Joe Paterno is at death's door

[Menudo]

I'll say one last thing on this, even though I said I would leave it alone. Joe's side of the story is out there among the insiders and those close to the family. It has been passed along by word from his son, who is an attorney. He has stated several times that it would eventually come out in public, but, he was waiting for legal processes to take place. I'm confident that it will still come out. What people will believe is up to them. I believe Joe's side of the story based upon the kind of man he showed himself to be throughout his life. If it turns out it isn't true, then I will be the first to admit that I was fooled and that there is no way to forgive Paterno. Even with his side of the story, I still wish he would have done more, as does Joe. He admitted as much. Here is his side of the story from what has been released on PSU boards for weeks now.

 

Based up on the allegations in 1998/99, Paterno forced Sandusky into retirement. Sandusky was never prosecuted, but was accused of indecent behavior.

 

Sandusky continued to show up on campus, and Paterno asked the President, Graham Spanier to ban him from the campus. He was told that he (Joe) didn't have the power to ban him, and Spanier would not do so, as he hadn't been convicted of anything.

 

The shower incident occurred and McQueary reported vague details of the incident to Paterno. Paterno did know it was sexual in nature, and he told McQueary he would pass on the information.

 

Paterno met with the Athletiic Director and the head of the campus police and reported the incident that was told to him from McQueary.

 

After nothing happened for 3 days, Paterno followed-up and was told a full investigation was occurring.

 

Having heard nothing, 3 months later, Paterno followed-up again and was told that the police and DA did not feel they had enough evidence and weren't going to pursue the matter any further. Paterno was angry and asked that Sandusky be banned from the university entirely and not be allowed to attend anything involved with the football program. He was told that as football coach, he did not have the power to ban Sandusky.

 

 

That is the story that has been passed down from trusted sources in the past at FightOnState.com It is the story that Paterno's son says that Paterno has been waiting to tell. I'm hoping Joe's side still gets told when there aren't any legal issues holding him back. Remember that he wanted to speak at a press conference after this first came out, and he was stopped by the University. Then, his lawyer son has advised him to wait before telling his story.

 

Based on Paterno's past history, I don't believe for a second that he would turn his head and allow these acts to continue. Even if his story is true, I still agree with him that in hindsight he could have done more. However, if his story is true, he certainly didn't just bury his head in the sand either.

[Furd]

I'll C & P from the other thread:

 

McQueary testified to the grand jury, among other things:

 

 

"I went to his house and sat at his kitchen table and told him I saw Jerry with a young boy in the shower. That it was way over the lines and extremely sexual in nature. The rough positioning I described but not in much detail." He said Paterno told him, "Sorry you had to see that. You did the right thing." Paterno followed up with him several times in the months following the incident, McQueary testified.

 

Paterno testfied, after being instructed not to go into graphic detail (which boggles my mind):

 

 

Q: Without getting into any graphic detail, what did Mr. McQueary tell you he had seen and where?

 

Mr. Paterno: Well, he had seen a person, an older — not an older, but a mature person who was fondling, whatever you might call it — I’m not sure what the term would be — a young boy.

 

Q: Did he identify who that older person was?

 

Mr. Paterno: Yes, a man by the name of Jerry Sandusky who had been one of our coaches, was not at the time.

 

Q: You’re saying that at the time this incident was reported to you, Sandusky was no longer a coach?

Mr. Paterno: No, he had retired voluntarily. I’m not sure exactly the year, but I think it was either ‘98 or ‘99.

 

Q: I think you used the term fondling. Is that the term that you used?

 

Mr. Paterno: Well, I don’t know what you would call it. Obviously, he was doing something with the youngster.

 

It was a sexual nature. I’m not sure exactly what it was.

 

I didn’t push Mike to describe exactly what it was because he was very upset. Obviously, I was in a little bit of a dilemma since Mr. Sandusky was not working for me anymore.

 

So I told — I didn’t go any further than that except I knew Mike was upset and I knew some kind of inappropriate action was being taken by Jerry Sandusky with a youngster.

 

Q: Did Mike McQueary tell you where he had seen this inappropriate conduct take place?

 

Mr. Paterno: In the shower.

 

Q: Where was the shower?

 

Mr. Paterno: In the Lasch Building.

 

Q: Is that on the campus of Penn State University?

 

Mr. Paterno: It’s right on the campus.

 

Q: Did you tell Mike McQueary at that time what you were going to do with that information that he had provided to you?

 

Mr. Paterno: I don’t know whether I was specific or not. I did tell Mike, Mike, you did what was right; you told me.

 

Even though Jerry does not work for the football staff any longer, I would refer his concerns to the right people.

 

Q: You recall this taking place on a Saturday morning, the conversation with Mike?

 

Mr. Paterno: Yes.

 

Q: When did you — did you do something with that information?

 

Mr. Paterno: Well, I can’t be precise.

 

I ordinarily would have called people right away, but it was a Saturday morning and I didn’t want to interfere with their weekends.

 

So I don’t know whether I did it Saturday or did it early the next week.

 

I’m not sure when, but I did it within the week.

 

Paterno did not act like a "great man" in that instance. He did not act like a man at all. And we may never know what he knew or inferred or reasonably should have inferred about Sandusky over the course of many years.

 

I suspose its up to each one of us to look at that, and to look at the other acts in his life, and arrive at our own conclusions about Paternos legacy.

 

Me, I'm not reveling in his death. But I couldn't give two sh*ts about him and his legacy. I think that you have your head deep in the sand if you are celebrating a man who didn't question McQueary, who didn't call the police and who didn't even want to bother his superiors after he learned that a man "fondled" and engaged in conduct of a "sexual nature" with a young boy.

[bpwallace49]

I'll say one last thing on this, even though I said I would leave it alone. Joe's side of the story is out there among the insiders and those close to the family. It has been passed along by word from his son, who is an attorney. He has stated several times that it would eventually come out in public, but, he was waiting for legal processes to take place. I'm confident that it will still come out. What people will believe is up to them. I believe Joe's side of the story based upon the kind of man he showed himself to be throughout his life. If it turns out it isn't true, then I will be the first to admit that I was fooled and that there is no way to forgive Paterno. Even with his side of the story, I still wish he would have done more, as does Joe. He admitted as much. Here is his side of the story from what has been released on PSU boards for weeks now.

 

Based up on the allegations in 1998/99, Paterno forced Sandusky into retirement. Sandusky was never prosecuted, but was accused of indecent behavior.

 

Sandusky continued to show up on campus, and Paterno asked the President, Graham Spanier to ban him from the campus. He was told that he (Joe) didn't have the power to ban him, and Spanier would not do so, as he hadn't been convicted of anything.

 

The shower incident occurred and McQueary reported vague details of the incident to Paterno. Paterno did know it was sexual in nature, and he told McQueary he would pass on the information.

 

Paterno met with the Athletiic Director and the head of the campus police and reported the incident that was told to him from McQueary.

 

After nothing happened for 3 days, Paterno followed-up and was told a full investigation was occurring.

 

Having heard nothing, 3 months later, Paterno followed-up again and was told that the police and DA did not feel they had enough evidence and weren't going to pursue the matter any further. Paterno was angry and asked that Sandusky be banned from the university entirely and not be allowed to attend anything involved with the football program. He was told that as football coach, he did not have the power to ban Sandusky.

 

 

That is the story that has been passed down from trusted sources in the past at FightOnState.com It is the story that Paterno's son says that Paterno has been waiting to tell. I'm hoping Joe's side still gets told when there aren't any legal issues holding him back. Remember that he wanted to speak at a press conference after this first came out, and he was stopped by the University. Then, his lawyer son has advised him to wait before telling his story.

 

Based on Paterno's past history, I don't believe for a second that he would turn his head and allow these acts to continue. Even if his story is true, I still agree with him that in hindsight he could have done more. However, if his story is true, he certainly didn't just bury his head in the sand either.

 

 

So just to confirm . . . . your sources that are dedicated to Jopa no matter what believe he is completely in teh right?

 

What a shocker . . .

 

menudo . . . can you see that these "sources" are widely NOT objective in their assimilation of the information at hand?

[whomper]

completely disagree. i see no one shamed for feeling sorrow. i see people being shamed for trying to defend his "legacy". the notion that he did more good than bad should be shamed. i would go as far as to say that what joepa did (or didn't do) symbolizes all that is wrong with college sports today, which is putting the reputation of a program above what is the right thing to do, with penn state being the extreme example (ohio st. the same, but with wrongdoing on a far more minor level in comparison).

 

 

Using facebook for example, which I know is not a very strong barometer , I saw a lot of "Why all the sympathy for Joe Paterno, he should rot in hell" updates yesterday with people swarming to agree. I can see why people feel that way but those people act as if people that feel bad about Joe Pa dying condone what he did. Personally I think he acted as a coward . I am sad that a guy I respected dissapointed me in one of the worst ways that you can dissapoint someone. I am sad because I am dissapointed , not because I still support him. I acknowledge the good he has done and his legendary football mind but the bad is too big in this case to balance the good

[tonorator]

you are digging a bigger hole menudo.

 

he knew. you imply he was unhappy with the university response. he was not unhappy enough, however, to make this public or call the police, beyond the campus police, that are governed by the university. he could have gone to the press. he had many options to do the right thing, and he didn't. he then admitted he should have done more. he only admitted this when his job was in jeopardy and even in the midst of all this, he was still trying to protect his reputation by dictating his terms as to how he would step down.

 

pathetic. pathetic. pathetic.

[tonorator]

and your take on his take disagrees with his direct testimony. he said sandusky voluntarily retired. you say he forced him to.

[caddyman]

you are digging a bigger hole menudo.

 

he knew. you imply he was unhappy with the university response. he was not unhappy enough, however, to make this public or call the police, beyond the campus police, that are governed by the university. he could have gone to the press. he had many options to do the right thing, and he didn't. he then admitted he should have done more. he only admitted this when his job was in jeopardy and even in the midst of all this, he was still trying to protect his reputation by dictating his terms as to how he would step down.

 

pathetic. pathetic. pathetic.

Honestly not as pathetic as those blindly defending him.

[caddyman]

I'll say one last thing on this, even though I said I would leave it alone. Joe's side of the story is out there among the insiders and those close to the family. It has been passed along by word from his son, who is an attorney. He has stated several times that it would eventually come out in public, but, he was waiting for legal processes to take place. I'm confident that it will still come out. What people will believe is up to them. I believe Joe's side of the story based upon the kind of man he showed himself to be throughout his life. If it turns out it isn't true, then I will be the first to admit that I was fooled and that there is no way to forgive Paterno. Even with his side of the story, I still wish he would have done more, as does Joe. He admitted as much. Here is his side of the story from what has been released on PSU boards for weeks now.

 

Based up on the allegations in 1998/99, Paterno forced Sandusky into retirement. Sandusky was never prosecuted, but was accused of indecent behavior.

 

Sandusky continued to show up on campus, and Paterno asked the President, Graham Spanier to ban him from the campus. He was told that he (Joe) didn't have the power to ban him, and Spanier would not do so, as he hadn't been convicted of anything.

 

The shower incident occurred and McQueary reported vague details of the incident to Paterno. Paterno did know it was sexual in nature, and he told McQueary he would pass on the information.

 

Paterno met with the Athletiic Director and the head of the campus police and reported the incident that was told to him from McQueary.

 

After nothing happened for 3 days, Paterno followed-up and was told a full investigation was occurring.

 

Having heard nothing, 3 months later, Paterno followed-up again and was told that the police and DA did not feel they had enough evidence and weren't going to pursue the matter any further. Paterno was angry and asked that Sandusky be banned from the university entirely and not be allowed to attend anything involved with the football program. He was told that as football coach, he did not have the power to ban Sandusky.

 

 

That is the story that has been passed down from trusted sources in the past at FightOnState.com It is the story that Paterno's son says that Paterno has been waiting to tell. I'm hoping Joe's side still gets told when there aren't any legal issues holding him back. Remember that he wanted to speak at a press conference after this first came out, and he was stopped by the University. Then, his lawyer son has advised him to wait before telling his story.

 

Based on Paterno's past history, I don't believe for a second that he would turn his head and allow these acts to continue. Even if his story is true, I still agree with him that in hindsight he could have done more. However, if his story is true, he certainly didn't just bury his head in the sand either.

Hey, I know you are a genuine person and not trying to be difficult. But the more I read this post of your, the madder I get. This man who you believe did nothing wrong was fired and still not one PUBLIC thing has come out that shows he was wrongfully terminated. The best you can come up with is the "insider" story. Do you ahve any idea how many reporters there are trying to get to the bottom of this story? Or how about the amount of people that worship joe that are trying to show the world he was wronged? Not one piece of credible info has come out that can even make anyone think he got screwed. Not one. Think about that. The hordes of people that loved him and not one of them can show us anything that would help his case.

[tonorator]

Hey, I know you are a genuine person and not trying to be difficult. But the more I read this post of your, the madder I get. This man who you believe did nothing wrong was fired and still not one PUBLIC thing has come out that shows he was wrongfully terminated. The best you can come up with is the "insider" story. Do you ahve any idea how many reporters there are trying to get to the bottom of this story? Or how about the amount of people that worship joe that are trying to show the world he was wronged? Not one piece of credible info has come out that can even make anyone think he got screwed. Not one. Think about that. The hordes of people that loved him and not one of them can show us anything that would help his case.

 

even if everything menudo shared "comes out", the net result will still be the same as today. he should have done more, and since he didn't, he put his own needs above those of children who were abused. that's what i was calling pathetic.

 

i understand menudo wanting this to be better, along with other loyal penn staters. they have learned that joepa protecting his own greatness was more important than protecting kids. that's tough to take after putting the guy on a pedestal for so many years.

[Azazello1313]

Paterno admitted that he wished he had done more, and I agree that he should have.

 

you probably ought to just leave it at that, rather than going on further to defend his reaction (or lack thereof).

[detlef]

you probably ought to just leave it at that, rather than going on further to defend his reaction (or lack thereof).

I keep coming back to this. Take one of us. Say, as some random guy, we're privy to the sort of info Paterno had. I could very easily see one of, as some random guy, trying to follow up and ultimately being told, "Hey man, we're doing what we can. You're going to need to let this go." Then, one day, when it comes out that dude kept on raping boys, we'd be sick to our stomach wondering if there truly was anything more we could have done. Thing is, there might not have been, because none of us are a national icon.

 

For one of us, it might have been some quixotic deal. The kind of things you see in movies where this guy takes on the police department and basically ruins his life trying to seek justice until some lawyer played by John Travolta comes along and nearly bankrupts his practice helping us out pro bono. That sort of thing. If a guy like that says, "I wish I would have done more", you understand where he's coming from.

 

But when Paterno says, "I wish I would have done more" I'm left with the thought of, no crap. I wish you would have as well. Because you're freaking Joe Paterno! You, apparently built PSU into what it is. I'm sure, if you want something done, it gets done. I'm guessing the "you're just the football coach" card did not go over too well with him in plenty of occasions, assuming someone was bold enough to play it. Why this time?

[tonorator]

Why this time?

 

because this one would hurt his ability to recruit ...

[detlef]

because this one would hurt his ability to recruit ...

I'm going to go with something a bit less sinister but I hear you. Given the number of people who keep insisting that we look at all the good PSU did. All the great ways they helped build men and such, I could certainly see a guy like Paterno being convinced that they risked their ability to continue to do all that good if they made this bigger than it was. That they should just try to quietly deal with Sandusky, blah, blah, blah.

 

Mind you, that's still BS, but it seems like something you could sell a guy who has been adored and deified for decades.

[Azazello1313]

Based up on the allegations in 1998/99, Paterno forced Sandusky into retirement. Sandusky was never prosecuted, but was accused of indecent behavior.

 

Sandusky continued to show up on campus, and Paterno asked the President, Graham Spanier to ban him from the campus. He was told that he (Joe) didn't have the power to ban him, and Spanier would not do so, as he hadn't been convicted of anything.

 

The shower incident occurred and McQueary reported vague details of the incident to Paterno. Paterno did know it was sexual in nature, and he told McQueary he would pass on the information.

 

Paterno met with the Athletiic Director and the head of the campus police and reported the incident that was told to him from McQueary.

 

After nothing happened for 3 days, Paterno followed-up and was told a full investigation was occurring.

 

Having heard nothing, 3 months later, Paterno followed-up again and was told that the police and DA did not feel they had enough evidence and weren't going to pursue the matter any further. Paterno was angry and asked that Sandusky be banned from the university entirely and not be allowed to attend anything involved with the football program. He was told that as football coach, he did not have the power to ban Sandusky.

 

 

That is the story that has been passed down from trusted sources in the past at FightOnState.com It is the story that Paterno's son says that Paterno has been waiting to tell.

 

that just doesn't jibe with, for one thing, the sworn testimony paterno gave and furd quoted. if this story were true, when he was asked about it later, he would have said, "Yeah, I forced him out in 98 because I knew he was doing this stuff". Instead he just says, under oath, that sandusky "retired voluntarily". and in an interview, paterno said he knew nothing about the 1998 investigation. was he lying under oath, and in interviews after the fact trying to cover his ass? or is this latest attempt to re-cast the narrative by his apologists just full of it? gotta be one or the other, if not both.

 

I'm sorry, but this notion that joe pa kept pressing the issue only to be thwarted by his superiors is laughable on its face, and totally contradicted by his actions and statements all along. everything he said and did was to try and wish the issue away, to try and minimize it and sweep it under the rug. he didn't ask mcqueary exactly what he saw, because he didn't want to know. he never admitted to knowing anything about previous accusations, and swore under oath that sandusky left voluntarily. in joe's own words,

"I didn't know which way to go, And rather than get in there and make a mistake," he told the Post before trailing off.

coward. pure and simple. and that cowardice cost many boys dearly.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Azazello1313

[bpwallace49]

that just doesn't jibe with, for one thing, the sworn testimony paterno gave and furd quoted. if this story were true, when he was asked about it later, he would have said, "Yeah, I forced him out in 98 because I knew he was doing this stuff". Instead he just says, under oath, that sandusky "retired voluntarily". and in an interview, paterno said he knew nothing about the 1998 investigation. was he lying under oath, and in interviews after the fact trying to cover his ass? or is this latest attempt to re-cast the narrative by his apologists just full of it?

 

I'm sorry, but this notion that joe pa kept pressing the issue only to be thwarted by his superiors is laughable on its face, and totally contradicted by his actions and statements all along. everything he said and did was to try and wish the issue away, to try and minimize it and sweep it under the rug. he didn't ask mcqueary exactly what he saw, because he didn't want to know. he never admitted to knowing anything about previous accusations, and swore under oath that sandusky left voluntarily. in joe's own words,

 

coward. pure and simple. and that cowardice cost many boys dearly.

 

Well said . . . .

[tazinib1]

I've stayed away from these threads for a reason. Nauseating. I hope this is the last post.

[gbpfan1231]

I've stayed away from these threads for a reason. Nauseating. I hope this is the last post.

Nope

[Ursa Majoris]

I've stayed away from these threads for a reason. Nauseating. I hope this is the last post.

Not a chance. There's one in the main forum, another in the College forum and this one too. These on top of the ones we've already had.

[Azazello1313]

Joe's side of the story is out there among the insiders and those close to the family. It has been passed along by word from his son, who is an attorney. I believe Joe's side of the story based upon the kind of man he showed himself to be throughout his life. Here is his side of the story from what has been released on PSU boards for weeks now.

 

Based up on the allegations in 1998/99, Paterno forced Sandusky into retirement. Sandusky was never prosecuted, but was accused of indecent behavior.

 

Sandusky continued to show up on campus, and Paterno asked the President, Graham Spanier to ban him from the campus. He was told that he (Joe) didn't have the power to ban him, and Spanier would not do so, as he hadn't been convicted of anything.

 

they will have to square that with:

JENKINS: Why did he (Sandusky) suddenly retire in 1999?

 

PATERNO: He came to me and talked about being a head coach, because the university that year had put in a voluntary retirement. He came to see me and we talked a little about his career. I said you know Jerry, you want to be a head coach, you can't do as much as you're doing with the other operation. I said this job takes so much detail and for you to think you can go off and get involved in fundraising and a lot of things like that.I said you can't do both, that's basically what I told him. I didn't even have him recruiting.

 

 

JENKINS: People have speculated that you had knowledge of the 1998 police investigation. You didn't hear any whispers, rumors, reports before Mike McQueary spoke to you in 2002?

 

PATERNO: I had never heard a thing.

[MrTed46]

I've stayed away from these threads for a reason. Nauseating. I hope this is the last post.

 

Stop defending him

[Joessfl]

Stop defending him

 

We have defended since the 70's.

[tazinib1]

Stop defending him

 

You are smoking Josh Gordon if you think for one minute that I'm defending him.

[caddyman]

I've stayed away from these threads for a reason. Nauseating. I hope this is the last post.

I agree...let's never talk about him again. Let's not honor him at the home opener next year, let's not commemorate him on the uniform, let's not talk about all the money he gave to PSU, let's give him OJ status and know that he never was the man he pretended to be. By Joe, don't let the door hit you in the ass.

[MrTed46]

You are smoking Josh Gordon if you think for one minute that I'm defending him.

 

i was kidding

[tazinib1]

i was kidding

 

:whew:

 

Probably needed a Isleeya emoticon there to ensure me.