gbpfan1231 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I left may in there...it wasn't edited...and your statement is still ludicrous. If he would have done more (like a lot of people would have done) one less child MAY have been impacted and to me that is kind of a big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I left may in there...it wasn't edited...and your statement is still ludicrous. You're wrong. I think that you're delusional if you won't admit that if Paterno had called, or made sure that McCreary called, the police, young boys may not have been molested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinity Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 "I hope they write I made Penn State a better place, not just that I was a good football coach." RIP JoePa. And leave the allegations out of this thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Well, since he died, a discussion of his legacy will now naturally ensue. And a part of that discussion is that little boys may have been molested because of his failure to act. The magnitude of that failure and overall importance to his legacy is up to the individual. Today, he passed away. IMO the legacy discussion can wait until some of the emotion dies down. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Today, he passed away. IMO the legacy discussion can wait until some of the emotion dies down. . . I don't think so. The dude starts fading away tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isleseeya Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 not sure if he's passed or not, but I do believe he made his peace with the Lord, and at the very moment he did that, his slate is wiped clean and God forgave him and instantly hit the reset button. What a comforting feeling that is:) I would like to believe this and while others have criticized this post , i certainly wont ...If Joe Pa led the life of a believer and did the best he could as a person and truly asked for forgiveness for the mistake he made in this scandal , then i would believe he has been welcomed home by our Maker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chargerz Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Sad end for what was for many years a great career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caddyman Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 No argument there. I think those convicted of committing horrible acts on children should be given life in prison at a minimum. Let me ask you a question. What if you are wrong about him? What if he did contribute to additional kids being raped by his insactions? IF there was proof he did do something would you then agree he is a slimeball? Or dies the fact that he gave back a bunch of money to PSU override any possible mistake he made? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Let me ask you a question. What if you are wrong about him? What if he did contribute to additional kids being raped by his insactions? IF there was proof he did do something would you then agree he is a slimeball? Or dies the fact that he gave back a bunch of money to PSU override any possible mistake he made? If I'm wrong and it is proven that he did knowingly cover-up for Sandusky, I would absolutely agree that he is a slimeball. Everything else he has done wouldn't matter. If he actually, knowingly did things to cover up and allow that maniac to continue abusing kids, I would detest him. I just don't believe that is the case. By the way, I'm less impressed with money he donated, and more impressed with the countless number of former players and coaches who attribute him with making them a better man. Many players considered him a 2nd father, and for some the father figure they never had. Edited January 23, 2012 by Menudo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunning Runt Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Did not read any of the other posts, but my take is that his legacy should absolutely be tarnished. In my opinion his actions, or inactions if you will, trump everything else that ever happened prior. I consider his legacy to be that of a person who covered up for a child rapist and to me, that's how I'll remember him - an old guy that coached way too long, then made a terrible decision involving a child rapist which in essence served to cover for him. Yep - that's is in fact, how I'll remember him. Edited January 23, 2012 by Cunning Runt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 By the way, I'm less impressed with money he donated, and more impressed with the countless number of former players and coaches who attribute him with making them a better man. Many players considered him a 2nd father, and for some the father figure they never had. Here's the thing about this argument with me: If it had been one of his players that was being abused, would he have done more to make sure it never happened again? If the answer is "no", then his reputation as a father-figure for his players is undeserved; if the answer is "yes" then the conclusion one has to draw is not very pretty either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Agent Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Maybe Paterno is a Christian. Maybe he made amends and repented. Maybe he gets into Heaven. But on Earth he was a coward that put a football program above a bunch of innocent kids. So Oprah him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polksalet Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Maybe Paterno is a Christian. Maybe he made amends and repented. Maybe he gets into Heaven. But on Earth he was a coward that put a football program above a bunch of innocent kids. So Oprah him. Not the.program, he put himself above rape victims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caddyman Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 If I'm wrong and it is proven that he did knowingly cover-up for Sandusky, I would absolutely agree that he is a slimeball. Everything else he has done wouldn't matter. If he actually, knowingly did things to cover up and allow that maniac to continue abusing kids, I would detest him. I just don't believe that is the case. By the way, I'm less impressed with money he donated, and more impressed with the countless number of former players and coaches who attribute him with making them a better man. Many players considered him a 2nd father, and for some the father figure they never had. Again, none of what he did matters if you believe he contributed in any way whatsoever to a kid being raped. That is one of my biggest issues with his defenders. No amount of good outweighs a kid getting raped. So by continuing to say that he did this or that is silly. There is only one issue here. Did he or did he not continue to allow kids to get raped? If he did...then NOTHING ELSE MATTERS. If he did not, then he got screwed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 menudo, stop trying to craft the guys legacy. bringing up articles that talk about integrity are hollow. imagine someone you trust coming to you and sharing seeing something like this. you then turn around and report it to campus police. after awhile, NOTHING HAPPENS. in fact, the guy is still coming around, still around kids. you are at a crossroads. do i jeopardize the status of my program by making this a bigger issue or do i look the other way because i feel like i've let someone else know. i can't fathom seeing someone here in my office who was accused of this, by an eyewitness, continue to walk around with no full investigation happening. can you imagine going on about your day with someone like that walking around your office ... even if you see the person still bringing kids in? the assistant that accused him was not fired, so he's still there too. makes no sense other than, i want to protect this program. i'm going to look the other way on something horrific to protect what i believe is bigger than a child's welfare. that's the legacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 if you want to shorten it, his legacy can just be joe "i shoulda done more" paterno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditkaless Wonders Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Watching ESPN this morning and viewing the tributes to the man by his ex-players and by the students on campus was interesting. With no intention towards irony they lauded Paterno's integrity. The spoke glowingly of his concern for developing youth into responsible adults. They spoke of his moral leadership and that he was an example they should emulate in their own lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 menudo, stop trying to craft the guys legacy. bringing up articles that talk about integrity are hollow. imagine someone you trust coming to you and sharing seeing something like this. you then turn around and report it to campus police. after awhile, NOTHING HAPPENS. in fact, the guy is still coming around, still around kids. you are at a crossroads. do i jeopardize the status of my program by making this a bigger issue or do i look the other way because i feel like i've let someone else know. i can't fathom seeing someone here in my office who was accused of this, by an eyewitness, continue to walk around with no full investigation happening. can you imagine going on about your day with someone like that walking around your office ... even if you see the person still bringing kids in? the assistant that accused him was not fired, so he's still there too. makes no sense other than, i want to protect this program. i'm going to look the other way on something horrific to protect what i believe is bigger than a child's welfare. that's the legacy. That's the thing. A couple of players sell their spamshirts, you tell the guy you're supposed to tell and then move on, hoping nothing comes of it. At that point, you did what you were supposed to do and pushing the issue is almost silly, because, in the big picture, it's not a horrible crime and you'd just as soon as it not cost you bowl games or scholarships or having your best players suspended. But, when you have the power that Jo Pa had, there's nobody "above you" in the chain of command. Guys could say, "Everything is being taken care of" and you still should ask "What, exactly is being done?" Let us not forget that Sandusky was the heir apparent until he, all of a sudden, leaves the program to devote more time to his charity in the late 90s. Considering all I hear about how college programs are a total fish bowl. How many former players from every program all say the same thing. "Everything you do, the coach will end up finding out about." How, through two incidents that happened at PSU, was a guy as big to the program as Paterno, kept in the dark to the degree he was? I can't imagine a guy not wanting to be kept in the dark, could have been. 1) He had to know that something went sideways with Sandusky in 98. Even if he didn't know exactly what (though he was his main assistant so I would have expected he push for details. Imagine a CEO being told, in vague terms that it was in the best interest of the company that his senior VP resign to go work on a charity. You don't think he'd ask for a little more detail?) 2) In light of that, when McQueary came to him and told him, even omitting details, that something nasty went down. I'm sorry, but at that point, it is freaking on. If you're the man that all these tributes make you out to be, that's when you show what you're made of and put all other issues aside until you've made sure that justice is done and that no other children will be exposed to this monster. I wasn't planning on posting anything in this thread, but what the hell. And, to be fair, this is just my opinion. Maybe the AD and Pres managed to pull the greatest cover-up in college sports history. I just have a hard time believing that. I figured I'd give the guy a day to rest in peace, but I guess I'm tired of hearing the number of people trying to somehow try to balance the good versus the bad. Which implies they believe that he is culpable to a degree and yet still insist on trying to remind us of all the good he did. And I agree with others. I don't give two craps about what good you did in your life if you also did this? You deserve no honor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 should Paterno be held to a different standard, just because the (alleged) bad thing happened after 50 years of doing good? If he knew about boys being abused on his clock and didn't do anything about it, absolutely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 The thing is for some people any response short of "I wish he was gutted and hung" is read that you are an apologist and are willing to look past what he did. Some people are just sad and shocked that a man they looked at with so much respect and admiration for so many years ended up being a coward. Pains me to say that because, while I am not a hugh college football guy, my favorite team is Penn State. Your # 1 priority as an adult is to protect the young and he and many others in this scandal didnt do that. That is unforgiveable. It just goes to show that we dont truly know the famous people we admire . In the other thread I think GodTomSatan put it best I'm sad that his great failure is his legacy and not his many successes. No one deserves that fate, but it is what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Here is what is not in question: Joe Pa was told by McQueary that Sandusky was showering with little boys. Sandusky was not arrested after Joe Pa reported Sandusky's transgressions to The AD and campus police. (It is interesting that Campus police never decided to report this to State Police and chose not to investigate it further.) Joe Pa allowed this issue to rest and did not confront Sandusky or bar him from campus. Sandusky was seen multiple times on campus and was still "unofficially" associated with PSU after Joe Pa was informed of this. Sandusky was finally barred from campus in 2011, nine years after the first incident was brought to the attention of the Joe Pa, the AD and head of campus police. Joe Pa was a very good football coach and did a good bit for PSU and the community, not unlike many college coaches (Saban gave $1,000,000 to help the victims of the Tuscaloosa Tornado.) His big failing was his willingness to cover up the activities of friends for the well being of the program, not unlike many other college coaches. Let's face it, be honest about it, the football program and the aggrandizement of PSU was what Paterno sought, he would do anything, anything, to not tarnish his or the schools image and in attempting to do so he had a major moral failure. It is a sad day for PSU fans and for college football. One of the icons of NCAA football has passed, however, the biggest blow to NCAA football occurred a few months ago when it was discovered that one of its icons placed football before the well being of young kids. RIP Joe Pa, you were a great football coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 The thing is for some people any response short of "I wish he was gutted and hung" is read that you are an apologist and are willing to look past what he did. Some people are just sad and shocked that a man they looked at with so much respect and admiration for so many years ended up being a coward. Pains me to say that because, while I am not a hugh college football guy, my favorite team is Penn State. Your # 1 priority as an adult is to protect the young and he and many others in this scandal didnt do that. That is unforgiveable. It just goes to show that we dont truly know the famous people we admire . In the other thread I think GodTomSatan put it best I, for one, have a different definition of apologist than someone who simply doesn't come out and say he should have been "gutted and hung" and have seen plenty written and said that fits that definition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I, for one, have a different definition of apologist than someone who simply doesn't come out and say he should have been "gutted and hung" and have seen plenty written and said that fits that definition. Not directed at you neccesarily but I have seen many people getting shamed for feeling any sorrow that Joe Pa died. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Not directed at you neccesarily but I have seen many people getting shamed for feeling any sorrow that Joe Pa died. completely disagree. i see no one shamed for feeling sorrow. i see people being shamed for trying to defend his "legacy". the notion that he did more good than bad should be shamed. i would go as far as to say that what joepa did (or didn't do) symbolizes all that is wrong with college sports today, which is putting the reputation of a program above what is the right thing to do, with penn state being the extreme example (ohio st. the same, but with wrongdoing on a far more minor level in comparison). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caddyman Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 completely disagree. i see no one shamed for feeling sorrow. i see people being shamed for trying to defend his "legacy". the notion that he did more good than bad should be shamed. i would go as far as to say that what joepa did (or didn't do) symbolizes all that is wrong with college sports today, which is putting the reputation of a program above what is the right thing to do, with penn state being the extreme example (ohio st. the same, but with wrongdoing on a far more minor level in comparison). Yep...that is my whole issue with Menudo and his other defenders. The amount of good he has done should not even be in the discussion. If you do something evil, your previous amounts of good get wiped out. Sorry. The only issue is whether you believe he COULD have done something to stop it or not. He was sure pretty good at controlling every other aspect of the program. But for some reason we are to believe that telling the campus police about something was the best he could do. Please. The guy was penn state. Whatever he wanted to happen happened. There is no way in hell they could have fired his ass without having him dead to rights. If he was squeaky clean, he would have screamed from the mountain top when those lowly board members fired him. That man never took anything lying down. He was always arrogant. Even when he was completely in the wrong he would act like someone else was a fool. If he was wronged in his termination and had nothing to hide, bet your ass you would have heard about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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