you didnt build that

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

I know this has probably been beaten to death already, but I just now finally read the full text of these controversial comments. Reading in its entirety, what exactly is so wrong with his statement?

 

Full text...

 

We've already made a trillion dollars' worth of cuts. We can make some more cuts in programs that don't work, and make government work more efficiently…We can make another trillion or trillion-two, and what we then do is ask for the wealthy to pay a little bit more …

 

There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me, because they want to give something back. They know they didn't -look, if you've been successful, you didn't get there on your own. You didn't get there on your own. I'm always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something - there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

 

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business. you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn't get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

 

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don't do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

 

So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That's how we funded the GI Bill. That's how we created the middle class. That's how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That's how we invented the Internet. That's how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that's the reason I'm running for president -because I still believe in that idea. You're not on your own, we're in this together."

Edited July 26, 2012 by CaP'N GRuNGe

[gbpfan1231]

I know this has probably been beaten to death already, but I just now finally read the full text of these controversial comments. Reading in its entirety, what exactly is so wrong with his statement?

 

Full text...

 

We've already made a trillion dollars' worth of cuts. We can make some more cuts in programs that don't work, and make government work more efficiently…We can make another trillion or trillion-two, and what we then do is ask for the wealthy to pay a little bit more …

 

There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me, because they want to give something back. They know they didn't -look, if you've been successful, you didn't get there on your own. You didn't get there on your own. I'm always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something - there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

 

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business. you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn't get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

 

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don't do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

 

So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That's how we funded the GI Bill. That's how we created the middle class. That's how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That's how we invented the Internet. That's how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that's the reason I'm running for president -because I still believe in that idea. You're not on your own, we're in this together."

 

To me it is the section bolded - in my mind there are a ton of people who did build a business basically on their own. Now I am sure you will use my word "basically" to try and prove his point but you could take the same exact type of business and give it to 10 different people and you will have 10 different levels of success - that is because of that INDIVIDUAL. Building and growing a business is a bit different than building a bridge or Hoover Dam or fighting a fire.

 

His intent of the comments was to paint the picture of trying to make people be more equals and say that teh poeple that are successful need to help out the others.

 

The other point is thsi guy is s upposed to be a leader. Does a football team ever win the game based solely on what they do? No. Could you see Vince Lombardi after a game saying "Good job guys but you did not win that game - you had a lot help from that other temas - that punter that shanked really helped us - that fumble helped us and actually we are not that successful - we need to give everyone else credit. His little speech did nothing to motivate anyone in the middle/lower class to go out and start a business - if anything it motivates people to sit back and get rewarded by the successful that "they" helped make.

 

Just my opinion.

[SEC=UGA]

Really?

 

"If you've got a business. You didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen..."

 

He was doing ok until that point. He brought up some valid points about teachers helping, infrastructure to help commerce being available, about how the founders of this country set up a system that allowed entrepreneurship to thrive...

 

But then... 'If you've got a business. You didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen..."

 

Look again at what he attributes the success of this country to: Government and Government workers. The private sector built nothing. All the success in the private sector stemmed from government and agents of the government.

[delusions of grandeur]

Make no mistake that the quote is going to be taken wildly out of context in an election year, but it's not too tough to see why people would be insulted by the message.

 

We do live in a deterministic world, where literally anything and everything can be described as the result of genetics, environment, experience, etc., etc., yes...

 

However, it is to downplay the role that free will and effort plays into individual accomplishments. Just because Einstein's work was built on many previous scientific discoveries, does that make his individual breakthroughs that advanced our understanding any less of a breakthrough? Would you even attempt to say that he didn't come up with those ideas on his own, when no one else did prior to him, and may not have without him?

 

It's kinda like saying to an inventor, innovator, or business owner, "well, I could have done that if I had...". Well, did you? No, I did. I invested my time, money, effort, education into building this (and no, most do not just start with people willing to invest in them. They have to first show it to be a worthwhile investment in most cases).

 

So yes, let's recognize that progress is built on the efforts of others, but let's not pretend like collective past efforts should minimize present individual accomplishments.

 

I mean, what a horrible message, where the intent seems to be to diminish those who've had success, to act as if opportunity and past progress are the sole factors in their success or lack thereof.

 

(Not to mention what SEC said, that it seems to be implying that we need government to have success, even though most private industries, particularly small businesses have thrived in spite of government, not because of them.)

Edited July 26, 2012 by delusions of grandeur

[billay]

Look at the comments that Elizabeth Warren made recently, and I think it sheds some light on what the President was trying to say. The President wasn't nearly as clear in making the point, but I think its pretty silly to argue that he was saying that people who started a business really didn't start a business.

“I hear all this, you know, ‘Well, this is class warfare, this is whatever. No. There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own — nobody.

 

“You built a factory out there? Good for you. But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on the roads

the rest of us

paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police-forces and fire-forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory — and hire someone to protect against this — because of the work the rest of us did.

 

“Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea. God bless — keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is, you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.”

[delusions of grandeur]

LOL, he's

... Man, I wish we could all just live inside an Obama speech. Hope, change, sunshine and unicorn farts that smell like roses.

[Pope Flick]

He was referring to the roads and bridges from the previous sentence (the one everybody is conveniently leaving out).

 

Additionally, reading what he said isn't the same as listening to when he said it since it was given as a speech and not written as an op-ed. And I'd bet donuts for dollars he went off script at that point, thus the botch. Pretty simple stuff.

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

You didn't build the infrastructure. That's what he was trying to say.

[moneymakers]

Jon Lovitz to Obama about his Nobel Prize: 'You didn't earn that'

 

 

"I didn't build my business, either," Lovitz tweeted yesterday, along with a photo of the president holding his Nobel Peace Prize with text over the photo reading, "Nobel Peace Prize? You didn't earn that. Somebody else made that happen."

[SayItAintSoJoe]

He was referring to the roads and bridges from the previous sentence (the one everybody is conveniently leaving out).

 

Additionally, reading what he said isn't the same as listening to when he said it since it was given as a speech and not written as an op-ed. And I'd bet donuts for dollars he went off script at that point, thus the botch. Pretty simple stuff.

 

 

This is what I thought as well. I think he was trying to drive home the same point that Elizabeth Warren made about a year ago.

 

There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own. Nobody. You built a factory out there — good for you!

But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that maurauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory, and hire someone to protect against this, because of the work the rest of us did. Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea — God bless. Keep a big hunk of it.

But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.

 

[billay]

This is what I thought as well. I think he was trying to drive home the same point that Elizabeth Warren made about a year ago.

 

Is there an echo in here?

[Big John]

You didn't build the infrastructure. That's what he was trying to say.

 

And still not enough infrastructure being built/maintained

[SEC=UGA]

He was referring to the roads and bridges from the previous sentence (the one everybody is conveniently leaving out).

 

Additionally, reading what he said isn't the same as listening to when he said it since it was given as a speech and not written as an op-ed. And I'd bet donuts for dollars he went off script at that point, thus the botch. Pretty simple stuff.

 

 

Evidently I'm not convenient.

[SayItAintSoJoe]

Is there an echo in here?

 

 

Great minds think alike.

[polksalet]

If you follow this argument to its logical conclusion liberals are responsible for the Aurora massacre because psycho boy was on a government grant.

 

I'm not saying I believe this but it is just as rationale at Osama's argument.

[Perchoutofwater]

You guys trying to defend this are funny.

[Pope Flick]

Pray tell, what am I defending?

[billay]

Pray tell, what am I defending?

 

You took the bait.

[Pope Flick]

Perhaps, but I'll die for their right to ignore context for political gain.

[detlef]

He was referring to the roads and bridges from the previous sentence (the one everybody is conveniently leaving out).

 

Additionally, reading what he said isn't the same as listening to when he said it since it was given as a speech and not written as an op-ed. And I'd bet donuts for dollars he went off script at that point, thus the botch. Pretty simple stuff.

 

This. Dude effed up. Plain and simple. Every time I hear the speech, I cringe at that moment and I'm sure he does as well. It still amazes me that people are so convinced that it's some Freudian glimpse into his deepest darkest hopes.

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

"If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business. you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen."

 

"That" refers to the roads and bridges. It was a clumsy sentence but anyone who claims it refers to the business, especially given the context of the rest of his comments, Is being intellectualy dishonest.

[Duchess Jack]

Jon Lovitz to Obama about his Nobel Prize: 'You didn't earn that'

 

 

"I didn't build my business, either," Lovitz tweeted yesterday, along with a photo of the president holding his Nobel Peace Prize with text over the photo reading, "Nobel Peace Prize? You didn't earn that. Somebody else made that happen."

 

 

Are you really quoting Jon Lovitz to make a point?!?

[Square]

"Personal property is the effect of society; and it is as impossible for an individual to acquire personal property without the aid of society, as it is for him to make land originally.

Separate an individual from society, and give him an island or a continent to possess, and he cannot acquire personal property. He cannot be rich. So inseparably are the means connected with the end, in all cases, that where the former do not exist the latter cannot be obtained. All accumulation, therefore, of personal property, beyond what a man's own hands produce, is derived to him by living in society; and he owes on every principle of justice, of gratitude, and of civilization, a part of that accumulation back again to society from whence the whole came."

[stevegrab]

The sentence that has many upset is this

 

"If you've got a business. You didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen..."

 

what if he had said

 

"If you've got a business. You didn't build that on your own. Somebody else helped make that happen..."

 

Would that be any better.

 

All those demonizing him saying that he's trying to belittle business owners and make them feel bad, or that they should pay more to help the common man are just using political talking points. Sadly the divisive political nature of our society precludes having a rational discussion with many. Especially those who think they're being quite or witty with "Osama" and other BS.

[detlef]

Are you really quoting Jon Lovitz to make a point?!?

 

Listen, at least his post didn't look like a bad ee cummings poem. Baby steps, dude. Baby steps.