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Why Can't Some NFL Teams Do Well?


mikepr
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35 minutes ago, stevegrab said:

Somebody has to be the Cleveland Browns :bag:

 

 

Living in NE its tough to be a Browns fan and constantly being told "No one would blame you if you pick a new team" but part of me enjoys the never ending excitement about the draft, and then heartbreak when the wins and losses actually count :bag:

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39 minutes ago, jamesplante11 said:

 

Living in NE its tough to be a Browns fan and constantly being told "No one would blame you if you pick a new team" but part of me enjoys the never ending excitement about the draft, and then heartbreak when the wins and losses actually count :bag:

 

Hear, hear. I've been a Dolphins fan since 1984, and there is something satisfying about struggling through the difficult years with a team. When the good years come (it'll happen eventually), they are going to be SO sweet!

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it's definitely tough being a Browns fan...what really irks me are those facebook fans who are all

Rah! Rah! Rah!

all week, every week and if you say anything bad about the team, you're not a real fan...

I didn't know that "real fans" weren't allowed to voice their displeasure and that everything was all sunshine and puppies all the time.

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35 minutes ago, loaf said:

it's definitely tough being a Browns fan...what really irks me are those facebook fans who are all

Rah! Rah! Rah!

all week, every week and if you say anything bad about the team, you're not a real fan...

I didn't know that "real fans" weren't allowed to voice their displeasure and that everything was all sunshine and puppies all the time.

 

You should stay off FB :tinfoilhat:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:out:

 

 

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1 hour ago, ABearWithFurniture said:

 

When you live in Nebraska, people are just going to feel sorry for you...no matter who you root for.

lol.

 

I'm not sure what is worse, having a terrible team or having a team that each year people think will turn around and win the division.  Watching the Titans has been more painful each year as the expectations rise and the play remains the same.  

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I remember back in the early 80's the Bears weren't selling home games and were often blacked out locally. Eventually George Halas hired Mike Ditka and things began to change and in a few years they had their first Superbowl.

 

I mention this because maybe the best thing to do is not go to games and it might convince the owners fix things.

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14 hours ago, 1fastdoc said:

lol.

 

I'm not sure what is worse, having a terrible team or having a team that each year people think will turn around and win the division.  Watching the Titans has been more painful each year as the expectations rise and the play remains the same. 

 

I've been a Browns fan since the mid 80s after moving from Los Angeles to Cleveland. I enjoyed some great teams with high aspirations, including those 3 AFC title games with gut wrenching losses to the Broncos. I've also experienced some lean years after that and then Modell moving the team to Baltimore and the Browns return. Then we had a decent start, with impreovement winning seasons and even a playoff game in the first 5 years as an expansion team. That was hard to get through but happy to have my team back and returning to a decent status. Since then (2002 9-7 playoff year) we've had 1 winning season, and an average record of 4-12, with last year's miserable 1-15 and a potential winless season this year.

 

Anything is better than this, so if you think you need or want to return to being crappy in order to make the next step, be careful what you wish for. Titans have a very good QB, some good talented offensive skill players and some pieces on defense (Calais Campbell is a beast). Hopefully they can keep improving and that division is really wide open at this point.

 

As for mikepr's idea to not attend games and maybe that changes things, not likely in today's NFL. First off there are no more blackouts for lack of a sellout, NFL pretty much dropped that rule after years of letting teams tweak seating numbers to get around them. Plus TV revenue is far higher than 35 years ago, and the most significant portion of team revenue.

 

If you feel your team is really bad, and has hit rock bottom and needs some serious change, then it might help to have fans give up, but only if the vast majority of them do it. A few thousand more empty seats is not going to matter enough.

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11 minutes ago, mikepr said:

Obviously it's bad ownership but why would anyone not wanna improve things especially if a team has been bad for a long time?

 

Some teams like Cleveland has never been to a Superbowl, same with Detroit.

 

 

 

CLE and DET were perennial title contenders long before this magical SB thingy existed. Other teams haven't been in a SB in 40-50 years, does that make them better than CLE or DET?   Not saying CLE and DET have not been bad, but this "never been to a SB" thing is tired talk.

 

Vikings went to 4 SB in the 70, lost them all, last one was 40 years ago. Have they been good often since then?  Chiefs played in 2 in the 70s and won one, how often have they been good since then?

 

The Browns were in 3 AFC title games in 4 years in the 80s, they were pretty damn good back then. About 10 years later Modell took a crap on CLE and moved them to BAL, and the new Browns seem cursed since then.

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IMO it comes down to how well an organization evaluates talent (their own personnel and draft prospects) and then can coach that talent to it's fullest. The NE patriots organization is a perfect example. They don't play favorites meaning once a player shows signs of decline or age they move on, even early sometimes. The niners of the early 90's with Policy is another great example. Pittsburgh is another example. Hiring a good coach and keeping them seems to be another defining attribute to successful teams.  Of course in NE having the GOAT at QB solves a lot of issues but the scheme they play is very solid. They put players in positions to succeed and draft solid year after year. They have done so for years. Cleveland on the other hand drafts poorly and make very poor acquisitions. They took passed on Deshawn Watson who is lighting it up in Houston. They can't seem to pick a QB which is the key to any football team. The don't evaluate players well at all and keep players around like Josh Bong Hit instead of moving on. Every pick teams make either advance their team as a whole or hurt them for years. Makes no sense they can't pick a great player with all the high picks they have had over the years.

 

I recall the movie Miracle where the coach says, "I'm not looking for the best players, im looking for the right players". Sometimes a great player isn't the best for your football team at the time. A solid player that plays within the scheme you want often is the best guy to draft or acquire. NE's LB core has always been solid not because they have HOF players but player that do exactly what the scheme calls for. 

 

Rob Ryan is a perfect example of playing a scheme without the players to pull it off. He is an aggressive coach and only plays one style of defense and that's pressure. Doesn't matter that he doesn't have the secondary to pull it off. On the other hand, Wade Phillips takes a defense and evaluates his personnel and puts together a scheme they can play. Every team he goes to he has taken into the top of the league in defense by the second year. 

 

I always believe the draft is won or lost from the 3rd round on. If you can get solid guys who can become starters in the later rounds you build a good even great team. NE has consistently found players late in drafts that can play. Seattle is another team. IMO it all come down to your scouting department. Then coaching staff that can put a scheme together that brings out the best in your personnel. Teams that can do that are consistently competitive. AS a Cowboys fan I have noticed our drafts have been much better since JJ has given up control to his son and scouting department. Now if we can get these rookies healthy in our secondary and some experience we may be able to contend. I like what they have done over the years to build from the inside out and finding Dak in the 4th was a real gem.

 

Lastly, it comes down to money. Some teams spend what it take to get better, others do just enough to get by and skimp on players. I love that I have an owner that will always do what ever it take to get the player the scouts want and the team needs. I never doubt that he will do anything he can to improve the team. It doesn't always work out as we all know but he goes all out to make a difference. I respect that.

Edited by Cowboyz1
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c1,

 

I agree with a lot of what you say but take issue with a cople of your points on the Browns.

 

First Gordon, they have nothing to gain by cutting/releasing, he's an asset and if he's reinstated may provide some value to the team. Its funny to read a Cowboys Super Fan commenting on a team keeping problem players on their team. You guys collect them like candy.

 

Watson - yes the Browns didn't draft him, a bunch of other good players over the years in the draft, but if they had those players may not have developed the same. Why do fans not understand that? You think Watson would be having that success on the Browns?  People whined back when the Browns didn't draft Roethlisberger, how great he was and how he led the Steerls to SB victories. I doubt he has a fraction of that succes if the Browns draft him, they didn't have a stout defense, good OL and running game to surround him.

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Come on Steve, Josh is a waste has no value to anyone because no one trusts him anymore. How can you? Why would you even consider trusting him to be there week in and week out. Has little to no trade value at all. Remember he's not a young rookie who has to learn. He's a vet that hasn't or won't do the right thing for himself or his team. Football simply isn't all that important to him.

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27 minutes ago, Cowboyz1 said:

Come on Steve, Josh is a waste has no value to anyone because no one trusts him anymore. How can you? Why would you even consider trusting him to be there week in and week out. Has little to no trade value at all. Remember he's not a young rookie who has to learn. He's a vet that hasn't or won't do the right thing for himself or his team. Football simply isn't all that important to him.

 

I don't disagree, he's probably worthless even if he is reinstated. But what is gained by the Browns cutting him (since you think that is a sign of bad team management). He isn't on the roster, he doesn't count against the salary cap. Only benefit to being rid of him is when he is discussed it won't say "Cleveland Brown WR...", instead "former CLE WR".

 

I wish they'd cut him so the distraction is gone, but from the team's standpoint I can understand why they haven't done it. I certainly don't think its worth mentioning in the "worst decisions by Browns" kind of discussion, especially with draft busts like Gilbert & Manziel, the constant turnover in coach/FO, and Haslam's general ineptitude as an owner.

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I am tired of hearing about how good players are that the Browns passed on. A players success is relative. It takes more than 1 piece to make a player great. Watson, Wentz, Bridgewater, Carr, etc would not be able to play at their current level in Cleveland. You have to have some kind of talent around a player to help him succeed, and it could be in the form of players, coaches, schemes, etc.

 

For example, Tom Brady gets to pick 10 lucky huddlers to line up on offense with him and He gets to pick his coaching staff from any high school in the US. There's no way he puts up the numbers he has. He has talent, but it takes the team around him to make him who he is.

 

2 hours ago, heehawks said:

Coaching, coaching, coaching....and an elite QB. Some franchises never get either, let alone both. 

 

How elite was Brad Johnson for TB

Trent Dilfer or Kerry Collins in 2001?

Jake Delhomme

Rex Grossman

Colin Kaepernick

 

c1, how can you even bring up Josh Gordon when your star running back is all over the news for domestic violence. Gordon had a drug problem and he accepted his suspensions.

 

My last .02, here is a list of QBs drafted after the first round...meaning all teams passed on them

Tom Brady

Russel Wilson

Drew Brees

Kurt Warner

Brett Farve

Steve Young

Joe Montana

Joe Theisman

Roger Staubach

Johnny Unitas

Bart Starr

 

Great teams are build from great organizations, its a top down approach that takes all parts to be great.

 

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