Ditkaless Wonders Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 It makes a difference, don't you think? If Suh beaks Butrous Boutrous-Gali's humerus, the penalty would and should be more severe than if it "only" left cleat marks. I give a solid ten points for the reference, but have to subtract two points for the spelling. Wait, make that only one point subtracted, after all Boutros Boutros-Ghali is not an easy spell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinity Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 So we're going the NHL route then? Why not? The best part of hockey is when too guys have had enough and they fight. Take a 5 minute penalty and then they're back on the ice and things are generally settled. Certainly would be interesting to see in pro football Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 So we're going the NHL route then? I'm not sure what you mean by that, but with fines and suspensions, I think that you should take results into account. Do you really think that an action that results in a season ending injury should be punished in the same way as an identical action that results in an owie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeR Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 See when one transgresses against another his apology goes to the person transgressed against, not to third parties. But...he made it on Facebook and everything. yknow, the personal touch. The statement appeared on Suh’s page around the same time he was publically chastised by the Lions Coincedence. PS I think you guys have fed the troll so much he's waddling by now. no mas por favor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted November 26, 2011 Author Share Posted November 26, 2011 Football needs heroes and villians, as all good stories do. Suh is just the latest in a long line of tough defensive players that really like mixing it up. I think the league office effectively got Harrison to lay off a little with all of the fines - we need Suh and others to fill the void. You guys that suggest Su should lay off and play nice should relegate yourselves to a nice 5-yr-old girl soccer league where no scores are kept for your sporting pleasure. Both Harrisons took there shots during plays. Not afterwards. The best part that no one is talking about is how EDS, very much a back up whipped Suh on that play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooknladder Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 Huh. I figured you must have given up on the Colts by now and picked a team close by to pull for. It's the only possible rational conclusion I could come to given your positions in this thread. ...-not sure where you think i'm from..... i thought you enjoyed aggresive football Billy. this is much ado about nothing. nobody got hurt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilthorp Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Reading on ESPN that he'll get at least two games, slight chance of there being more. However, the NFL policy has changed in regards to making players take anger management courses. Now, all that's required is a trip to Denver so they can let Tebow lay on his hands upon their head in a moment of Healing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 ...-not sure where you think i'm from.....i thought you enjoyed aggresive football Billy. this is much ado about nothing. nobody got hurt Hook. You make an assumption that people arent really true hard nosed football fans if they have a problem with what Suh did. That really isnt the case. I love aggressive football and I am not ignorant to the fact that the trenches get ugly but to say "He didnt get hurt" as a defense for a guy that blatantly stomped a guy laying on the ground for all to see is pretty ridiculous. I agree that some of the hits being flagged now used to be considered good football and I certainly dont agree with all of the new rule changes but that doesnt put me on the side of defending Suh and passing off what he did as aggressive. IMO it was pretty cowardly . Smushing a guys head into the floor and then stomping him while he is down is pretty weak sauce if you ask me. Id be more impressed if he blew him off the ball and legally decked a rb or the qb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooknladder Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 (edited) Hook. You make an assumption that people arent really true hard nosed football fans if they have a problem with what Suh did. That really isnt the case. I love aggressive football and I am not ignorant to the fact that the trenches get ugly but to say "He didnt get hurt" as a defense for a guy that blatantly stomped a guy laying on the ground for all to see is pretty ridiculous. I agree that some of the hits being flagged now used to be considered good football and I certainly dont agree with all of the new rule changes but that doesnt put me on the side of defending Suh and passing off what he did as aggressive. IMO it was pretty cowardly . Smushing a guys head into the floor and then stomping him while he is down is pretty weak sauce if you ask me. Id be more impressed if he blew him off the ball and legally decked a rb or the qb Whomp.... in the begining God created the Tebow and the Suh...and God saw the Tebow and saw he was good...and God divided the Tebow from the Suh... this is great for football. my guess is that you've played some sports and, all of us who have, have occasionally digressed into poor sportsmanship...(and probably worse than a little half-assed stomp where nobody got hurt) -he who hath signed a multi-million dollar contract to be nasty, cast the first stone... Edited November 28, 2011 by hooknladder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Suh is fun to watch? He hasn't done dick this year. that is a clueless comment right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lkirc Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Can I get a ruling on whether this is still just "good old fashioned football the way men play it" or are all the effing blowhards around here who were defending this kid going to admit that he needs to check himself? This blowhard will admit he needs to check himself. The more I watch the way this team plays, the more I am convinced it is an extension of the Head Coach. Schwartz seems to encourage this stuff. I understand the value of intimidating other teams, but you cannot be successful in the NFL taking personal fouls and having your best players suspended at the most critical time of the season. Suh acted like a spoiled brat who couldn't control his temper. He will probably get a couple weeks off to get it together...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 This blowhard will admit he needs to check himself. The more I watch the way this team plays, the more I am convinced it is an extension of the Head Coach. Schwartz seems to encourage this stuff. I understand the value of intimidating other teams, but you cannot be successful in the NFL taking personal fouls and having your best players suspended at the most critical time of the season. Suh acted like a spoiled brat who couldn't control his temper. He will probably get a couple weeks off to get it together...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 This blowhard will admit he needs to check himself. The more I watch the way this team plays, the more I am convinced it is an extension of the Head Coach. Schwartz seems to encourage this stuff. I understand the value of intimidating other teams, but you cannot be successful in the NFL taking personal fouls and having your best players suspended at the most critical time of the season. Suh acted like a spoiled brat who couldn't control his temper. He will probably get a couple weeks off to get it together...... I cant believe that he had the balls to deny that he stomped on the guy and honestly believes he is the focus of persecution "becasue he is just so big and strong". Suh is delusional and is now hurting his team because of his lack of self control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 This blowhard will admit he needs to check himself. The more I watch the way this team plays, the more I am convinced it is an extension of the Head Coach. Schwartz seems to encourage this stuff. I understand the value of intimidating other teams, but you cannot be successful in the NFL taking personal fouls and having your best players suspended at the most critical time of the season. Suh acted like a spoiled brat who couldn't control his temper. He will probably get a couple weeks off to get it together...... kudos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 that is a clueless comment right there. Really? I guess you consider 2 tackles a game, less than 1 assist a game, and a sack about 1 out of every 4 games to be earning his keep as one of the best, if not the best, DT in the game? No forced fumbles, managed to bat down all of one pass all year. His per game numbers are WAY down from last year. But wait, other teams must be using more guys against him then. Well, then he should be helping his teammates stats a bunch this year, right? Nope, Corey Williams - per game stats slightly down; Kyle Vanden Bosch tackle stats way down sacks up to about his average; Cliff Avril about the same; Lawrence Jackson per game tackles down, sacks about the same. Other teams are running the ball better and more effectively against DET than last year. So why don't you make your case as to why I'm so clueless about Suh's substantial drop in performance this year, or maybe that's he's doing more than dick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lkirc Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Really? I guess you consider 2 tackles a game, less than 1 assist a game, and a sack about 1 out of every 4 games to be earning his keep as one of the best, if not the best, DT in the game? No forced fumbles, managed to bat down all of one pass all year. His per game numbers are WAY down from last year. But wait, other teams must be using more guys against him then. Well, then he should be helping his teammates stats a bunch this year, right? Nope, Corey Williams - per game stats slightly down; Kyle Vanden Bosch tackle stats way down sacks up to about his average; Cliff Avril about the same; Lawrence Jackson per game tackles down, sacks about the same. Other teams are running the ball better and more effectively against DET than last year. So why don't you make your case as to why I'm so clueless about Suh's substantial drop in performance this year, or maybe that's he's doing more than dick. I don't know if you can measure a DT's value using fantasy statistics. Suh does draw a lot of attention from opposing O-Lines. He should, in theory free up his teamates to make plays. The fact that the other players fantasy stats do not prove this does not mean Suh isn't doing his job. I think you can measure a DT's value only by watching the trenches, which most fans do not. A DT that draws double teams is doing his job. Period! Then it is a matter of the other players taking advantage of fewer blockers to overcome. The Lions won-loss record since they drafted Suh is probably a pretty good indication of his value to the team. Not sterling, but much improved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I don't know if you can measure a DT's value using fantasy statistics. Suh does draw a lot of attention from opposing O-Lines. He should, in theory free up his teamates to make plays. The fact that the other players fantasy stats do not prove this does not mean Suh isn't doing his job. I think you can measure a DT's value only by watching the trenches, which most fans do not. A DT that draws double teams is doing his job. Period! Then it is a matter of the other players taking advantage of fewer blockers to overcome. The Lions won-loss record since they drafted Suh is probably a pretty good indication of his value to the team. Not sterling, but much improved. Agreed. The Lions are also pressuring the QB more. Whether it is forcing the QB out of the pocket, or to make a throw before he wants to, those arent fantasy stats, but also have value to the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Really? I guess you consider 2 tackles a game, less than 1 assist a game, and a sack about 1 out of every 4 games to be earning his keep as one of the best, if not the best, DT in the game? No forced fumbles, managed to bat down all of one pass all year. His per game numbers are WAY down from last year. But wait, other teams must be using more guys against him then. Well, then he should be helping his teammates stats a bunch this year, right? Nope, Corey Williams - per game stats slightly down; Kyle Vanden Bosch tackle stats way down sacks up to about his average; Cliff Avril about the same; Lawrence Jackson per game tackles down, sacks about the same. Other teams are running the ball better and more effectively against DET than last year. So why don't you make your case as to why I'm so clueless about Suh's substantial drop in performance this year, or maybe that's he's doing more than dick. why don't you ask opposing o-linemen. are you seriously arguing that you can measure a DT's value and importance by his fantasy stats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 This blowhard will admit he needs to check himself. The more I watch the way this team plays, the more I am convinced it is an extension of the Head Coach. Schwartz seems to encourage this stuff. I understand the value of intimidating other teams, but you cannot be successful in the NFL taking personal fouls and having your best players suspended at the most critical time of the season. Suh acted like a spoiled brat who couldn't control his temper. He will probably get a couple weeks off to get it together...... it's like he's trying to remake the lions in the mold of the al davis raiders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTed46 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I don't know if you can measure a DT's value using fantasy statistics. Suh does draw a lot of attention from opposing O-Lines. He should, in theory free up his teamates to make plays. The fact that the other players fantasy stats do not prove this does not mean Suh isn't doing his job. I think you can measure a DT's value only by watching the trenches, which most fans do not. A DT that draws double teams is doing his job. Period! Then it is a matter of the other players taking advantage of fewer blockers to overcome. The Lions won-loss record since they drafted Suh is probably a pretty good indication of his value to the team. Not sterling, but much improved. +1 I don't think it's an arguments to say he is currently one of the best DT playing today AND he is one of the dumbest. Take away his bad attitude and any NFL team would want this guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 why don't you ask opposing o-linemen. are you seriously arguing that you can measure a DT's value and importance by his fantasy stats? I saw him getting manhadled by GB's O-line. And those aren't fantasy stats, those are football stats. Suh isn't doing dick this year. His production is way down from last year and is barely registering this year, and his teammates aren't benefiting if his drop were due to the changing of blocking schemes that put more blockers on him and thereby allowing his linemates more opportunity. Suh is a very good player - but he's not making near the impact he did last year and is barely registering this year. His reputation is far exceding his performance this year. I don't know how one could say otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkhorse1251 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I saw him getting manhadled by GB's O-line. And those aren't fantasy stats, those are football stats. Suh isn't doing dick this year. His production is way down from last year and is barely registering this year, and his teammates aren't benefiting if his drop were due to the changing of blocking schemes that put more blockers on him and thereby allowing his linemates more opportunity. Suh is a very good player - but he's not making near the impact he did last year and is barely registering this year. His reputation is far exceding his performance this year. I don't know how one could say otherwise. The fact that teams are scheming against him is evidence enough that he is THAT good. Look at Julius Peppers, he isn't the sack master he used to be, but he is still one of the best at his position. Stats don't really apply when it comes to Suh's position. Just because he doesn't get as many hits on Quarterback doesn't diminish his role and importance in that defense. Maybe if HE knew that, he wouldn't make such stupid moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingd Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I don't know if you can measure a DT's value using fantasy statistics. Suh does draw a lot of attention from opposing O-Lines. He should, in theory free up his teamates to make plays. The fact that the other players fantasy stats do not prove this does not mean Suh isn't doing his job. I think you can measure a DT's value only by watching the trenches, which most fans do not. A DT that draws double teams is doing his job. Period! Then it is a matter of the other players taking advantage of fewer blockers to overcome. The Lions won-loss record since they drafted Suh is probably a pretty good indication of his value to the team. Not sterling, but much improved. In most cases I would agree. Not in Suh's. I have watched him closely and it's alarming how much press he gets with as often as he gets absolutely whooped by the opposing guy - frequently one-on-one. He's made some nice plays, sure. He has his moments, ok. But no more than a couple of dozen other guys around the league, and he's not even in the same stratosphere as Haloti Ngata. I think it's fun when we see a guy come along that absolutely changes the game but Suh isn't that guy at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Suh must learn from the examples that adults set Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditkaless Wonders Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 I have only seen three Detroit games this year. I admit that is not a full sample of their work. I have noticed, however, that teams are helping out less on Suh this year than they were in the past. It has been very noticeable. I can't say if they are using shorter patterns against the Lions to negate his pass rush, but I did notice the Packers using W.R. screens more frequently than I remember them doing, and running a few more screens. If that is in fact true Suh has still had an effect. I also notice teams running at Suh a little more and I believe I saw the Packer actually run a counter into his gap. If that is also a trend teams are trying to neutralize his pursuit and instead are letting guards attack him rather than respond to him. My take, Suh is in a sophomore slump, knows it, and is frustrated by that and is acting out in frustration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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