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wiegie

Obamacare is upheld

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I'm curious about this: why, if companies aren't penalized for not providing health insurance - in other words if they pull their plans today there is no fine - will they suddenly up and drop insurance once a penalty for doing so is put into place? Answer: they won't since they're still competing for the best workers.

 

What a failed straw man argument.

 

 

I tend to agree. I think an argument could be made that some figure Obamacare is going to force insurers to jack up their rates so high that employers will be forced to drop coverage and pay the penalty. I don't have any data to back up that argument as a legitimately one but that be where that argument is coming from.

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I know you just love this kind of crap,

 

 

 

I admit to finding humor in your puffing out the chest and strutting around while ultimately proving you are no more enlightened, objective, or knowledgeable than those you initially take issue with.

 

Yo Mama obviously isn't a tooth and nail defender of the ACA and the only people who are pretending they are eggspurts on the issue are you and Ice, which ultimately backfires when your arguments are filled with a lot of conjecture and sprinkled with blatant misinformation. You do provide some entertainment value Bronco Billy, I'll give you that much.

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I'm curious about this: why, if companies aren't penalized for not providing health insurance - in other words if they pull their plans today there is no fine - will they suddenly up and drop insurance once a penalty for doing so is put into place? Answer: they won't since they're still competing for the best workers.

 

What a failed straw man argument.

 

 

Exactly. What is actually happening is a move to high deductible insurance supported by an HSA. This would have happened with or without the ACA. It's a move I actually like a lot because it will, IMO, drive down costs / spending. These plans are usually combined with free preventive health care with some limitations, a measure that will take years or decades to show it's positive effect on overall costs.

 

All that said, I still greatly favor the elimination of the employer - health care link.

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All that said, I still greatly favor the elimination of the employer - health care link.

That would be awesome.

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Have you found the support for your assertion that 16% of the people are projected to pay the penalty/tax? I know how important credibilty is to you.

 

 

:crickets:

 

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I'm curious about this: why, if companies aren't penalized for not providing health insurance - in other words if they pull their plans today there is no fine - will they suddenly up and drop insurance once a penalty for doing so is put into place? Answer: they won't since they're still competing for the best workers.

 

What a failed straw man argument.

 

 

If unemployment wasn't so high it would be a straw man argument. With unemployment as high as it is I think it is a legit argument rather than a straw man.

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Exactly. What is actually happening is a move to high deductible insurance supported by an HSA. This would have happened with or without the ACA. It's a move I actually like a lot because it will, IMO, drive down costs / spending. These plans are usually combined with free preventive health care with some limitations, a measure that will take years or decades to show it's positive effect on overall costs.

 

All that said, I still greatly favor the elimination of the employer - health care link.

 

 

And that would require only two things - making it so insurance companies could sell across state lines and giving individuals the same tax deduction for medical insurance as businesses. Those, however, are free market solutions - anathema to the current occupant of the white house. :shrug:

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And that would require only two things - making it so insurance companies could sell across state lines and giving individuals the same tax deduction for medical insurance as businesses. Those, however, are free market solutions - anathema to the current occupant of the white house. :shrug:

 

 

Your first point is not a good idea, unless regulated uniformly by the feds in some way...

 

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/02/selling_insurance_across_state.html

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Your first point is not a good idea, unless regulated uniformly by the feds in some way...

 

http://voices.washin...ross_state.html

 

 

Oh I'd agree that stuff needs to be uniform, but the other insurance industries do it already don't they? (Don't have time to read the link, so tell me if I'm missing something basic.)

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Cracks appear in GOP unity on health care law.

 

 

Congress will take up the repeal measure of the health-care law amid growing misgivings that relitigating the issue now will make Republicans seem out of touch — especially when party leaders are still without an alternative.

 

 

A House vote to fully repeal President Obama's health-care law was supposed to be the coup de grace for "Obamacare," a final sweeping away of a law that Republicans thought the Supreme Court would gut and leave for dead.

 

Instead, the House on Wednesday will take up the repeal measure after the Affordable Care Act's constitutionality was upheld, and amid growing misgivings that relitigating the issue now will make Republicans seem out of touch — especially when party leaders are still without an alternative.

 

"Anytime Republicans are debating taxes and the economy, we're winning," said a veteran Republican campaign consultant who spoke on condition of anonymity to avoid publicly crossing his party's leadership. "Anytime we're debating health care, they're winning.

 

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Stevegrab is on vacation.

 

Thanks for noticing/remembering, and I'm back now. What's this facetious stuff y'all are referring too. Can I get it deep fried?

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in

Meh. I like the fact that someone had the balls to tackle one of the most pressing issues facing the nation today (i.e., health care). I'm uneasy that the economics of the solution won't be understood for years to come. Perhaps the nation as a whole will be better off, or perhaps we're just trading one problem for another. No one really knows and anyone who says otherwise is merely speculating.

 

 

Federal spending will certainly go way way up now that they can't force states to comply.

 

 

 

A report from the Congressional Budget Office finds that the Supreme Court ruling on President Obama's health care law will save the government $84 billion over the next 11 years.

 

 

 

Good work Ice....

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.npr.org/b...n-over-11-years

 

 

 

The CBO says that a repeal of Obamacare would actually increase the deficit by $109 billion.

 

Here's how the CBO explains it in a letter to Boehner (pdf):

 

 

"In total, CBO and JCT estimate that H.R. 6079 would reduce direct spending by $890 billion and reduce revenues by $1 trillion over the 2013–2022 period, thus adding $109 billion to federal budget deficits over that period."

 

 

Senate Republican Leader McConnell issued this statement about the latest CBO report:

 

"What we know from today's CBO report, as well as from similar reports from CBO and the Medicare actuary, is that the new health care law is dramatically increasing health care spending and costs – costs to our economy, costs to taxpayers, and costs to states. In addition, today's report also shows that taxes will increase by more than $1 trillion under Obamacare. The House has already acted to repeal this deeply flawed law and the Senate should do the same."

 

 

Is this real?
Edited by bushwacked

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I get how it reduces the costs now. See my friend just got a memo from their company stating that due to obamacare their health plan will soon be on their W2. Meaning that they will treat their healthcare as income, and tax it as such.

 

obamacare! Rasing taxes and the cost of healthcare for EVERYONE! How wonderful.

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I get how it reduces the costs now. See my friend just got a memo from their company stating that due to obamacare their health plan will soon be on their W2. Meaning that they will treat their healthcare as income, and tax it as such.

 

obamacare! Rasing taxes and the cost of healthcare for EVERYONE! How wonderful.

 

 

Are you sure it's getting reported on there as income, or is it getting reported on there to show that the employee has insurance of some kind when they go to fill out their taxes? I'm thinking that the person doing your taxes will have to verify that the filer does or does not have coverage. I'm not completely sure though.

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I get how it reduces the costs now. See my friend just got a memo from their company stating that due to obamacare their health plan will soon be on their W2. Meaning that they will treat their healthcare as income, and tax it as such.

 

obamacare! Rasing taxes and the cost of healthcare for EVERYONE! How wonderful.

 

As long as my wife has been working for companies that offered health insurance, its been reported on her W2. In fact, I can't remember any company I or she ever worked for that did not try to include any and all things we got that could be thought of as compensation (and paying any amount at all for health insurance is certainly that) on our W2s.

 

ETA: Upon further thought, the above may not be the case. I'm now remembering that what has been appearing on her pay-stubs has been deductions for whatever she's had to pay (typically to add me to the coverage). Obviously not the same thing. Of course, any amount she's paid towards coverage has not been taxed. Both that and the 401K are subtracted from her gross pay before any taxes are applied to it.

Edited by detlef

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I get how it reduces the costs now. See my friend just got a memo from their company stating that due to obamacare their health plan will soon be on their W2. Meaning that they will treat their healthcare as income, and tax it as such.

 

obamacare! Rasing taxes and the cost of healthcare for EVERYONE! How wonderful.

 

 

From the IRS website....

Reporting Employer Provided Health Coverage in Form W-2

 

 

The Affordable Care Act requires employers to report the cost of coverage under an employer-sponsored group health plan on an employee’s Form W-2, Wage and Tax Statement, in Box 12, using Code DD. Many employers are eligible for transition relief for tax-year 2012 and beyond, until the IRS issues final guidance for this reporting requirement.

 

The amount reported does not affect tax liability, as the value of the employer excludible contribution to health coverage continues to be excludible from an employee's income, and it is not taxable. This reporting is for informational purposes only, to show employees the value of their health care benefits so they can be more informed consumers.

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It's reported for informational purposes but has long been discussed as potential new government revenue by removing the deduction for premiums paid. I have no doubt with our structural deficit issues this will eventually happen along with removal of many other deductions and credits in exchangw for a slight lowering of tax rates. I think this will happen slowly over the next 10 years regardless of who occupies the White House.

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