB at the NFL level. Given some of the nature of the irrational venom aimed at Tebow, and that it seems to transcend any performance on the football field but rather is somehow personal in nature on the part of the posters, I have my doubts whether they'll post in this thread and have the internal fortitude to admit a change in their position. Edited November 7, 2011 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazysight Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) How many qbs would "succeed" on that team right now? Probably not many. And I don't know why anybody brings up last year (his rookie year). Should we bring up last year's numbers whenever we talk about how Alex Smith is doing? Strength of competition aside, the team is 2-1 with Tebow as starter thus far, whereas it was only 1-4 prior. This is only his second year, and he's still learning game by game I'm sure. He won't be benched anytime soon. Edited November 7, 2011 by Crazysight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) didn't get a chance to watch the game, and highlights i've seen have been limited. i see 118 rushing yards for tebow. did they run an option? did tebow play defense or special teams? how was his/their 3rd down conversion %? was mcgahee's numbers inflated by a few big runs, or did he help them sustain drives? on paper i see under 50% completion % for tebow...was he better than that sounds? the only denver highlight i've seen is an open decker lunging for a td. were tebow's other passes closer to his targets? is he actually improving as a qb? is he doing the things he needs to do to be an average nfl qb? edit: also saw the royal pr td and rec td. Edited November 7, 2011 by Bier Meister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 IMO the most telling stat of all on orton vs tebow: week 1 vs oakland: 38 yards rushing week 9 @ oakland: 299 yards rushing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 the only denver highlight i've seen is an open decker lunging for a td. were tebow's other passes closer to his targets? Would it matter to you if someone were to say that he appears to be improving? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Would it matter to you if someone were to say that he appears to be improving? definitely. i didn't get to watch the game. statistics rarely tell the full story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) did they run an option? no. several designed runs and several scrambles. did tebow play defense or special teams? no how was his/their 3rd down conversion %? he converted several, but they were in a lot of 3rd and longs in the first half so the percentage is probably mediocre at best. I thought the playcalling, though better overall than it has been, was still lacking (on 3rd down in particular, with designed QB runs on 3rd and 5's, for instance). was mcgahee's numbers inflated by a few big runs, or did he help them sustain drives? both. you're not going to hang 300 rushing yards without some big ones being thrown in there. on paper i see under 50% completion % for tebow...was he better than that sounds? I would say so. there were several drops. the only denver highlight i've seen is an open decker lunging for a td. were tebow's other passes closer to his targets? I thought he made a good throw on that score. is he actually improving as a qb? is he doing the things he needs to do to be an average nfl qb? I dunno, does winning count? I would just say this. he was, in my mind, without a doubt a 'plus' factor in the broncos' road win yesterday. Edited November 7, 2011 by Azazello1313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 All I have seen have been highlights so far . . Until I see the replay on NFL network this week I wont get into it in too much detail. From the highlights, it looks like Tebow still has "happy feet" in the pocket, but looked better than last week for sure according to teh highlights. Did they run wishbone with all the rushing yards? Or did Tebow just take off after his first read was covered again? 10-21 sure isnt lighting the world on fire . . . . was that the fault of the offensive coaches and WRs conspiring to make Tebow look bad again? Having a running game benefits any QB. Maybe Tebow can work on those QB fundamentals and progression reads now . . . . most Qbs in the NF: tend to wait until their 2nd year in the pros to start developing those skills . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 that's fair. i believe that the decision to go with tebow for the rest of the season was a sound one. they were not winning, so really nothing to gain by having orton in there, and it was necessary to see exactly what they have in tebow. i actually saw regression in his 1st 2 games than what i saw from him last year. good to hear he had a positive impact on a game. nothing wrong with some designed runs (we've seen it with cunningham, steve young, vick, mcnair to name a few). to use it as a permanent scheme is dangerous.... but, do it enough and defenses have to respond and he should see more passing lanes as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 the only denver highlight i've seen is an open decker lunging for a td. were tebow's other passes closer to his targets? I thought he made a good throw on that score. He did. Here are the highlights Is Tebow's 2nd TD pass on target enough for you, bier, or do we need to find a reason to qualify that one, too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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