Def. Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Now there are some caveats to that of course Looking at the list of past winners I can really only find 2 common themes in the last decade - 1. Be a QB 2. On a Winning Team A defensive player hasn't won since 86'. But really what's guys like JJ Watt ever accomplished anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 The team wins with you, the teams wins without you ... that is a clear argument that you aren't the most valuable player on that team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 The team wins with you, the teams wins without you ... that is a clear argument that you aren't the most valuable player on that team. False logic. They won without him simply means they are good enough ot win without him. It also may mean some other player on some other team is more valuable to their team than he is. But it says nothing about his value to that team. So if Brady isn't the MVP of the Pats who is? Player, you cannot use coach BB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 False logic. They won without him simply means they are good enough ot win without him. It also may mean some other player on some other team is more valuable to their team than he is. But it says nothing about his value to that team. So if Brady isn't the MVP of the Pats who is? Player, you cannot use coach BB. I'm sorry but the faulty logic is "yeah he is the MVP, but we don't need him to win". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gourdeau Posted November 1, 2016 Author Share Posted November 1, 2016 False logic. They won without him simply means they are good enough ot win without him. It also may mean some other player on some other team is more valuable to their team than he is. But it says nothing about his value to that team. So if Brady isn't the MVP of the Pats who is? Player, you cannot use coach BB. I agree Brady is absolutely the MVP for the Pats but of all the other players he isn't the most valuable to his team as other players are to theirs...right off the bat you can say that Big Ben is far and away more valuable to the steelers than Brady is to the pats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tylcook13 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) Agreed. When they can still win like that with the backup, then the backup's backup comes in and still wins; you have to ask, how valuable is he really? Edited November 2, 2016 by tylcook13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelredd9 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 In the 4 games without Brady this year, the Patriots averaged 20.25 points. In the 4 games with Brady this year, the Patriots averaged 34 points. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkraft896 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Anyone who thinks the Patriots are just as good without Brady as they are with Brady needs to check their vision. They played a completely different type of football without him. They played survival football, just get to the end of the game with more points than the other team. With Tom they play with a smack-ya-in-the-mouth, eff you mentality. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tylcook13 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) Nobody said they were just as good. They did win 3 out of 4 right? Do you think the Lions even have one win out of four without Stafford? Like somebody mentioned above, do the Raiders have anywhere near six wins without Carr? Do you not think the Falcons would suffer an even larger drop than 14.25 points a game without Julio or Ryan? Edit: 13.75 Edited November 2, 2016 by tylcook13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gourdeau Posted November 2, 2016 Author Share Posted November 2, 2016 In the 4 games without Brady this year, the Patriots averaged 20.25 points. In the 4 games with Brady this year, the Patriots averaged 34 points. You're missing the point.. it doesn't matter if they averaged 1 point a game, they still won 3 games with 2 different quarterbacks at the helm. The TEAM is capable without him, thus he isn't as valuable as other players are to their teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelredd9 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) You're missing the point.. it doesn't matter if they averaged 1 point a game, they still won 3 games with 2 different quarterbacks at the helm. The TEAM is capable without him, thus he isn't as valuable as other players are to their teams. So who is this magical player who deserves the MVP because his team is 4-12 without him, but 12-4 with him? Edited November 2, 2016 by michaelredd9 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Agreed. When they can still win like that with the backup, then the backup's backup comes in and still wins; you have to ask, how valuable is he really? No but Grits is saying Brady isn't even the MVP on his own team. That's equally as crazy as saying they are just as good with or without him. The team wins with you, the teams wins without you ... that is a clear argument that you aren't the most valuable player on that team. I think some are letting their hatred of Brady/Pats cloud their judgement. Especially those saying he isn't the Pats MVP or saying he shouldn't be in the conversation because the Pats won 2 out of 3 without him (notice their only loss is without Tom). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gourdeau Posted November 2, 2016 Author Share Posted November 2, 2016 No but Grits is saying Brady isn't even the MVP on his own team. That's equally as crazy as saying they are just as good with or without him. I think some are letting their hatred of Brady/Pats cloud their judgement. Especially those saying he isn't the Pats MVP or saying he shouldn't be in the conversation because the Pats won 2 out of 3 without him (notice their only loss is without Tom). I hate him to the core but absolutely believe he is their MVP and is to date the player of the year. Can we put him in the conversation? Sure.. but i think there are clearer options given the 3 wins.. its not about stats its about can your team survive and go on without you.. Lets look at it this way.. If Brady tears his ACL tommorrow do you for 1 second think the fans are gonna mail it in, call it a season and say we are done for ? Would the media take them out of their "top 10"..Now lets look at my team. Ben went down and when I and other fans that I communicate with regularly heard knee and possibly 6 to 8 weeks we absolutely said it was over for us, If Derek Carr goes down its reasonable to say its over For Oakland, Same with Julio for Atlanta or Matt Ryan etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelredd9 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 I think the people who don't think Brady should be able to win the MVP are getting too caught up in the semantics of "Most Valuable". They are taking it too literally and too far. Just because a player plays for a team that is really, really good doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to win the MVP. Just because a quarterback has a super crappy backup doesn't mean he should be more likely to win the MVP. The MVP should be the best player. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Def. Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 I hate him to the core but absolutely believe he is their MVP and is to date the player of the year. Can we put him in the conversation? Sure.. but i think there are clearer options given the 3 wins.. its not about stats its about can your team survive and go on without you.. Lets look at it this way.. If Brady tears his ACL tommorrow do you for 1 second think the fans are gonna mail it in, call it a season and say we are done for ? Would the media take them out of their "top 10"..Now lets look at my team. Ben went down and when I and other fans that I communicate with regularly heard knee and possibly 6 to 8 weeks we absolutely said it was over for us, If Derek Carr goes down its reasonable to say its over For Oakland, Same with Julio for Atlanta or Matt Ryan etc.. This conversation always goes in circles, cause essentially everyone is arguing a subjective term of "value". I do find it interesting that you penalize someone because their backup is better then another teams. Basically anyone on a team with depth is out of the conversation then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelredd9 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 The Patriots were 2-0 with Garoppolo and looked good. They were 1-1 with Brissett and looked bad (including getting shut out by Buffalo). So if Garoppolo gets hurt in practice tomorrow, can Brady then win the MVP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 The Patriots were 2-0 with Garoppolo and looked good. They were 1-1 with Brissett and looked bad (including getting shut out by Buffalo). So if Garoppolo gets hurt in practice tomorrow, can Brady then win the MVP? No he's not even the most valuable player on his team - Grits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboyz1 Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 So who is this magical player who deserves the MVP because his team is 4-12 without him, but 12-4 with him? Romo? Yes Romo should be considered for MVP. After all had he of not gotten injured the Cowboys, League and Cowboy fans worldwide would have been deprived of knowing how good the 4th round pick Dak Prescott is and how bright the future will be. Had he of not gotten injured and allowed Dak the extra reps in training camp he wouldn't have been able to start so well. We know what this team is without Romo 4-12 but now with Romo on the sidelines the team is 6-1. Now when he comes back and takes the team to the Superbowl we will all realize that in fact, Romo is the catalyst to Cowboys victory both on and off the field. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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