detlef Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 So, the owner of a local coffee roasting company was in Jujube last night and I honestly forget how we got on topic, but we did none the less find our way to an interesting common ground. There's a movement among coffee fans towards a lighter roast and that movement mirrors the exact thing that I've seen happen in both my evolution as a wine and beer drinker and in the public's evolution as well. Invariably, we all start by drinking crap. Jug wine, Natty Light, Folgers. At some point, some of us decide to step up. And, that first step is almost always toward the bold. Dark beers like stouts, highly extracted red wines, starbucks coffee. We've been drinking flavorless beverages for so long and now we can't get enough. The bigger the better. Then eventually, we tire of that and yearn for balance. For many, the journey ends in that happy place, where quality marries finesse and we enjoy a nice combination of boldness when we want it, delicacy when we want that, and simplicity when we want that. Or some combination of those all at once. Of course, that's not good enough for the geeks. With beers, it has now become all about sours. The mainstream has already chased the contrarian set away from barrel aged stouts and 100+ IBU ales, so they need to find the one thing that nobody else is cool enough to like. It seems they've found their haven in sours. Wine guys are not far off, drinking ultra high acid wines made entirely without of oak. Super weedy reds like Chinon and Lagrein. Ultra high-toned whites from Eastern Europe. There they sit, convincing themselves that these charmless drinks are profound and nuanced. Mostly because, again, they've found their safe place. The commoners a-holes already figured out that wines don't have to be massive to be delicious, but they're not following them here. So, this coffee discussion got to the same place. People are realizing that you don't need to burn coffee to give it flavor. Starbucks, even, now has a "blonde roast", so even they got the memo. So, what are the hipsters doing? Un-pushing the envelope even further. Roasting beans less and less and relishing all the hidden flavors in their hateful and unbearingly acidic cup. Again, any sane person is going to get off at "blonde", so these guys need "hairless". I find it interesting that acid seems to be the unifying element. That's the geek safe house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I like Miller Lite, drink it all the time. No need to fu(k with anything else. Call me a redneck, white trash, whatever... I love Burgundies, white, red, hell if they made a blush, I'd like it. Just good wine. I like Pinot Noir/Chateauneuf Du Pape as well. You can have all the nuanced fancy crap. I don't like coffee. If I drink it, I drown it in sugar and cream. I like coffee flavor, but not coffee. It's kinda odd. I LOVE scotch, doesn't matter the region. So long as she's 18 or older, I'm hittin it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 At Starbucks I prefer to get an Americano, which I think has a very clean taste. I wonder how much you could satisfy that taste movement with a different brewing process, such as table side vacuum brewing (which IMO makes the best, cleanest tasting cup) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 I like Miller Lite, drink it all the time. No need to fu(k with anything else. Call me a redneck, white trash, whatever... I love Burgundies, white, red, hell if they made a blush, I'd like it. Just good wine. I like Pinot Noir/Chateauneuf Du Pape as well. You can have all the nuanced fancy crap. I don't like coffee. If I drink it, I drown it in sugar and cream. I like coffee flavor, but not coffee. It's kinda odd. I LOVE scotch, doesn't matter the region. So long as she's 18 or older, I'm hittin it. They do make rose in Burgundy, from the Pinot Noir. And, if you truly do love Burgundy, then you're selling yourself short with the "aw-shucks, you can keep the nuanced fancy crap" because nuance is Burgundy's calling card. When it's good, there's ripeness and perhaps a bit of power to go along with it. When it's OK, it's got just barely enough ripeness but it's still about the nuance. When it's not good, its got nothing but nuance. By and large. But nuance is why you pay 2x or more for a bottle of Pinot or Chardonnay from Burgundy than you do from essentially anywhere else (assuming equal pedigree, of course). In fact, nuance (should be) basically why you drink Pinot. It's why Pinot shares the stage among the most noble grapes despite typically making a wine with less power, fruit, and tannin than the others at the top of the pecking order. So, if you like Pinot, and specifically pinot from Burgundy, you're a bit fancier than perhaps you'd like to admit. And don't get me started on the fact that the other wine you mentioned in your, "just give some plain old good wine" bit is also not exactly an everyday quaff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameltosis Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) I love it when people try to tell me what I should like. I respect your opinion and agree with some of what you are saying, but you cannot tell people they are wrong because they like something that is different from your ultra-refined tastes. Edited March 28, 2012 by Cameltosis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) They do make rose in Burgundy, from the Pinot Noir. And, if you truly do love Burgundy, then you're selling yourself short with the "aw-shucks, you can keep the nuanced fancy crap" because nuance is Burgundy's calling card. When it's good, there's ripeness and perhaps a bit of power to go along with it. When it's OK, it's got just barely enough ripeness but it's still about the nuance. When it's not good, its got nothing but nuance. By and large. But nuance is why you pay 2x or more for a bottle of Pinot or Chardonnay from Burgundy than you do from essentially anywhere else (assuming equal pedigree, of course). In fact, nuance (should be) basically why you drink Pinot. It's why Pinot shares the stage among the most noble grapes despite typically making a wine with less power, fruit, and tannin than the others at the top of the pecking order. So, if you like Pinot, and specifically pinot from Burgundy, you're a bit fancier than perhaps you'd like to admit. And don't get me started on the fact that the other wine you mentioned in your, "just give some plain old good wine" bit is also not exactly an everyday quaff. Well, I 've been drinking Burgundy wines since I was probably around 8 or so (and I'm being dead serious) so to me it really isn't all that trendy and nuanced... I guess I'm wrong. Does this make me a wine snob, too? Guess I'll have to go home and pop the cork on the '98 Chateauneuf Vieux Telegraph and drown my sorrows. Edited March 28, 2012 by SEC=UGA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) Wow, a bit touchy aren't we? Cameltosis, I didn't say he was wrong. I was just saying that it's a bit silly to come off "Hey, I'm not into any fancy pants stuff, just give me a plain ol' Burgundy any day." Sorry, but that's an undeniably funny statement. I think it's great that SEC loves Burgundy, I do to. But, when I'm just reaching for a good ol' honest bottle of wine because I'm no fancy pants, I'm not drinking Burgundy, that's for sure. And, SEC, Burgundy is not trendy. Never said it was. I also wasn't questioning your "wine cred". Rather your alleged "I'm just an everyman who's not looking for anything fancy", considering the wines you referenced to illustrate that. Now, maybe the point you were trying to make is, "I'm so effing rich, I gargle with wines that cost $30-$300 and don't think twice about 'em." And if that's the case, good for you. Edited March 28, 2012 by detlef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) Wow, a bit touchy aren't we? Cameltosis, I didn't say he was wrong. No, you just called him and his group with similar taste a bunch of commoner CHEETOs. I like what I like: rioja, or a good cab; viognier and the bar up the street just put their Bogginton's Tap back in, so I'm going to be living there for some time. Edited March 28, 2012 by Pope Flick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Nope, not a wine connoisseur and not rich. Just like what I like. I will spend on what I like and forego things in the interim until I can afford what I like. I apologize for misinterpreting your initial post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 No, you just called him and his group with similar taste a bunch of commoner CHEETOs. I like what I like: rioja, or a good cab; viognier and the bar up the street just put their Bogginton's Tap back in, so I'm going to be living there for some time. Do you actually think, in my initial post, that, when I referred to the "commoner a-holes" I was being serious? Surely you're smarter than that. Do I actually have to explain that bit to you? Here's the short version, at least in terms of wine, my tastes are pretty much in line with his. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Do you actually think, in my initial post, that, when I referred to the "commoner a-holes" I was being serious? Surely you're smarter than that. Do I actually have to explain that bit to you? Here's the short version, at least in terms of wine, my tastes are pretty much in line with his. Yes. It didn't surprise me, as you've copped that condescending tone here before. So there you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 A summary: Me: geeks are funny because, now that normal people have discovered cool drinks, they'd rather consume charmless acid water just so they can maintain their geek-cred and not be like everyone else. SEC: Aw heck, I don't need no fancy pants noo-aunced wine, just put a $50+ bottle of French wine (preferrably from an iconic producer in a banner vintage) in front of me an' I'm straight. Me: That's silly you are a fancy-pants Cameltosis: You think you're better 'en me? SEC: I've been drinking Burgundy since I was a kid, so that means it has no nuance. Pope Flick: I have no reading comprehension. Me: I thought you were smart? Pope Flick: I guess not. The end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 A summary: Me: geeks are funny because, now that normal people have discovered cool drinks, they'd rather consume charmless acid water just so they can maintain their geek-cred and not be like everyone else. SEC: Aw heck, I don't need no fancy pants noo-aunced wine, just put a $50+ bottle of French wine (preferrably from an iconic producer in a banner vintage) in front of me an' I'm straight. Me: That's silly you are a fancy-pants Cameltosis: You think you're better 'en me? SEC: I've been drinking Burgundy since I was a kid, so that means it has no nuance. Pope Flick: I have no reading comprehension. Me: I thought you were smart? Pope Flick: I guess not. The end. I'm switching to Bourdeauxs because of this thread.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 A summary: Me: geeks are funny because, now that normal people have discovered cool drinks, they'd rather consume charmless acid water just so they can maintain their geek-cred and not be like everyone else. SEC: Aw heck, I don't need no fancy pants noo-aunced wine, just put a $50+ bottle of French wine (preferrably from an iconic producer in a banner vintage) in front of me an' I'm straight. Me: That's silly you are a fancy-pants Cameltosis: You think you're better 'en me? SEC: I've been drinking Burgundy since I was a kid, so that means it has no nuance. Pope Flick: I have no reading comprehension. Me: I thought you were smart? Pope Flick: I guess not. The end. This is the most succinct Det has ever been. (And I actually think he summarized the whole thread pretty well.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 This is the most succinct Det has ever been. (And I actually think he summarized the whole thread pretty well.) Except where he changed what he said, and doesn't acknowledge sarcasm doesn't come through well in the innerwebs. And sorry dude, you've been smarmy enough before so that it isn't out of the realm of possibilities that you come across as dismissive to groups of people. You don't agree so be it. I really don't care what you think about me. So there you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 Except where he changed what he said, and doesn't acknowledge sarcasm doesn't come through well in the innerwebs. And sorry dude, you've been smarmy enough before so that it isn't out of the realm of possibilities that you come across as dismissive to groups of people. You don't agree so be it. I really don't care what you think about me. So there you go. I'm glad to hear that, truly. And honestly, I've always thought you were an intelligent person. Still do, actually, which is why it amazes me that you interpreted the tone as you did. If I had to guess, I'd say it went something like this: Detlef is at it again with another esoteric missive on wines. I'm going to assume that he's being elitist and talking down to me so I'll just skim through and confirm that. Ooh, he just said "commoner a-hole". Well, there you go, just as I guessed. Listen dude, if you're tired of my act, that's cool. Just ignore it. But if you want to attack what I said or play "gotcha", then you might want to actually read the post first. Again, I have faith that, regardless of how smarmy you might think I am, you'd find the sarcasm obvious enough. Because, again, I'm inclined to believe you're actually smart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I'm glad to hear that, truly. And honestly, I've always thought you were an intelligent person. Still do, actually, which is why it amazes me that you interpreted the tone as you did. If I had to guess, I'd say it went something like this: Detlef is at it again with another esoteric missive on wines. I'm going to assume that he's being elitist and talking down to me so I'll just skim through and confirm that. Ooh, he just said "commoner a-hole". Well, there you go, just as I guessed. Listen dude, if you're tired of my act, that's cool. Just ignore it. But if you want to attack what I said or play "gotcha", then you might want to actually read the post first. Again, I have faith that, regardless of how smarmy you might think I am, you'd find the sarcasm obvious enough. Because, again, I'm inclined to believe you're actually smart. Well, since we're patting each other here on the back I enjoyed the rest of your post and found it to be very interesting to read. It seems somewhere someone thought I was trying to defend the Irish hating mysoginist which isn't true since he's capable of defending himself. I mistook your attempt at sarcasm (apparently) because putting 'commoner a-holes' into a well thought out post kind of implies that, well, you thought the whole thing out and suddenly shouldn't veer into comedy. That's just me, and all I can say is that's what emoticons are for, and I say that really hting them but use them cuz chit like this happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chester Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Hey, I've been collecting sour beers for 15 years. I guess I'm a geek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Hey, I've been collecting sour beers for 15 years. I guess I'm a geek. I don't think I've ever had a "sour" beer. Of course I'm wearing a Coed Naked Lacrosse T-shirt right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chester Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I don't think I've ever had a "sour" beer. Of course I'm wearing a Coed Naked Lacrosse T-shirt right now. Generally Belgian,though I'm sure there are some micros doing a good job at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 We should just re-title this thread: SEC=UGA is a snooty, fancy pants, irish hating, misogynist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 Hey, I've been collecting sour beers for 15 years. I guess I'm a geek. If the shoe fits... Seriously, if the shoe fits. Every single person whom I know that likes and especially collects sour beers openly admits that they're a geek. And, don't get me wrong, I think they're sort of cool, in moderation. But Durham is a pretty beer geeky town and the most popular bottle shop had a "Sour Fest". Now, for starters, it should have been called "Wild Fest" because every beer there was a Wild Ale but only some of which were actually Sour (that's sort of a pet pieve of mine, people referring to all wild ales as sour, confusing dryness for sourness, but I digress. At any rate, it was certainly a who's who of the geeks. And the hardcores sure separated themselves from the pack by the end, most of us craving anything at all besides a sour, but the true believers tipping the bottle of gueze upside down for just one more drop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chester Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 the true believers tipping the bottle of gueze upside down for just one more drop. They're the wannabes. That last drop tastes like crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 They're the wannabes. That last drop tastes like crap. Good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 A summary: Me: geeks are funny because, now that normal people have discovered cool drinks, they'd rather consume charmless acid water just so they can maintain their geek-cred and not be like everyone else. SEC: Aw heck, I don't need no fancy pants noo-aunced wine, just put a $50+ bottle of French wine (preferrably from an iconic producer in a banner vintage) in front of me an' I'm straight. Me: That's silly you are a fancy-pants Cameltosis: You think you're better 'en me? SEC: I've been drinking Burgundy since I was a kid, so that means it has no nuance. Pope Flick: I have no reading comprehension. Me: I thought you were smart? Pope Flick: I guess not. The end. This is truly your best post EVAH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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