gbpfan1231 Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 I guess Perch beat me to it but we basically said the same and like many others on this site he said better than I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) So, in summary; when Romney says stupid stuff over and over again it's no big deal and you guys can justify it. But when Obama does it once it's serious business. Because if you guys were honest you'd have no trouble agreeing that govt. infrastructure was in fact built by the govt and all of us benefit by it...GMOZZ! You guys trying to defend this are funny. +1 My assertion of certain posters here being prone to non-issue ZMOGG'n has been played out a kajillion times over the last few years. The last several posts just kind of synthesizes the hypocritical and asinine nature of the issue, a microcosm, if you will. it's nice to know we can agree on something. Edited July 28, 2012 by bushwacked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditkaless Wonders Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) So, in summary; when Romney says stupid stuff over and over again it's no big deal and you guys can justify it. But when Obama does it once it's serious business. Because if you guys were honest you'd have no trouble agreeing that govt. infrastructure was in fact built by the govt and all of us benefit by it...GMOZZ! +1 My assertion of certain posters here being prone to non-issue ZMOGG'n has been played out a kajillion times over the last few years. The last several posts just kind of synthesizes the hypocritical and asinine nature of the issue, a microcosm, if you will. it's nice to know we can agree on something. I for one have no difficulty in acknowledging the government's part in building infrastructure. I have no problem stating that the infrastructure benefits all. That was part of Obama's statemen, but that was hardly his point. Can you admit that? Also, I would note that that the government is the people, or should be. The government was not some separate entity with funds of its own that granted us with the great boon of an infrastructure. It was we the people, acting as government, who paid for and built that infrastructure. We owe the government nothing. We owe ourselves. Now in self interest, understanding that peace and cooperation from our fellow citizens is more productive than having them oppressed in poverty, we may well want to redisgtribute some wealth, but it is we who should be able to put incentives, conditions, and strings upon that gift. It is obscene that government sees itself now as having the right to put strings and conditions on allowing us to keep the fruits of our own labors as if that is a gift from government to us or that the government thinks it has the right to put strings upon the return of our money to us. Edited August 1, 2012 by Ditkaless Wonders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 But when Obama does it once it's serious business. Maybe more than just once. http://newsbusters.org/forum/topic-discussion/handy-reference-guide-obama039s-gaffes-and-goofs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 I for one have no difficulty in acknowledging the government's part in building infrastructure. I have no problem stating that the infrastructure benefits all. That was part of Obama's statement but that was hardly his point. Can you admit that? I think YO summarized the point this way: I don't think anyone is trying to "defend this." I think some folks are merely pointing out that, viewed within the context of what was said immediatly before and after the quote at issue, that quote isn't nearly as absurd as some have made it out to be. People who build businesses benefit from the surrounding infrastructure - infrastructure that they (more often than not) did not build themselves. This statement is true, and you know it. And I agree with his view and don't really understand the hubbualoo about it (even though I expected it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 So, in summary; when Romney says stupid stuff over and over again it's no big deal and you guys can justify it. But when Obama does it once it's serious business. Because if you guys were honest you'd have no trouble agreeing that govt. infrastructure was in fact built by the govt and all of us benefit by it...GMOZZ! +1 My assertion of certain posters here being prone to non-issue ZMOGG'n has been played out a kajillion times over the last few years. The last several posts just kind of synthesizes the hypocritical and asinine nature of the issue, a microcosm, if you will. it's nice to know we can agree on something. A lefty calling others hypocrites - oh my god that is a classic one right there folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Typical Op/Ed from Fox News (surprise....) But there were things that helped my grandfather’s business that he didn’t have to pay for. The roads trucks drove on to bring him products to sell. The court system that incorporated his business and protected the patents of what he sold. The police force that made it safe for people to shop there. The public schools that taught his employees how to read and do math, so my grandfather didn’t have to teach them. Make no mistake about it — my grandfather succeeded because of his hard work and initiative. But government played a supporting role. By grandfather was not rich, certainly not by today’s standards. But when Ronald Reagan was president, my grandfather paid almost 50% of his income in taxes to help make sure that good public schools and safe streets and the things we all need to succeed in America would be available for the next generation. Today, hedge fund managers and big business CEOs pay lower tax rates than middle class families. In fact, the tax rate for the very wealthy is the lowest it’s been in over 60 years.[/url] It’s not either/or. The president was clear: We succeed because of our individual initiative but also because of the public investments that help springboard that success. Don’t believe me? Then go start a business in Pakistan or Russia. American entrepreneurs succeed in part because they’re in America. And in America, we don’t get ours and then yank away the ladder of opportunity for the next generation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayItAintSoJoe Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Maybe because it was much more obvious what Romney meant when you take his words into context. It's obvious what Romney was trying to say but what is not so obvious is why would it come out of his mouth that way? I like being able to change service providers that aren't doing a good job but I don't think I would ever say "I like firing people". I think these are the kinds of words that only a person that has been in a position of authority throughout most of his life would choose. I think it provides some insight into his character. If we are going to take Obama's gaffe and say that it wasn't just a gaffe but really an indication of how he sees the world, shouldn't we apply the same scrutiny to a Romney gaffe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice1 Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) The point is that people before you paid for/built the roads you used when your business started. The point is that we all have a greater opportunity for success because of the foundation laid by our predecessors. Do you disagree? That is actually rather insulting considering everyone is competing with the same set of basic circumstance. The roads and bridges justification is straight up stupid in that regard. The French control much of the toll road system in Houston as an example which makes travel much better and they have to build their own bridges. Honda kicks ass as a car company because they make a good product. This site's success or failure has nothig do with the government but the content vs. other sites. Obama is selling a concept that we somehow owe the government more money so the government can spend it or at least reduce the borrow rate. The guy has been selling fair share or those smart enough to make it financially should pay way more because many are simply not as smart, lucky, or down right lazy. Trying to justify his comments based on the criteria we all use as if we couldn't have built a business without government is foolish. Obama most likely believes we owe everything to the government but saying it was a stupid mistake. It was a King has no clothes moment and something he should probably ignore, not attempt to justify or even clarify. He said it, he owns it. Edited July 29, 2012 by Ice1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditkaless Wonders Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Great, now I pictured Obama naked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) The point is that we all have a greater opportunity for success because of the foundation laid by our predecessors. That is actually rather insulting considering everyone is competing with the same set of basic circumstance. You are insulted by the thought our historical framework, foundation, and infrastructure as a country has benefited most of us as Americans? Christ almighty; you are absolutely driven to blind rationalization where anti-American fervor becomes an adequate end to justify means. There is nothing wrong with everyone NOT competing with the same set of circumstances...but you state we all are. You are certifiably delusional and you spend a decent amount of time typing blantant nonsense. Edited July 29, 2012 by bushwacked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Did Obama break the law when he stated that public infrastructure benefits private business? I don't have a problem with the offshore accounts if they are legal Agree. What is shady? If it is legal then fine The company I work for has a code of ethics. One of them includes putting all money back into our company, our people, city, states, country, and not investing in foreign tax havens. I'm having trouble figuring out what peeks your guy's outrage meter other than attributing it to an obvious double standard. I'm sure that it's just me though. Did you guys hear that Obama is a Socialist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 ...in America, we don’t get ours and then yank away the ladder of opportunity for the next generation. Over the past coupla generations, we kinda do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Over the past coupla generations, we kinda do. The only thing the baby boomer generation was successful at was teaching everyone how to vote themselves money they'll never have to pay back themselves. I can't believe they hug their grandchildren with those same grubby fingers they used to bankrupt their generation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 It's obvious what Romney was trying to say but what is not so obvious is why would it come out of his mouth that way? I like being able to change service providers that aren't doing a good job but I don't think I would ever say "I like firing people". I think these are the kinds of words that only a person that has been in a position of authority throughout most of his life would choose. I think it provides some insight into his character. If we are going to take Obama's gaffe and say that it wasn't just a gaffe but really an indication of how he sees the world, shouldn't we apply the same scrutiny to a Romney gaffe? I would agree with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Did Obama break the law when he stated that public infrastructure benefits private business? The company I work for has a code of ethics. One of them includes putting all money back into our company, our people, city, states, country, and not investing in foreign tax havens. I'm having trouble figuring out what peeks your guy's outrage meter other than attributing it to an obvious double standard. I'm sure that it's just me though. Did you guys hear that Obama is a Socialist? Good for your company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 You are insulted by the thought our historical framework, foundation, and infrastructure as a country has benefited most of us as Americans? Christ almighty; you are absolutely driven to blind rationalization where anti-American fervor becomes an adequate end to justify means. There is nothing wrong with everyone NOT competing with the same set of circumstances...but you state we all are. You are certifiably delusional and you spend a decent amount of time typing blantant nonsense. Let me see if I understand your take on this......? The people that are not happy with what he ACTUALLY said are just blind and have some vendetta against Obama? But the people who are trying to defend him and make excuses and try to change what he actually said into what you think he actually meant are just defending him because of what??? Why can't you just say yes he said it and it was a real stupid thing to say??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Your post has absolutely nothing to do with my specific and factual observations with Vanilla Ice's statements. Please direct your sweeping generalizations and hackneyed assumptions away from me. TIA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice1 Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) The company I work for has a code of ethics. One of them includes putting all money back into our company, our people, city, states, country, and not investing in foreign tax havens. What does that have to do with anything? There is nothing wrong with what your company is doing from an investment perspective but by the same token there is nothing wrong with a company investing in a foreign enterprise or parking cash for future investment provided it is legal. What company? I would be interested in the type of scope, and if public it would be easy to verify what they are doing. Our government bails out GM as an example instead of reorganizing through Bankruptcy yet they manufacture in some 30 countries and under 25% of their sales are in the USA. Ever track their major losing enterprises lately? Companies park cash all over the world. My guess is you would call this a tax haven, What you seem to be calling tax havens are simply standard operating procedures with decisions based on risk. It would be foolish to park a Billion in working capital as an example at Well Fargo for obvious reasons. Edited July 29, 2012 by Ice1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice1 Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) You are insulted by the thought our historical framework, foundation, and infrastructure as a country has benefited most of us as Americans? Christ almighty; you are absolutely driven to blind rationalization where anti-American fervor becomes an adequate end to justify means. There is nothing wrong with everyone NOT competing with the same set of circumstances...but you state we all are. You are certifiably delusional and you spend a decent amount of time typing blantant nonsense. Stop being such an idiot. People like you have actually forgotten who is the government. Some of us pay big dollars annually to support our infrastructure and manage to create jobs with acumen and hard work in the process often times in spite of the government. Regardless, those that do create business actually help the government in the process. The foolishness of trying to justify a gaffe by Obama in the way you are trying is an amazement. He screwed up, it is not the first time and certainly won't be the last. Edited July 29, 2012 by Ice1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 What does that have to do with anything? There is nothing wrong with what your company is doing from an investment perspective but by the same token there is nothing wrong with a company investing in a foreign enterprise or parking cash for future investment provided it is legal. What company? I would be interested in the type of scope, and if public it would be easy to verify what they are doing. Our government bails out GM as an example instead of reorganizing through Bankruptcy yet they manufacture in some 30 countries and under 25% of their sales are in the USA. Ever track their major losing enterprises lately? Companies park cash all over the world. My guess is you would call this a tax haven, What you seem to be calling tax havens are simply standard operating procedures with decisions based on risk. It would be foolish to park a Billion in working capital as an example at Well Fargo for obvious reasons. I think he wants a "thatta boy" or maybe a cookie?? But he has directed me to not respond to his posts so he may get mad at me again?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 In case anyone seriously wondered how the non-partisan fact check site, politifact, would weigh in on this issue: http://www.politifac...nt-build-truth/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice1 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Here is the real truth meter. Did Obama say: "If you've got a business, you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen." Why yes Bushwacked, it is completely 100% TRUE that President Obama said that. He made a major gaffe, trying to infer what he said or meant to say is politics, nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayItAintSoJoe Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 In case anyone seriously wondered how the non-partisan fact check site, politifact, would weigh in on this issue: http://www.politifac...nt-build-truth/ Our ruling In speeches and videos, the Romney campaign has repeatedly distorted Obama's words. By plucking two sentences out of context, Romney twists the president's remarks and ignores their real meaning. The preceding sentences make clear that Obama was talking about the importance of government-provided infrastructure and education to the success of private businesses. Romney also conveniently ignores Obama's clear summary of his message, that "the point is ... that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together." By leaving out the "individual initiative" reference, Romney and his supporters have misled viewers and given a false impression. For that, we rate the claim False. I think politifact got it right. Many on here have agreed on what he meant to say. The debate now seems to have shifted more towards how much govenment aids in creating success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 In case anyone seriously wondered how the non-partisan fact check site, politifact, would weigh in on this issue: http://www.politifac...nt-build-truth/ Dude - HE SAID IT!!!! Politifact has no better knowledge of what he "meant" than you or me or anyone else so them coming out with this is just an opinion. You mentioned your post about facts - the FACT is he said it. Why is it so hard to admit he said it and that it was an incredibly stupid thing to say. We can all argue what he meant but I don't get how you can argue that it was not something stupid to say?? It is OK to admit that he said something stupid - you can go to bed tonight having your sweet Obama dreams even if you admit he said something dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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