Can't believe this dude isn't in jail....

[Big John]

Nope, he stalks children at little league games.

 

Don't you mean soccer?

[SEC=UGA]

Don't you mean soccer?

 

 

Little League Soccer, yes. Kinda forgot that "Little League" has become universal for youth Baseball.

[detlef]

a closer enhanced look?

 

looks like there could be a wound on the top of his head. :oldunsure: And as this article mentions, at about :49 of the video one of the cops does appear briefly to be checking out the back of Zimmermans head.

 

From the link:

 

"what appears to be a vertical laceration or scar several inches long"

 

Now, I'm no doctor, but wouldn't it be a bit early to be expecting a scar? Oh, and if we're going to dismiss the videos as being a bit "grainy", then I'm going to assume that there's essentially no reason at all at looking at those stills.

[BillyBalata]

From the link:

 

"what appears to be a vertical laceration or scar several inches long"

 

Now, I'm no doctor, but wouldn't it be a bit early to be expecting a scar?

 

 

lol...i don't think that comment was implying that if it was a scar, that it was from a few hours ago. Rather, if anything they agree with you, it's too grainy to tell if it's a fresh laceration or a scar. We don't know, Just pointing out that there does appear that something could be there.

 

Even so yea, its still not clear what is there if anything, but that cop does take a look for a few seconds, another clue that something "could" be there.

[stevegrab]

Guys, that's a grainy video whose full size is 2 inches on your monitor. Who's not to say it happened in his shirt, which is under the jacket he's wearing? This video does nohing one way or the other and describing it in absolute terms either direction is ridiculous.

 

Furds on point with the paramedic report being key here. I'm more interested in the fact that the lead investigator wanted a manslaughter charge but got overruled down the line. That's more important than some grainy video. And I agree with SECs notion that we know 100% who began the chain of events, but that's about it.

 

I also sucks that witnesses are going first to tv stations as opposed to the authorities. And much if what the girl on the phone with him certainly isn't helping Zimmermans statements, and let's face it he has the most to gain by lying.

 

 

Yep, which I hadn't heard until several days into the massive news coverage started.

 

One also wonders how much good forensic evidence was already lost do to poor police work "he was defending himself, nevermind...". One hopes not, but you never know.

[Pope Flick]

From the link:

 

"what appears to be a vertical laceration or scar several inches long"

 

Now, I'm no doctor, but wouldn't it be a bit early to be expecting a scar? Oh, and if we're going to dismiss the videos as being a bit "grainy", then I'm going to assume that there's essentially no reason at all at looking at those stills.

 

 

I'll go out on a limb here and state that even a nice point and shoot camera is going to provide more detail than a surveillance/webcam with a resolution of 400x200 stuck up in a corner. That should be patently obvious, along with things like "Ok, sir turn around so I can get a clear shot of your injury" which is how these types of things go when they actually document something other than a car returning to a station. Ever heard of a close up?

 

ETA - that pic resolution is 352x214. If that's the best your camera can do, your camera sucks fyi.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Pope Flick

[Perchoutofwater]

It is still way too early to determine Zimmerman's guilt or innocence based on the information that is currently available to the general public. You have to think that if it was a slam dunk, Zimmerman would have been brought up on charges then and there. We simply do not have enough information to pass judgement.

 

Based on the 911 tape, it doesn't sound like he was told not to follow, but rather than he didn't have to. We don't know if he went back to the car for the gun, or if he was carrying, or at least I haven't seen anything on that. If Zimmerman instigated the fight by means other than just following Martin then he needs to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. At this point we simply don't know that he did anything more than that, prior to getting hit.

 

I do find it disturbing how people are flying off the handle over this with so little information available. A bunch of people of color are having a gathering at our courthouse in support of Martin and his family. At this point it really isn't apparent who was in the wrong.

[Duchess Jack]

I do find it disturbing how people are flying off the handle over this with so little information available. A bunch of people of color are having a gathering at our courthouse in support of Martin and his family. At this point it really isn't apparent who was in the wrong.

 

 

It kind of seems like, if people didn't gather and protest, that this might not have been looked at a second time.

[SEC=UGA]

He's been arrested for assaulting a cop, domestic violence and evidently fired from his job as a security guard for being too aggressive.

 

CBS News) - An anonymous former co-worker of George Zimmerman, the man who shot and killed unarmed teen Trayvon Martin five weeks ago, told a newspaper that Zimmerman "loved being in charge ... loved the power" and could become violent.

 

The New York Daily News reported Friday that Zimmerman was fired in 2005 from his job as a party security guard for being too aggressive, quoting a former co-worker as saying that "usually he was just a cool guy. ... But it was like Jekyll and Hyde. When the dude snapped, he snapped."

Martin funeral director: No signs of fight on body

 

As the negative reports start to mount, Zimmerman's family has come to his defense.

Robert Zimmerman, Jr. stuck up for his brother to CNN's Piers Morgan Thursday night.

"He prevented his firearm from being taken from him and used against him, and that's called saving your life," he said.

 

Zimmerman said his brother shot Martin purely in self-defense, after the teenager attacked him last month. "You return force with force and when someone assaults you," he said. "George was out of breath. He was barely conscious. The last thing that he remembers doing is moving his head from the concrete to the grass, so that if he was banged one more time, he wouldn't be wearing diapers for the rest of his life and being spoon-fed by his brother."

 

But critics, including Martin's parents, say recently released police surveillance video is proof Zimmerman's a liar. Seen on the tape, Zimmerman had no obvious face or head injuries.

 

Zimmerman Jr., Thursday night said his brother still had a broken nose. "His nose, I don't know about his head. I mean his nose is still healing. It's not healed.

 

Martin was buried in Miami. Richard Kurtz, the funeral director who prepared his body said, "We could see not physical signs like there had been a scuffle for fight."

 

Kurtz said Martin's chest had a gunshot wound, but his body had no other injuries. No marks on his hands from all the punches Zimmerman claimed had battered him.

 

A special prosecutor's now reviewing all the evidence, to decide whether Zimmerman can legitimately claim he killed to save his own life.

 

Edited March 30, 2012 by SEC=UGA

[SayItAintSoJoe]

Zimmerman’s past:

 

• Restraining order from ex-girlfriend
  
• Shoving incident with police officer
  
• Fired from previous job for being too aggressive
  

 

Martin’s past:

• Josh Gordon possession
  
• Graffiti
  
• Skipping school
  

 

Zimmerman’s account of his conversation with Martin:

 

Martin: You got a problem?

Zimmerman: No

Martin: Well you do now. (then proceeds to punch Zimmerman in the face)

 

I don’t buy it. I have yet to see anything from Martin’s past that makes me believe that he is such a bad ass that when someone tells him that they don’t have a problem with him he would attack them anyway. Conversely, I don’t see anything in Zimmerman’s past that makes me think that he would react to Martin’s alleged “You got a problem?" question, with just a simple no.

Edited March 30, 2012 by SayItAintSoJoe

[detlef]

Why is Zimmerman's father giving detailed accounts of what happened? He's saying what was said between the two and how long Martin was allegedly beating on Zimmerman despite, like virtually everyone else, he was not there. Well, I know why Zimmerman's dad is saying this, I guess I want to know why anyone gives two poops about listening to him?

 

Everything he's saying is what the police have already told us Zimmerman told them happened. But, hearing it again sounds like it validates the story when it's simply another person echoing what Zimmerman told him.

[wiegie]

Unlike most people on these boards, I am not an expert in this area, but it seems to me that the video evidence seems not quite to jibe with this:

Zimmerman said his brother shot Martin purely in self-defense, after the teenager attacked him last month. "You return force with force and when someone assaults you," he said. "George was out of breath. He was barely conscious. The last thing that he remembers doing is moving his head from the concrete to the grass, so that if he was banged one more time, he wouldn't be wearing diapers for the rest of his life and being spoon-fed by his brother."

Of course, if Zimmerman's brother is correct, then the EMT's deserve a parade in their honor for how they restored Zimmerman from near death back to life.

[detlef]

Unlike most people on these boards, I am not an expert in this area, but it seems to me that the video evidence seems not quite to jibe with this:

Of course, if Zimmerman's brother is correct, then the EMT's deserve a parade in their honor for how they restored Zimmerman from near death back to life.

 

It reminds me of what my wife always says when we're watching movies with fight scenes, say one from the Bourne series. Dude gets absolutely pummelled over the head and that's the first blow in what turns out to be a 5 minute fight.

 

And her thought is, "Who the hell is getting up from that first blow at all, let alone fighting for another several minutes and getting pummelled even more?" Sort of the same thing here. Dude was so bad off that he vaguely remembers moving his head so that he wouldn't be a vegetable the rest of his life, and, then just sort of brushes it off? Maybe he's Sly Stallone or something.

[matt770]

How come when white people smoke Josh Gordon they go to Dave Matthews shows and dance around like idiots, but when black people smoke it they just gotta start all kinds of trouble?

[stevegrab]

Somebody mentioned yesterday that they find it troubling how witnesses are coming forward and going straight to the media instead of police (or maybe going to the media after talking to police). At the gym last night there was a person being interviewed (I think it was on Anderson Cooper's show). They hid the identity including altering their voice.

 

This person didn't really have anything to add. They heard some arguing, and closed the window. Then the arguing stopped, and started again so they opened the window to listen more. Then they looked outside and saw two men on the ground struggling, but the witness couldn't or didn't tell us who was on top, who was hitting who. (It was dark, and raining and so on.) Nor could they tell us specifically what was said, or by whom. AND THEN.. they heard a shot, or a pop, maybe it was multiple shots. The person doing the interview was trying to get info, but the interviewee sounded like they really didn't want to say anything.

 

Totally worthless, but I'm sure people looking for proof on each side will take their own meaning from it. Just like we're seeing with the video from the police station.

 

I'm still inclined to believe that Zimmerman was in the wrong, but do realize that lots of evidence isn't being made available to us. I also fear that the local law enforcement and prosecutors did not do a thorough job and may have ignored certain things. Now a whole month (really even hours/days) later it is too late get that critical evidence. We can only hope that the did collect evidence (pictures of the injuries, etc.) at the time of the incident.

 

As SEC=UGA said, without some of the protests and other media coverage in the last couple weeks many in the US would not even be aware of this.

[stevegrab]

How come when white people smoke Josh Gordon they go to Dave Matthews shows and dance around like idiots, but when black people smoke it they just gotta start all kinds of trouble?

 

 

What the F ?

Edited March 30, 2012 by stevegrab

[detlef]

Somebody mentioned yesterday that they find it troubling how witnesses are coming forward and going straight to the media instead of police (or maybe going to the media after talking to police). At the gym last night there was a person being interviewed (I think it was on Anderson Cooper's show). They hid the identity including altering their voice.

 

This person didn't really have anything to add. They heard some arguing, and closed the window. Then the arguing stopped, and started again so they opened the window to listen more. Then they looked outside and saw two men on the ground struggling, but the witness couldn't or didn't tell us who was on top, who was hitting who. (It was dark, and raining and so on.) Nor could they tell us specifically what was said, or by whom. AND THEN.. they heard a shot, or a pop, maybe it was multiple shots. The person doing the interview was trying to get info, but the interviewee sounded like they really didn't want to say anything.

 

Totally worthless, but I'm sure people looking for proof on each side will take their own meaning from it. Just like we're seeing with the video from the police station.

 

I'm still inclined to believe that Zimmerman was in the wrong, but do realize that lots of evidence isn't being made available to us. I also fear that the local law enforcement and prosecutors did not do a thorough job and may have ignored certain things. Now a whole month (really even hours/days) later it is too late get that critical evidence. We can only hope that the did collect evidence (pictures of the injuries, etc.) at the time of the incident.

 

As SEC=UGA said, without some of the protests and other media coverage in the last couple weeks many in the US would not even be aware of this.

 

What seems undeniable is that the state and/or city is setting themselves up for a massive lawsuit, regardless of how this turns out.

[SayItAintSoJoe]

Why is Zimmerman's father giving detailed accounts of what happened? He's saying what was said between the two and how long Martin was allegedly beating on Zimmerman despite, like virtually everyone else, he was not there. Well, I know why Zimmerman's dad is saying this, I guess I want to know why anyone gives two poops about listening to him?

 

Everything he's saying is what the police have already told us Zimmerman told them happened. But, hearing it again sounds like it validates the story when it's simply another person echoing what Zimmerman told him.

 

 

This is a good point. If you want to come out and talk about what a great son you have and how he would never kill someone unless he felt his life was threatened, I can understand that. But when you come out and start giving a second-hand account of what actually happened that night you will only do more harm to your son's case than good. It will be much easier to start poking holes through someone's account of what took place that night if the story they are giving you is coming from someone else. Then as people start poking holes through the father's story it hurts the son's case (at least in the public's eye). Then you will hear folks saying "Why is the father lying about what happened?".

[Square]

How come when white people smoke Josh Gordon they go to Dave Matthews shows and dance around like idiots, but when black people smoke it they just gotta start all kinds of trouble?

Nobody scuffs your Pumas at a DMB concert.

[detlef]

How come when white people smoke Josh Gordon they go to Dave Matthews shows and dance around like idiots, but when black people smoke it they just gotta start all kinds of trouble?

 

You say that like both aren't egregious acts of poor judgment.

[Savage Beatings]

You say that like both aren't egregious acts of poor judgment.

 

 

[matt770]

You say that like both aren't egregious acts of poor judgment.

 

You haven't lived until you've nailed some drunk/stoned coed on the lawn at a Dave show.

 

I've never done that but I bet it's awesome.

[Perchoutofwater]

This person didn't really have anything to add. They heard some arguing, and closed the window. Then the arguing stopped, and started again so they opened the window to listen more. Then they looked outside and saw two men on the ground struggling, but the witness couldn't or didn't tell us who was on top, who was hitting who. (It was dark, and raining and so on.) Nor could they tell us specifically what was said, or by whom

 

 

I'm really not trying to defend the guy, as he very well may be guilty. Having said that, if it was raining that might explain why Zimmerman didn't have blood all over him. That, and the fact that the video was taken something like 4 hours after the altercation.

 

One thing I will say, I'm very impressed thus far by the attorneys for Martin's family. They seem to be trying to prevent any type of community uprising.

[Pope Flick]

I'm really not trying to defend the guy, as he very well may be guilty. Having said that, if it was raining that might explain why Zimmerman didn't have blood all over him. That, and the fact that the video was taken something like 4 hours after the altercation.

 

One thing I will say, I'm very impressed thus far by the attorneys for Martin's family. They seem to be trying to prevent any type of community uprising.

 

 

Tonight CNN was looking at all the facts they have at their disposal, most of which are public. Not sure where you got the 4 hour number, but it was 35 minutes after the shots heard on the 911 call. Cops got to Zimmerman 5 minutes after the shot, and it's a 15 minute drive to the station. So that's Zimmerman put in the car basically 15 minutes after they arrived. That, and Zimmerman called the cops 5 times in 2011 regarding black guys walking down the street. His public story is falling apart. Surprise surprise.

[Furd]

I think that there is something that is missing from the discussion, and that's the significant responsibilities of someone who is carrying a gun. I think that someone carrying a gun has a moral responsibility to avoid confrontation if possible. You cannot put yourself in a scenario in which your presence may cause a confrontation or escalate an existing situation.

 

You have the gun to protect yourself and perhaps others from an imminent threat of death or suffering great bodily injury. Its to be used as a last resort, even in your home. Which is why I think that the so-called "stand your ground" laws are just wrong (Although I don't have a problem with them being applicable in a home invasion situation, particularly when others are present in the home.)

 

Probably the most troubling situation (IMO) that someone carrying a pistol can face is a confrontation by someone who is not armed. It seems to me that in a blink of an eye you can go from a shoving match, to exhanging blows to a point in which you are getting your ass kicked. Can you shoot someone for kicking your ass in a fistfight? What if you were a willing participant? What about if you didn't start it, but you weren't adverse to throwing a few with the guy? As I see it, you must have the duty to retreat in that situation. But the most important duty, perhaps one that cannot be a piece of legislation, is to do what you can to avoid that situation in the first place.

 

A citizen carrying a gun is not a peace officer. It is not his/or her reponsibility to protect property or to keep an eye on suspicious people or to intervene in arguments, purse snatchings or even fistfights. A citizen carrying a gun has a greater responsibility to avoid those situations than does one who isn't carrying.

 

We may never know who caused the close quarters confrontation between Martin and Zimmerman. But if Zimmerman got out of his car in response to Martin walking down the street, for the purposes of being a peace officer, Zimmerman bears responsiblity for Martin's death. Maybe not all of it, but some and perhaps most.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Furd