delusions of grandeur

New MLB Wildcard Rule

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The Braves are officially protesting the call/game.

Edited by buddahj

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I dont have time to watch alot of MLB lately. I do spend alot of weekends on the softball field with my daughter's team. I see bad umpiring every weekend.

 

Thats was easily the worst call I've seen in a long long time

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The Braves are officially protesting the call/game.

MLB ruled on the protest, no surprise it wasn't in favor of the Braves

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It was a bad call but, as I understood the nature of a protest (as it was explained by the dudes covering the game), I'm not surprised at all that it was denied.

 

Quite simply, it could have been a very routine play for the infielder had there not been the screw-up between him and the outfielder. And that is essentially the definition of an infield fly. In other words, it was not a disregard for the rules, even if the call was the result of poor judgment.

 

There is, after all, no line painted that says, beyond here, it can't be an infield fly. Now, if you ask me, if there was one, it would not be as deep as where that ball landed, but again, that just makes it a bad call. But no different than calling a ball a strike or messing up a safe/out play.

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It was a bad call but, as I understood the nature of a protest (as it was explained by the dudes covering the game), I'm not surprised at all that it was denied.

 

Quite simply, it could have been a very routine play for the infielder had there not been the screw-up between him and the outfielder. And that is essentially the definition of an infield fly. In other words, it was not a disregard for the rules, even if the call was the result of poor judgment.

 

There is, after all, no line painted that says, beyond here, it can't be an infield fly. Now, if you ask me, if there was one, it would not be as deep as where that ball landed, but again, that just makes it a bad call. But no different than calling a ball a strike or messing up a safe/out play.

it is also supposed to be called immediately, which it was not

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I was at the game tonight at Turner Field and it was a debacle. The call was terrible and the fans response was an embarrassment. This is the reason there should not be a one game playoff. In a three game series you can overcome a bad break or a bad call. In a one game playoff you can't.

 

The Braves played terrible defense and maybe didn't deserve to win, but the chance was taken away. The truly sad part was I took my sons, who are 8 and 10, to see the game in part because it could've ended up being Chipper's last game. The fans stayed and chanted for him to come out after the game and he never did. No final tip of the cap. Instead my boys will remember a poor show of sportsmanship by their hometown fans and not the final bow of a Hall of Famer.

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:lol: Chipper should be happy his last game will be remembered for the bad call and not him sailing his throw into right field.

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I was at the game tonight at Turner Field and it was a debacle. The call was terrible and the fans response was an embarrassment. This is the reason there should not be a one game playoff. In a three game series you can overcome a bad break or a bad call. In a one game playoff you can't.

 

Exactly, the cherry on top of the CHIPS AHOY!-flavored sundae.

 

Not to say that the Braves deserved to win, they didn't, but that was a game-changing call that only amplified how ridiculous it is that one bad game or even call can send a season full of winning series into the crapper. It's not the way the game is supposed to be...

 

But as for the embarrassment with the fans littering the field, it would have taken all my will-power not to do the same, but the whole display was just shameful, and I'm sorry your kids had to see that. It really makes me sad that Chipper's last game turned out this way.

 

(Correction: continues to make me sad that he didn't come out for a curtain call. He and Bobby are two of the best of all time, but are kind of pieces of CHIPS AHOY! as people)

Edited by delusions of grandeur

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My youngest son loved it because it was exciting while my oldest who is a 10 year old baseball purist, was very upset because the fans were throwing stuff. He knew it was wrong and was afraid the game would be forfeited.

 

He was asking questions like:

 

How can the umpires come back out on the field someone is going to hurt them?

 

What about the stuff that doesn't make it to the field? Iti is going to land on other fans.

 

The best comment he made when we were driving home.

 

He said the braves fans should be embarrassed, but imagine if it had happened in New York. Or Philly ...

 

One more thing. There was a point after the delay when theCards were warming up on the infield. Allen Craig was throwing grounders to the infielders. A full bottle of water landed less than three feet from him and exploded. It was thrown from the section next to where we were sitting in the fourth deck. Imagine if that would have hitCraig or come up short and clocked a fan.

 

The whole throwing stuff on the field was probably related to the fact that the stadium was out of beer by the end of the sixth inning. Not cut off or last call. Most of the vendors were out. I had to drink a Miller Lite,for god's sake! Drunk people do stupid stuff and there were a lot of hammered folks at the Ted tonight.

Edited by lkirc

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So, about the call. Like I said earlier, at very least, I don't think it was something that should have been officially protested. And, frankly, the more I look at it and listen to guys talk about it, I don't even think it was all that bad a call.

 

By the letter of the rule, infield fly should be called when an infielder can make the play in a routine manner. The only thing that stopped dude from making that play was miscommunication. Otherwise, it was very routine. And, actually, that very lack of communication sort of makes the point even stronger. Because, the player who is supposed to make the call in that case is the outfielder and yet even he thought that the infielder had it all under control or he would have made a better point of calling him off and making the play himself.

 

So, again, it seems absolutely reasonable that an ump would look at that and call infield fly. He may have been slow on the call, but it was by no means a horrible call. Again, by the rules that define what an infield fly is.

 

I would bet that both teams were victims of several worse calls on pitches alone. Well, because, technically, this wasn't really a bad call. Just one that made a big difference and seemed lame at the time.

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So, about the call. Like I said earlier, at very least, I don't think it was something that should have been officially protested. And, frankly, the more I look at it and listen to guys talk about it, I don't even think it was all that bad a call.

 

By the letter of the rule, infield fly should be called when an infielder can make the play in a routine manner. The only thing that stopped dude from making that play was miscommunication. Otherwise, it was very routine. And, actually, that very lack of communication sort of makes the point even stronger. Because, the player who is supposed to make the call in that case is the outfielder and yet even he thought that the infielder had it all under control or he would have made a better point of calling him off and making the play himself.

 

So, again, it seems absolutely reasonable that an ump would look at that and call infield fly. He may have been slow on the call, but it was by no means a horrible call. Again, by the rules that define what an infield fly is.

 

I would bet that both teams were victims of several worse calls on pitches alone. Well, because, technically, this wasn't really a bad call. Just one that made a big difference and seemed lame at the time.

 

 

the infield fly rule was born so that an infielder could'nt purposely drop a routine fly ball and turn 2.

 

On this play last night, the shortstop ran what looked like 15 - 20 steps backwards into left field. For him to make that catch (and he could have had he not backed off) he had to get a great jump on the ball when it was hit, got a great read on where it was going to land and ran ( about 20 yds backwards into the outfield) to the spot to catch the ball.

 

No way that was an infield fly

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How about a rule that says you can't call the infield fly rule if you're the OUTFIELD umpire. :doh:

 

That said, I could see why that ump would make that call IF it had happened closer to the infield. In other words, the SS was pretty much camped under the ball, then moved forward suddenly... I thought he was clearly going to catch it until he moved at the last second (right after the call was made). He either lost the ball, was confused by the ump's call, thought he was called off by the LF... Something. But, again, that ball was nowhere near the infield. Brutal way to lose a one-and-done game.

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So, in other words, ignore the bit actually written in the rule about the infielder being able to make the play routinely and, instead, insert an imaginary line that doesn't exist.

 

Sounds good.

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So, in other words, ignore the bit actually written in the rule about the infielder being able to make the play routinely and, instead, insert an imaginary line that doesn't exist.

 

Sounds good.

 

Well...they are also supposed to call it almost immediately so that the runners know what the hell is going on. He called it just before the catch was to be made. Terrible call all the way around IMO.

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As much as I agree that it was a bad call, I fail to see how it cost the Braves the game.....Momentum killer, absolutely, and one never knows what can transpire given bases loaded and one out, but there were other situations earlier that hurt much, much worse.

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Well...they are also supposed to call it almost immediately so that the runners know what the hell is going on. He called it just before the catch was to be made. Terrible call all the way around IMO.

 

I mentioned that he should have been faster on the call. And I'm not saying that it absolutely 100% was exactly the right call and to make it any other way would be bad. My words were "And, frankly, the more I look at it and listen to guys talk about it, I don't even think it was all that bad a call."

 

As in, everyone needs to get over it. This is not a watershed moment nor a glaring reason why a one game play-off sucks, because one insanely bad call can ruin a team's season, and everything else I'm hearing. It was a call that, actually, was very reasonable. Perhaps not cut and dry absolutely correct, but certainly not the opposite either.

 

And, besides, it didn't even end the inning.

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heard on espn radio today , Buster Olney I think, that the ball landed 225 ft from home plate

 

I don't know ifit was Olney but I heard/read the same thing...I have also like 3-4 times typed up a response and then just deleted because

I figured it wasn't worth it...but here goes...anyone that thinks a SS turning and running 15-20 steps to field a fly ball is routine has never played infield before...hel1 fielding a legit pop fly in the infield that warrants an infield fly is far from easy...I know they make it look that way but those pop ups that go up and seem to take forever to come down are a b1tch.

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As in, everyone needs to get over it. This is not a watershed moment nor a glaring reason why a one game play-off sucks, because one insanely bad call can ruin a team's season, and everything else I'm hearing. It was a call that, actually, was very reasonable. Perhaps not cut and dry absolutely correct, but certainly not the opposite either.

 

Actually, right or wrong call, the principle of the matter is still the same that one bad call or game can end the better team's year. Doesn't matter to me that this call was the right one or not, it could be for other teams. This game doesn't invalidate how it can affect a more deserving team's postseason.

 

That's not making excuses for that game (I said the Braves deserved to lose) or even to say that the call would have made the difference. This whole situation is just a reminder of how you can get screwed over. Believe me, most of the Braves fans and I are over it, but like I said from the beginning, the whole 1-game sudden death is a whole load of BS.

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So, in other words, ignore the bit actually written in the rule about the infielder being able to make the play routinely and, instead, insert an imaginary line that doesn't exist.

 

Sounds good.

 

You're seriously confused. "Routinely" refers to a ball in the infield, which is why it's an Infield Fly Rule. There's nothing routine about a shortstop booking it into left field to be called off by the left fielder. A ball, that in many MLB parks is a routine fly out to the outfielder.

 

There isn't an Outfield Fly Rule.

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You're seriously confused. "Routinely" refers to a ball in the infield, which is why it's an Infield Fly Rule. There's nothing routine about a shortstop booking it into left field to be called off by the left fielder. A ball, that in many MLB parks is a routine fly out to the outfielder.

 

There isn't an Outfield Fly Rule.

 

Then draw a line or shut the hell up. Because you're the one who apparently hasn't read the rule.

 

I saw the play. Dude didn't go charging out at full speed. He trotted out, mostly back pedaling until he and the LF got confused and both backed off. Sure, they were both standing in the grass. And that would mean they were both in the outfield. However, the rule is pretty clear to the effect that doesn't meant dick.

 

So, which one of us is confused?

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Then draw a line or shut the hell up. Because you're the one who apparently hasn't read the rule.

 

I saw the play. Dude didn't go charging out at full speed. He trotted out, mostly back pedaling until he and the LF got confused and both backed off. Sure, they were both standing in the grass. And that would mean they were both in the outfield. However, the rule is pretty clear to the effect that doesn't meant dick.

 

So, which one of us is confused?

 

Routine doesn't mean that because it looked easy it was routine. I know MLB ruled and backed their ump, but I expected that...still as a former infielder I can tell you that wasn't a routine play...and fwiw, where he caught the ball it was closer for him to throw it over the left field wall then back to home plate...just think about that and let it set in.

 

I also know that I won't change your mind and that is ok, but what bothers me most about the call is how late it was made...well that and that it was made by the OUTFIELD ump too.

 

as to the bolded you seem to be pretty much ignoring the immediate part of the rule...and if you don't think that it was all that late then it is safe to say you don't watch much baseball...when a batter pops a ball up in the infield almost as soon as it is off the bat the ump(s) have their hand up signaling IFR.

Edited by keggerz

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Routine doesn't mean that because it looked easy it was routine. I know MLB ruled and backed their ump, but I expected that...still as a former infielder I can tell you that wasn't a routine play...and fwiw, where he caught the ball it was closer for him to throw it over the left field wall then back to home plate...just think about that and let it set in.

 

I also know that I won't change your mind and that is ok, but what bothers me most about the call is how late it was made...well that and that it was made by the OUTFIELD ump too.

 

as to the bolded you seem to be pretty much ignoring the immediate part of the rule...and if you don't think that it was all that late then it is safe to say you don't watch much baseball...when a batter pops a ball up in the infield almost as soon as it is off the bat the ump(s) have their hand up signaling IFR.

 

1) I've given that the call came late. That said, you (or someone else) made a point to say that the runners had no idea what to do. But they did fine. They both safely advanced, so as far as the implications of making the call late, it doesn't appear to be much of a big deal. Now, if because of this late call, the runners were stuck at their bases or got caught in a run-down or something else, then this would very much be an issue.

 

2) The grass-line is 95 ft from the bump which is 60 ft from the plate. That means, if you take all of 6 full steps onto the grass in left at Turner field, you're as far from the plate as you are to the fence. So, I let it "set in" and have determined... BFD. Once again, if there's a line that defines where it's infield fly and where it's not. Then draw it on the field.

 

3) As far as you playing and me not. Great, and neither of us ever played at the MLB level, where one would expect plays to be a bit more routine than they are for players at any other level. That's why they're pros and we're not.

 

Regardless, the issue is not whether someone could see this as a bad call. I get that. It is certainly a call that one can absolutely question. My point, all along, was that it "really wasn't all that bad a call" That it's not as cut and dry as all you all seem to be making it. That's my wildly controversial and absolute statement that you guys seem hell-bent on fighting.

Edited by detlef

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I think if the ump was honest he would admit he screwed up. I have never seen an infield fly rule called this deep into the OF.

 

I think it was a bad call, but, once it was made, it can't be reversed. It is similar to calling a runner down by contact and blowing the whistle. It changes everything that comes after it.

 

Bad calls are a part of sports. Championship caliber teams overcome them and win. You won't hear the Braves players using the call as an excuse. Just the fans.

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My point, all along, was that it "really wasn't all that bad a call" That it's not as cut and dry as all you all seem to be making it. That's my wildly controversial and absolute statement that you guys seem hell-bent on fighting.

 

 

meh...I'm not fighting you on it, but you're most definitely wrong. It was a terrible call. :coffee:

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