Azazello1313 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 one could sustain an injury sneezing. the mere virtue of adding competition to an activity doesn't constitute sport imo. heck, shall we create a new sport "airporting?" grabbing the bag from over head, trekking through long concourses to get baggage claim, then on to transport.... requires much more exertion than golf. eh, I don't really agree with that. can you burn more calories running through an airport, (or getting on a treadmill for an hour?) sure. a golf swing is not exerting for a long period of time, but for that one second it is extremely "athletic". coordination, muscle-memory, precisely controlled extreme exertion. a lot like, say, pitching a baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 eh, I don't really agree with that. can you burn more calories running through an airport, (or getting on a treadmill for an hour?) sure. a golf swing is not exerting for a long period of time, but for that one second it is extremely "athletic". coordination, muscle-memory, precisely controlled extreme exertion. a lot like, say, pitching a baseball. .... along with archery, bowling, pool, and darts.... much more limited athletic involved imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) While I've never been to a World Cup or Premier league soccer game; I challenge anyone to go to one of the better places in America to watch MLS ,specifically Seattle (but also places like Portland and sporting KC) and soak in the atmosphere of 50K+ crazed fans and come away with the impression that it was boring. My brother in law went to his first soccer game a couple weeks ago and jokingly asked if we were going to watch gladiators and lions battle to the death at half time. Edited August 28, 2012 by bushwacked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 .... along with archery, bowling, pool, and darts.... much more limited athletic involved imo. hitting a ball 300 yards is the same as throwing a dart? tell me exactly why you think that is a better comparison than pitching a baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 hitting a ball 300 yards is the same as throwing a dart? tell me exactly why you think that is a better comparison than pitching a baseball. Not even the pros can hit a baseball 900 feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 the comparison was that each (golf, darts, bowling, pool, archery) require a degree of hand-eye coordination and/or a limited athletic motion. the difference in baseball imo is that the competition includes the batter. the 100 mph fastball is not the end-all, be-all. you must get that batter out. while playing catch is an athletic endeavor, baseball is a sport. one's physical prowess/success is in direct contrast to one's opponent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) the difference in baseball imo is that the competition includes the batter. the 100 mph fastball is not the end-all, be-all. you must get that batter out. while playing catch is an athletic endeavor, baseball is a sport. one's physical prowess/success is in direct contrast to one's opponent. Just because golf does not have a direct human opponent (some say it is ones self), it does have a course. Trees,water,sand,out of bounds,rough,down/up slopes to contend with. Each of those components plays a direct role in the shot selection. Yes, baseball is a sport and a pitcher is an athlete playing in said sport. Let me know what physical exertion a pitcher does (NL of course) that a golfer does not. A RP is involved in roughly 1-2 innings per game in roughly half the games of a season yet he is an athlete playing a "sport". A golfer, in your eyes, does 10x the physical activity yet you deem it unsport worthy. Edited August 28, 2012 by tazinib1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 a golfer does not do 10x the physical activity of a relief pitcher in my eyes. a pitcher (sp or reliever) has to get the batter out. either strike him out, induce a ground ball, or fly out and get 3 of them. the pitcher is required to exert himself more frequently in a shorter amount of time. there is no 5-10 minute walk before his next batter. he must also be able to field balls if hit his way or cover at bases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I love ya Mike, but we will vehemently agree to disagree here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I love ya Mike, but we will vehemently agree to disagree here. wouldn't be the first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 the comparison was that each (golf, darts, bowling, pool, archery) require a degree of hand-eye coordination and/or a limited athletic motion. the difference in baseball imo is that the competition includes the batter. the 100 mph fastball is not the end-all, be-all. you must get that batter out. while playing catch is an athletic endeavor, baseball is a sport. one's physical prowess/success is in direct contrast to one's opponent. the 350-yard drive is not the be-all, end-all either. if anything, a golfer faces a lot more variety of shots than a pitcher does. the point of the comparison between a hitting a golf ball and picthing a baseball is that with both, the object is to launch something with as much coordinated strength and precision as humanly possible. in both cases it is a far cry from throwing a dart. and if direct engagement with an opponent is what makes it a "sport", then track and field isn't a sport, nor is swimming, ski racing, etc. but checkers.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 the 350-yard drive is not the be-all, end-all either. if anything, a golfer faces a lot more variety of shots than a pitcher does. the point of the comparison between a hitting a golf ball and picthing a baseball is that with both, the object is to launch something with as much coordinated strength and precision as humanly possible. in both cases it is a far cry from throwing a dart. but with baseball, you are trying to get an opponent out. the similarity to darts is throwing with precision (more related to putting imo) and if direct engagement with an opponent is what makes it a "sport", then track and field isn't a sport, nor is swimming, ski racing, etc. but checkers.... a race has that direct engagement imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 a race has that direct engagement imo I agree, in the exact same way that a golf competition does. individuals competing against each other to post the best score/time against the same course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I agree, in the exact same way that a golf competition does. individuals competing against each other to post the best score/time against the same course. while i agree that they are trying to get the best score on the same course, i believe it has an entirely different nuance than beating someone head to head in a footrace, swimming meet, cycling event or skiing competitions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I think people that don't follow NASCAR or any other motorsports don't understand how hard it is to simply turn the steering wheel. An average car like you or me drive you can probably make a 90 degree turn with one hand and one finger, that definitely isn't the case with stock cars. A stock car you have to use a lot more force just to turn the wheel, and that is when you actually have power steering, sometimes in racing the power steering box goes out, and that driver (which is an athlete or he would not be able to do this) does not slow down or lose any speed. Could you imagine turning a 3,500 pound machine at 180+ MPH's with NO power steering, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that that could really put a strain on your muscles. I also do see you're point about how extraneous variables can impact the final result of the race or competition. But this goes back to NASCAR being a team sport a typical team has anywhere from 20-40 employees working at the teams headquarters, building the race car doing their best to make less of variables matter. Also another part of the sport is the pit crew, a crew of guys who change 4 tires and put 22 gallons of fuel in a car in under 13 seconds, they are athletes too. I also believe that there are just as many 'extraneous variables' in football and a lot of other ball sports. Lets say a pass happy team with a 14-2 record that also has no run game, has to go play a team with an excellent run game, and all the players and coaches wake up that morning and it is pouring down rain, that pass happy offense isn't going to be as effective as it would have if it was a clear day, and the weaker clearly not a talented team could come out on top. One last thing, if race car drivers weren't athletes, I don't think AP would've gave Jimmie Johnson AP Male Athlete of the Year. By the way he also did win five championships in a row, which is the single great achievement of any athlete in any sport. I follow plenty of motorsports, including IRL (Indy Car, CART, whatever but not anymore), F1 (no longer), American LeMans, Grand-Am / Rolex, MotoGP, World Superbike, AMA Road racing (the last 3 are motorcycle road racing), but I just cannot get into NASCAR. It just doesn't do it for me, going in a circle with little shifting, changes in brake/gas, turning, etc. Each to his own, and I wouldn't say they are not sports or that the drivers/riders are not athletes. Many of these people are in much better shape than some athletes in other sports (golf, bowling, baseball or football even). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joose Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I understand that Danica Patrick is 5'2" tall and weighs in at 99 pounds. She competes with these great athletes. Sorry, not a sport. Danica Patrick doesn't compete with those guys and will she will NEVER win a Cup or Nationwide series race. I mean if you idea of competing is running in the top 30 4 laps down, then yes she does compete. You don't understand she has one of the best cars out there, and one of the top teams, and still only manages to run with the tier 3 cars/drivers? Obviously you don't watch the races, you just read about all the hype about her on ESPN.com and what not, of course they are going to make it sound better than it actually is, shes a girl. I'd compare it to if a girl some how was on an NFL team and had 2 carries for 5 yards, it would be all of the news, and media narrative would make it sound a lot more impressive than it actually was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joose Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I follow plenty of motorsports, including IRL (Indy Car, CART, whatever but not anymore), F1 (no longer), American LeMans, Grand-Am / Rolex, MotoGP, World Superbike, AMA Road racing (the last 3 are motorcycle road racing), but I just cannot get into NASCAR. It just doesn't do it for me, going in a circle with little shifting, changes in brake/gas, turning, etc. Each to his own, and I wouldn't say they are not sports or that the drivers/riders are not athletes. Many of these people are in much better shape than some athletes in other sports (golf, bowling, baseball or football even). Just because they only go in 'circles' doesn't make them any less of drivers, when the Cup guys do go to road courses twice a year (Watkins Glen, Sonoma) A bunch of 'road ringers' make starts, and what do you know the same drivers that finish in the top ten normally at a oval track, are the same drivers that finish and win at the road courses. It's hard to explain but the cars are set up to only make left handed turns at oval tracks, you are driving the car literally on the edge, 1% more throttle you would wreck, turn it a tiny bit more the car will spin out on you, all those drivers are so skilled they make it look extremely easy. Saying all a NASCAR driver does is make left handed turns in goes in circles is like summing up baseball saying that all they do is hit a ball and run a diamond. If you want to sum NASCAR up and say thats all it is, that is just incorrect. Someone that doesn't understand football could say its a bunch of mean hitting each other trying to get a ball to cross a line, but we all know there is a lot more that goes into it than that. What I am trying to say is if you really get down to make each sports is, and what the actual goal is of any sport, with out understanding all the details, they all sound pretty stupid. Soccer; bunch of guys/girls trying to get a ball in a net. Football; bunch of guys trying to get a ball to cross a line. Basetball; bunch of guys/girls trying to get a ball threw a basket. Etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I mean if you idea of competing is running in the top 30 4 laps down, then yes she does compete. You don't understand she has one of the best cars out there, and one of the top teams, and still only manages to run with the tier 3 cars/drivers? Obviously you don't watch the races, you just read about all the hype about her on ESPN.com and what not, of course they are going to make it sound better than it actually is what does dale jr. have to do with this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 politics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joose Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 what does dale jr. have to do with this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackass Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Just because golf does not have a direct human opponent (some say it is ones self), it does have a course. Trees,water,sand,out of bounds,rough,down/up slopes to contend with. Each of those components plays a direct role in the shot selection. Yes, baseball is a sport and a pitcher is an athlete playing in said sport. Let me know what physical exertion a pitcher does (NL of course) that a golfer does not. A RP is involved in roughly 1-2 innings per game in roughly half the games of a season yet he is an athlete playing a "sport". A golfer, in your eyes, does 10x the physical activity yet you deem it unsport worthy. Golf is hard as hell, call it a sport or not a sport, but i think we can all agree you don't need to be an athlete to be good at it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Just because they only go in 'circles' doesn't make them any less of drivers, when the Cup guys do go to road courses twice a year (Watkins Glen, Sonoma) A bunch of 'road ringers' make starts, and what do you know the same drivers that finish in the top ten normally at a oval track, are the same drivers that finish and win at the road courses. It's hard to explain but the cars are set up to only make left handed turns at oval tracks, you are driving the car literally on the edge, 1% more throttle you would wreck, turn it a tiny bit more the car will spin out on you, all those drivers are so skilled they make it look extremely easy. Saying all a NASCAR driver does is make left handed turns in goes in circles is like summing up baseball saying that all they do is hit a ball and run a diamond. If you want to sum NASCAR up and say thats all it is, that is just incorrect. Someone that doesn't understand football could say its a bunch of mean hitting each other trying to get a ball to cross a line, but we all know there is a lot more that goes into it than that. What I am trying to say is if you really get down to make each sports is, and what the actual goal is of any sport, with out understanding all the details, they all sound pretty stupid. Soccer; bunch of guys/girls trying to get a ball in a net. Football; bunch of guys trying to get a ball to cross a line. Basetball; bunch of guys/girls trying to get a ball threw a basket. Etc... I get it you're a big NASCAR fan and think its cool. I think its lame and overly hyped. The fact that when they go to road circuits many teams hire ringers (Boris Said) speaks to the inability of some drivers to compete well on those road circuits. (I'll have to take your word for who wins etc.) IRL/CART raced at Ovals as well as permanent road courses and temporary street circuits. Their drivers raced in all races, no super subs because the driver doesn't know how to turn right (or shift). I also have a dislike because it gets so much coverage here in the US, but things like F1, and other road racing (let alone any motorcycle racing outside of dirtbikes) get treated like garbage. NASCAR race runs over, no problem SPEED stays with it and pre-empts some other event I'm trying to watch. Then I'm lucky if my even is ever reshown again in full, while the NASCAR race is reshown multiple times. I get it, its popular here, and many follow it, But I cannot understand why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Golf is hard as hell, call it a sport or not a sport, but i think we can all agree you don't need to be an athlete to be good at it. You can same almost the same thing about every other sport as I sort of mentioned in a previous post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackass Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 You can same almost the same thing about every other sport as I sort of mentioned in a previous post. I didn't read all the previous posts. But no, you can't say that about any 'real' sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Lets see...just a few off the top of my head. The Fridge Fernando David Wells Babe Ruth???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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