piratesownninjas Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) if you have gone to NA meetings, then surely you agree that addiction is a disease with no cure, only treatable. Recovery is a lifelong occurance, an addict will never be cured. I don;t think I will ever use again, but b/c I am an addict, relapse is always possible. An addict's mind sets traps for the body to fail, other addicts set traps, an addict is never safe from relapsing. 1 is too many and a 1,000 is never enough. We Do Recover. There is no way I can answer and not piss you off. Like I said, I went to many, many meetings with my ex, and went out to dinner afterwards with a lot of her friends from the meetings. They tried to argue this with me over and over again. I don't put it out there unless I'm asked, as it always fires up someone for having an opinion that goes against the 12 steps. When dating that girl at the time I dove in headfirst to reading about addiction, and my conclusion, that I got from a Bio--chemist is that addiction is not a disease, but a metabolic disorder that has life crisis symptons. I believe that NA is set up to fail, and it doesn't have to be that way. NA in my opinion is not a treatment, but a support group. I respect your opinion, and I hope the system works for you, and I'd have no problems pointing you in the direction that I believed after seeing it work for that ex of mine. Edited February 7, 2012 by piratesownninjas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Agent Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Sex tape rumors floating. link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delicious_bass Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 no offense, but you don't understand what you are saying... addiction is a disease. it is treatable, but not curable. I know this all too well and this is documented in all health publications. and if you get lung cancer because you smoke cigarettes, then that is your choice to have smoked in the first place, but you still have a disease (lung cancer). and if you get lung cancer because you smoke cigarettes, then that is your choice to have smoked in the first place, but you still have a disease (lung cancer). My name is Scooby's Hubby and I am an addict ... if you have gone to NA meetings, then surely you agree that addiction is a disease with no cure, only treatable. Recovery is a lifelong occurance, an addict will never be cured. I don;t think I will ever use again, but b/c I am an addict, relapse is always possible. An addict's mind sets traps for the body to fail, other addicts set traps, an addict is never safe from relapsing. 1 is too many and a 1,000 is never enough. We Do Recover. and if you get lung cancer because you smoke cigarettes, then that is your choice to have smoked in the first place, but you still have a disease (lung cancer). I know people who can use on say New Years Eve and not use until the next year, they are not addicts. I know people who only burn at concerts or at an anual golf tourney, then go home and never even think of using. Addicts on the other hand have to have it at all times, it consumes them and thier every thought. Nothing matters but feeding their addiction. I completely understand what I am saying. Do you? You seem to have taken a few swings at it there... Obviously, if someone smokes cigarettes, they increase their risk of getting cancer and likely will. Only the grandest of fools cant see the cause/effect relationship there. You would not say the lung cancer caused the smoking, though, would you? Let me ask you this...had you never made the conscious choice to ingest whatever substance(s) it is you are hooked on, would substance abuse be a problem in your life? Had you never purposely indulged in the rush/high/buzz/etc, would there be an issue? Did you wake up one day craving something you had never experienced? Or did you choose the experience, like it, and then find it was a struggle to go without it? You said before there is no cure. Want me to tell you why that is? Last questions/thoughts I will leave you with...for all the people who have overcome addiction in their lives, how did they do it? Yeah, there is this program and that program and this patch and that med to help, but what did it ultimately boil down to? The person had to want to stop being a junky bad enough to tell themself no and clean up. They made the choice to beat it. How many other diseases out there can be both brought on and nullified simply by choice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby's Hubby Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) I completely understand what I am saying. Do you? You seem to have taken a few swings at it there... Obviously, if someone smokes cigarettes, they increase their risk of getting cancer and likely will. Only the grandest of fools cant see the cause/effect relationship there. You would not say the lung cancer caused the smoking, though, would you? Let me ask you this...had you never made the conscious choice to ingest whatever substance(s) it is you are hooked on, would substance abuse be a problem in your life? Had you never purposely indulged in the rush/high/buzz/etc, would there be an issue? Did you wake up one day craving something you had never experienced? Or did you choose the experience, like it, and then find it was a struggle to go without it? You said before there is no cure. Want me to tell you why that is? Last questions/thoughts I will leave you with...for all the people who have overcome addiction in their lives, how did they do it? Yeah, there is this program and that program and this patch and that med to help, but what did it ultimately boil down to? The person had to want to stop being a junky bad enough to tell themself no and clean up. They made the choice to beat it. How many other diseases out there can be both brought on and nullified simply by choice? speakng of drug and alcohol use only; having an addictive personality is with you forever. even if you choose not to use after prolonged use, you still have that personality,you are powerless over your addiction and using is unmanageable (otherwise you are not an addict if it is manageable) therefore you are still an addict. even though I choose not to use, I would not say I am "cured from addiction" I am merely preventing myself from using. I still have an addictive personality that must be comtained through whatever means. every addict I have encountered that is now clean admits that they are an addict and that there is no cure for their personality or their addiction. the word relapse comes to mind. many people who are not addicts have a hard time understanding this, no offense. those that fight addiction for their remaining life know that if you gave them a pass to use one night, that one night would not be enough and they would struggle. I could die 40 years from now having been clean those 40 years (in your words beaten addiction), but I would never tell you that I am no longer an addict, that is with me forever. recovery and cure are not the same. Let me ask you this ... I used for 22+ years, everything under the sun. I am now 70 days clean, I have no real urge to use anymore, am I cured? what about a year from now? ok, 2 years? I hope to die sober, but who knows, right? am I cured? does that mean I can go hang out at the dope house and not use? Edited March 10, 2012 by Scooby's Hubby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delicious_bass Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 speakng of drug and alcohol use only; having an addictive personality is with you forever. even if you choose not to use after prolonged use, you still have that personality,you are powerless over your addiction and using is unmanageable (otherwise you are not an addict if it is manageable) therefore you are still an addict. even though I choose not to use, I would not say I am "cured from addiction" I am merely preventing myself from using. I still have an addictive personality that must be comtained through whatever means. every addict I have encountered that is now clean admits that they are an addict and that there is no cure for their personality or their addiction. the word relapse comes to mind. many people who are not addicts have a hard time understanding this, no offense. those that fight addiction for their remaining life know that if you gave them a pass to use one night, that one night would not be enough and they would struggle. I could die 40 years from now having been clean those 40 years (in your words beaten addiction), but I would never tell you that I am no longer an addict, that is with me forever. recovery and cure are not the same. Let me ask you this ... I used for 22+ years, everything under the sun. I am now 70 days clean, I have no real urge to use anymore, am I cured? what about a year from now? ok, 2 years? I hope to die sober, but who knows, right? am I cured? does that mean I can go hang out at the dope house and not use? Luke:I don't...I don't believe it. Yoda: That is why you fail. So let me see if I have this all straight. You say addiction is a disease and it's defined by the inablility to manage the use of (for the purposes of our discussion) substances. You say you are an addict and you're powerless against the addiction. But then you say you are choosing not to use and have been clean for 70 days now with no real urge to use again? Sorry, that doesnt add up. If you are really an addict, and addiction is truly the inablility to manage the use of a substance, and you are truly powerless against the addiction, you would use all day every day til you were locked away or dead. Period. The fact that you have gone 70 days clean emphatically shows that you are indeed NOT powerless. The more you tell yourself you are, the more difficult you make it on yourself, IMO. Look, I am not trying to make light of anyone's struggles or pick on anyone. I really do mean what I said in my first post about wishing those battling addiction all the best. I just feel strongly that the more we call things diseases, the more it enables us to project blame onto something other than ourselves. The real epidemic in our country right now is how quickly everyone sems to want to "disease-ify" everything people do that is detrimental and absolve those people of responbility for their actions. By calling things diseases that are not really diseases, we're giving people a "villain" to blame rather than force them to hold themselves accountable. Its a recipe for failure, and its a scary trend. And where does it stop? Is obesity a disease? I know there are diseases that can lead to obesity, but is obesity itself a disease? What else? Anger? Promiscuity? Rudeness? Where does it stop? At what point do we draw a line between what can just happen to befall us (ie ALS) and what conditions are the direct result of choices we make? Sure, everyone's genetic makeup has a say in who they are. But most people who have the kind of problems we're talking about in this thread have them (in large part) by choice. Way to go on the 70 days clean. Keep using your power to say no and choose the life you want to lead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby's Hubby Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Bass, I know that you are a good guy and not trying to start any kind of mean spirited arguement. Thank you for keeping this a healthy debate. I get that the line of the definition of Disease has to be drawn somewhere. Also, I appreciate your opinion and that you fully support any addict who is battling their struggle of addiction. Basically, most doctors would tell you that addiction is 50% genetic predisposition and 50% poor coping skills. Thus, both our arguments can be understood. Many addicts are taught that addiction is a disease so that the addict does not blame himself on spiritual defect alone. Did you know that Joe Biden introduced the "Recognizing Addiction is a Disease Act"? Here are two links to short articles concerning "Is Addiction a Disease". I think the second link better suits our healthy debate. Please realize that I am not trying to start any fights here on thehuddle, rather I see this as a healthy debate. http://www.myaddiction.com/education/articles/addiction_disease.html http://addictionsandrecovery.org/is-addiction-a-disease.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 By calling things diseases that are not really diseases, we're giving people a "villain" to blame rather than force them to hold themselves accountable. Its a recipe for failure, and its a scary trend. And where does it stop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 This thread belongs in the Tailgate since everyone is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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