loaf Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 trying to find video of the Japanese pommel horse dude who caused all the controversy...anyone have a link? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 So, I could have sworn about four years ago, the discussion was had of how much easier it is for swimmers to rack up medals than other athletes because of how many events they could enter. I brought up the fact that the training allows top swimmers to be competitive at a much bigger range of distances (than say runners) and was promptly shouted down by any number of people who ever swam competitively. Apparently I was way off base with that claim. I'm curious if any of those people would like to comment on the fact that there's a Chinese swimmer who won gold and sliver in the 200 and 400m and is the current world champion and gold medal favorite in the 1500. Let me just say right here and now that will never, ever, happen in track. Not even close. Not even by some roided up East German back in the day. 400/800, why not, 800/1500, sure. 1500/3000, absolutely. However, it would be nothing short of astounding for them to even qualify for the games (assuming they competed for a country of any consequence) at the 200, 400, and 1500, even if they didn't make it out of prelims. When dude won the 200 and 400 in 96 (or 2000?), people were tripping over themselves saying how amazing that was. However, I'm rather certain that adding the 1500 to that was entirely off the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 So, I could have sworn about four years ago, the discussion was had of how much easier it is for swimmers to rack up medals than other athletes because of how many events they could enter. I brought up the fact that the training allows top swimmers to be competitive at a much bigger range of distances (than say runners) and was promptly shouted down by any number of people who ever swam competitively. Apparently I was way off base with that claim. I'm curious if any of those people would like to comment on the fact that there's a Chinese swimmer who won gold and sliver in the 200 and 400m and is the current world champion and gold medal favorite in the 1500. Let me just say right here and now that will never, ever, happen in track. Not even close. Not even by some roided up East German back in the day. 400/800, why not, 800/1500, sure. 1500/3000, absolutely. However, it would be nothing short of astounding for them to even qualify for the games (assuming they competed for a country of any consequence) at the 200, 400, and 1500, even if they didn't make it out of prelims. When dude won the 200 and 400 in 96 (or 2000?), people were tripping over themselves saying how amazing that was. However, I'm rather certain that adding the 1500 to that was entirely off the table. And don't forget all the relays, as well as different strokes. There's a 100 & 200 individual for all 4 strokes (AFAIK), in track are there 4 events for the same distances with different kind of running strides? It isn't unheard of for one swimmer to be very good in 2-3 strokes. So they compete in those (say both 100 & 200), then maybe the 1500, and also do a leg of a medley relay, and possibly even the individual medley. That is why I'm having a bit of a hard time with the Michael Phelps greatest Oympian of all time. If he wins another gold or two this time, I'll give it more credit. If he only gets some silver and bronze and breaks the record (over the course of 4 Olypic competitions) with a CHIPS AHOY!load of medals because he competed in 8-10 swimming events, its more about volume in a short span of greater long term success. Look at some of the other sports where people compete into their 30s or 40s, and have been in 5-6 Olympics. Yet their sport only really allows competition in 1-2 events, so they'd have to compete in 10 Olympics just to win 20 medals (and medal every time). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 And don't forget all the relays, as well as different strokes. There's a 100 & 200 individual for all 4 strokes (AFAIK), in track are there 4 events for the same distances with different kind of running strides? It isn't unheard of for one swimmer to be very good in 2-3 strokes. So they compete in those (say both 100 & 200), then maybe the 1500, and also do a leg of a medley relay, and possibly even the individual medley. That is why I'm having a bit of a hard time with the Michael Phelps greatest Oympian of all time. If he wins another gold or two this time, I'll give it more credit. If he only gets some silver and bronze and breaks the record (over the course of 4 Olypic competitions) with a CHIPS AHOY!load of medals because he competed in 8-10 swimming events, its more about volume in a short span of greater long term success. Look at some of the other sports where people compete into their 30s or 40s, and have been in 5-6 Olympics. Yet their sport only really allows competition in 1-2 events, so they'd have to compete in 10 Olympics just to win 20 medals (and medal every time). The multitude of relays and strokes was discussed at length and agreed upon by most. It was specifically my comment that it was easier for swimmers to compete at a wider range of distances that brought the arguments. The implication was that there was as much specialization required at various distances in swimming as there is in track. Something that the Chinese dude is sort of illustrating may not be the case. And, even if this guy is just really that special, there will simply never be someone "that special" in track. There will never be a guy who is the odds-on favorite in the 200, 400, and 1500. Which was the point I was trying to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Now 4 women's badminton teams were disqualified for throwing matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Now 4 women's badminton teams were disqualified for throwing matches. That settles it. I simply cannot take that sport seriously any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaf Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 trying to find video of the Japanese pommel horse dude who caused all the controversy...anyone have a link? Which QB was a high draft pick coming out of Division II... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Which QB was a high draft pick coming out of Division II... Not even Dan Pastorini can find that video But why was the Japanese paying off officials with American currency in London? http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/olympics-fourth-place-medal/why-did-japan-coach-100-bills-hand-file-141557317--oly.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Olympic Cheerleaders http://sports.yahoo.com/photos/olympics-olympic-cheerleaders-1343783675-slideshow/ Enjoyed the mens indoor volleyball match against Germany yesterday. Seemed like a lot more blocking going on than I saw during the women's game. Congrats to the US women's gymnastics for the team gold, was cool to see how they all worked together and Jordyn gets her gold after all. Of course the RUS team really fell apart at the end on the balance beam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaf Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Not even Dan Pastorini can find that video But why was the Japanese paying off officials with American currency in London? http://sports.yahoo....57317--oly.html apparently reviews of gymnastics cost cash. it is to deter reviews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Btw, what was up with the clown suits the us men's beach vb team was wearing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Btw, what was up with the clown suits the us men's beach vb team was wearing? I missed the match yesterday, but did see them play their first game. The uniforms were a little different. You talking about these? I know the woman made some comments about uniform rule changes. It sounds like before they had to wear bathing suits, possibly even bikinis. Now they can wear more, and I recall some with long sleeve shirts, and others with long sleeve pants (or both). Its been pretty chilly there during some of the matches (played after dark) so they're wearing more. Got a kick out of the onewoman's team wearing T-shirts with bras over them with their team info (country, player#, name). Probably because they didn't have T-shirts or long sleeve tops with that on them (like the ones that May & Walsh were wearing. http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/08/beach_volleyball_at_the_london_olympics_what_happened_to_their_bikinis.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I missed the match yesterday, but did see them play their first game. The uniforms were a little different. You talking about these? Yes, those were the ones. Even the side of dude's hat that you can't see has the silly argyle pattern on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I'm curious if any of those people would like to comment on the fact that there's a Chinese swimmer who won gold and sliver in the 200 and 400m and is the current world champion and gold medal favorite in the 1500. Let me just say right here and now that will never, ever, happen in track. Not even close. Not even by some roided up East German back in the day. 400/800, why not, 800/1500, sure. 1500/3000, absolutely. However, it would be nothing short of astounding for them to even qualify for the games (assuming they competed for a country of any consequence) at the 200, 400, and 1500, even if they didn't make it out of prelims. well first of all, what that dude is doing in those different races is basically unprecedented in swimming. so it's not like it's some every day occurrence. but mainly I would have to point out that swimming 200m is a lot more exerting than running 200m. you're comparing a 19 second run with a 1 min, 45 sec swim. the same distances (200m, 400m, 1500m) are not comparable from pool to track, meaning they span less of divide on the sprint-vs-endurance spectrum in the pool than they do on the track. they are all three more to the endurance end. probably more comparable to like the 1500m, 3000m and 10,000m runs. has anybody ever competed at a high level in those three events or anything similar? I dunno, I'd have to look it up, but it certainly doesn't strike me as being inconceivable on its face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) probably more comparable to like the 1500m, 3000m and 10,000m runs. has anybody ever competed at a high level in those three events or anything similar? I dunno, I'd have to look it up paavo nurmi, considered by many to be "the greatest olympian" of all time: Gold 1920 Antwerp 10000m Gold 1920 Antwerp Individual cross country Gold 1920 Antwerp Team cross country Gold 1924 Paris 1500m Gold 1924 Paris 5000m Gold 1924 Paris Individual cross country Gold 1924 Paris Team cross country Gold 1924 Paris 3000 m team Gold 1928 Amsterdam 10000m Silver 1920 Antwerp 5000m Silver 1928 Amsterdam 5000m Silver 1928 Amsterdam 3000 m steeplechase Edited August 1, 2012 by Azazello1313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) well first of all, what that dude is doing in those different races is basically unprecedented in swimming. so it's not like it's some every day occurrence. but mainly I would have to point out that swimming 200m is a lot more exerting than running 200m. you're comparing a 19 second run with a 1 min, 45 sec swim. the same distances (200m, 400m, 1500m) are not comparable from pool to track, meaning they span less of divide on the sprint-vs-endurance spectrum in the pool than they do on the track. they are all three more to the endurance end. probably more comparable to like the 1500m, 3000m and 10,000m runs. has anybody ever competed at a high level in those three events or anything similar? I dunno, I'd have to look it up, but it certainly doesn't strike me as being inconceivable on its face. Actually, I would compare it to the 400/800/3000 (though the 3000 nor 3200 aren't in the Olympics but are at other levels of track) based on the fact that the shortest swim is a 50 and the shortest run is a 100. So it basically doubles. Just because it takes longer to swim 50 m than it does to run 100, does not make it harder. They're both essentially all-out sprints that, none the less, do actually require some stamina. And, frankly, someone competing in the modern day would be about as unlikely to pull off the 400/800/3K (if it existed). As they would the 200/400/1500. As for Paavo, and with all due respect, you simply can't compare something that happened nearly a century ago to now. There is simply no comparison to the world-wide level of competition. Regardless, for someone to pull that sort of thing off in track. To be fastest at something like the 400 and the 3000, they would have to be super-human (even relative to a big group of athletes already considered such). While this feat in the pool is unprecedented, it's not as if the guy is a god among men out there. ETA: even if you did want to compare by time, a 1:45 200m swim would not compare to a 1500 meter run, but rather an 800. So, you'd be looking at something along the lines of a 800/1500/5K. ETA2: Take the world records at 200/400/1500 in the swim and break them down to the pace you swim each 100m at. The 1500 is swum at only 10.5% slower pace. Now take the 800/1500/5K and compare the pace each 100m is run at. it's 20.8% slower at the longer distance. Edited August 1, 2012 by detlef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Actually, I would compare it to the 400/800/3000 (though the 3000 nor 3200 aren't in the Olympics but are at other levels of track) based on the fact that the shortest swim is a 50 and the shortest run is a 100. So it basically doubles. Just because it takes longer to swim 50 m than it does to run 100, does not make it harder. They're both essentially all-out sprints that, none the less, do actually require some stamina. this is your baseline of equivalence? the shortest event? the 400m run is basically a 40 second sprint. that is not equivalent on the sprint/endurance spectrum to a swim that takes more than twice as long. the 400m run is definitely more of a sprint than a 200m swim. As for Paavo, and with all due respect, you simply can't compare something that happened nearly a century ago to now. There is simply no comparison to the world-wide level of competition. ok, how about this guy who has won world class races at every distance from 1500m to marathons, and even set a national record in the 800m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chargerz Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Olympic Cheerleaders http://sports.yahoo....3675-slideshow/ Hubba hubba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddahj Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Now 4 women's badminton teams were disqualified for throwing matches. It's up to eight now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddahj Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) Olympic Cheerleaders http://sports.yahoo....3675-slideshow/ nice Edited August 2, 2012 by buddahj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chester Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 It's up to eight now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) this is your baseline of equivalence? Says the guy who claims how long the event takes needs to be the baseline, throws out 1:45 for a 200, and then skips right past the 800, which also takes about that long and goes straight for the 1500, which takes twice as long as that. As far as the Ethiopian guy is concerned, very impressive indeed. Though it should be noted that, at various times during his career, he was either winning at one batch of distances or another, but not both. That 1500 is impressive as it is certainly the outlier. Doubling up 5k/10K is really nothing rare at all, but adding in the 1500 is big. None the less, you'll notice that there's certainly a progression from shorter to longer distances through his career. He wasn't winning Marathons and 5Ks in the same year. ETA: As impressive as the 1500/5K/10K triple is, the races still have a more common pace per 100m than the 800/1500/5K. Top 1500 pace is 14 sec per 100 and top 10K is 15.8 per 100, a 12.8% change. Top 800 pace is 12.5 secons and top 5K pace is 15.12, a 20.8% change. So, in other words, a far more understandible cluster of races for one guy to be world class at all of them than the other. Oh, and I'm curious what his 800m record was and where that would have put him on the world stage. Edited August 2, 2012 by detlef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddahj Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Opps, misread the title of the article. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaf Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 1/100th of a second. Incredible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) well first of all, what that dude is doing in those different races is basically unprecedented in swimming. so it's not like it's some every day occurrence. While not every day, it appears that he's not even the only one who is likely to compete very well at those three events in these Olympics. Park, the dude from S Korea has sliver in the 200 and 400 and has a top 8 qualifying time in the 1500. More importantly, If you compare the semis/heats of adjacent distances in swimming, you see many repeating names. 4 in the 50/100, 5 in 100/200, 5 in the 200/400 (no semis, just heats), and 10 in the 400/1500 (again, no semis, just heats). Actually, there's even another dude who qualified in the 200/400/1500. A Greek guy, but he didn't make the semis. None the less, I'd be curious to see if we get the same level of over-lap on the track between adjacent races and if we see two guys as medal contenders in 3. Surely there'll be some at 100/200, and likely at 5K/10K, but I'd be surprised to see much more beyond that. ETA: But wait! There's more! Apparently one of the main reasons it "doesn't happen every day" is because the Olympics only happen every 4 years. In 2008, Park was top 16 in the 1500 and medalled in the other two. Vanderkay from the US medalled in the 200, finished 4th in the 400, and just missed the final in the 1500. Some Tunesian dude was basically the opposite. Winning the 1500, finishing 5th in the 400, and making the semis of the 200. Oh, and in '04, Grant Hackett from Austalia won the 1500, finished 2nd in the 400, and 5th in the 200. Edited August 2, 2012 by detlef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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