forever in debt to mo lewis Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 11 hours ago, Gourdeau said: I've watched every snap of every game this year (including being at the game sunday) and the last 10 years for that matter.. Here is my perspective. 1st off its the AB and Bell show, on avg there is anywhere from 25 to 35 pass attempts for Ben, hes gonna target Brown 12-15 times, Bell around 5-10 and the rest is spread around... between Bryant and Juju the targets are pretty close, but Juju has made the most of them. JUJU is a legit talent also so he's not going away in that passing game. So the reality Bryant is and never was going to see more than 5-8 targets a game, not sure what his expectations were. I was there live and had a specific goal in mind to watch him on and off the field to see how he engaged especially off the field... he was on the field for 36 of 69 snaps, and most of those were running plays. He was actually off the field for around 70% of the 3 WR sets and was off the field for most red zone opportunities also. The return of Eli Rogers to the slot had a lot to do with it which means Juju returns to the outside and I believe ultimately Bryant's attitude vs Juju's is why Bryant was basically the 4th wr and I think it's going to continue.. Bryant was completely disengaged on the sideline and I don't see them trading him. He's a great depth piece to have on the cheap. Now having said all this, my personal opinion and wish is that they would be more creative with how they use him but the reality is Ben is locked into AB. 4 of his 5 picks vs Jax were AB targets and AB had 19 targets overall that game. Ben forces it there no matter how bad hes covered. So far anything to Bryant has been a deep go route, ( Ben has never been an accurate deep baller) and its been a quick throw latterally.and hope he breaks the tackle. I hate Haley as an OC, Bryant should be used a lot more in slants and comeback routes but it's not happening. He's their biggest WR and yet he has 4 red zone targets.. So there is coaching issues also, don't think it's any secret that Haley isn't the most decorated or respected OC. good stuff...great feedback...the kind I was looking for and thanks for confirming what I suspected...lack of creativity using Bryant....too much deep ball/quick screen stuff.....not enough working downfield/middle of the field...deep comebacks...and stuff like that.....you start hitting him on stuff like that and boom he can sell a double move and have 5-8 lengths on a db..... that being said...juju got dropped last week and I intend on spending a lot of my WW money on him....might be foolish if somehow the steelers and Bryant hash things out it would muddle things even more...but like you said.....with AB and bell around there isn't a lot to go around...... "4 of his 5 picks vs Jax were AB targets"......that right there is prob a source of bryants frustration....like I said...im sure a lot of bryants problems are rooted in him wanting to showcase his skills to get paid...at the same time I think he likes being a steeler and wants to win there....I think he sees things like that and sees them kicking 5 fgs on sunday and just wants to help them do better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 6 hours ago, Gourdeau said: I had some time.. we are just driving back home in a 15 pass van with 9 dudes, we drove 20 hours to Pittsburgh Friday. Spent the weekend there then went to philly for the monday night game ( insane fans btw). Celebrated our 10 year Local league anniversary in style. Bucket list trip that's pretty sweet...im a pats fan and have been to new Orleans and tampa this year....had great time both times as well....even sat next to Brandon merriweathers mother at the tampa game...I guess her BF is bucs season ticket holder...she told us her heart was rooting for the patriots though lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesplante11 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 5 hours ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said: good stuff...great feedback...the kind I was looking for and thanks for confirming what I suspected...lack of creativity using Bryant....too much deep ball/quick screen stuff.....not enough working downfield/middle of the field...deep comebacks...and stuff like that.....you start hitting him on stuff like that and boom he can sell a double move and have 5-8 lengths on a db..... that being said...juju got dropped last week and I intend on spending a lot of my WW money on him....might be foolish if somehow the steelers and Bryant hash things out it would muddle things even more...but like you said.....with AB and bell around there isn't a lot to go around...... "4 of his 5 picks vs Jax were AB targets"......that right there is prob a source of bryants frustration....like I said...im sure a lot of bryants problems are rooted in him wanting to showcase his skills to get paid...at the same time I think he likes being a steeler and wants to win there....I think he sees things like that and sees them kicking 5 fgs on sunday and just wants to help them do better huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, jamesplante11 said: huh? dude...do me a favor...go away....you are one of those "you cant be right" type of guys.....its no surprise.....you are a browns fan and don't know what winning is like the guy basically confirmed to me what I suspected...there was a lack of diversity in bryants targets/routes everything I said makes sense to me....im glad it doesn't to you don't respond...just go away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesplante11 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 1 hour ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said: dude...do me a favor...go away....you are one of those "you cant be right" type of guys.....its no surprise.....you are a browns fan and don't know what winning is like the guy basically confirmed to me what I suspected...there was a lack of diversity in bryants targets/routes everything I said makes sense to me....im glad it doesn't to you don't respond...just go away I would rather stand by my team while they are losing than be a bandwagon fan. Contrary to popular belief everything you said made some sort of since to me. I just found it ludicrous that out off all of Gourdeau's post you got "I knew it, they just aren't using him correctly" Pittsburgh doesn't use any of their 2nd WR correctly. Ben has 3 reads "AB has 4 people on him, Bell tripped coming out of the backfield, oh well might as well wing it" Maybe you should read Gourdeau's post again. I am in no way saying you are wrong, could Pittsburgh be more creative with Bryant, yes and I can guarantee that I am far from always right nor do I try to be. Either way Bryant only saw 30% of 3 WR sets, and Bryant's attitude and disengagement are causing JuJu to see the more meaningful snaps. Right now the 3rd WR to own in Pittsburgh is JuJu he is making the most out of the snaps he gets. If you have room to stash Bryant I would, but right now I would roster JuJu over Bryant 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, jamesplante11 said: I would rather stand by my team while they are losing than be a bandwagon fan. Contrary to popular belief everything you said made some sort of since to me. I just found it ludicrous that out off all of Gourdeau's post you got "I knew it, they just aren't using him correctly" Pittsburgh doesn't use any of their 2nd WR correctly. Ben has 3 reads "AB has 4 people on him, Bell tripped coming out of the backfield, oh well might as well wing it" Maybe you should read Gourdeau's post again. I am in no way saying you are wrong, could Pittsburgh be more creative with Bryant, yes and I can guarantee that I am far from always right nor do I try to be. Either way Bryant only saw 30% of 3 WR sets, and Bryant's attitude and disengagement are causing JuJu to see the more meaningful snaps. Right now the 3rd WR to own in Pittsburgh is JuJu he is making the most out of the snaps he gets. If you have room to stash Bryant I would, but right now I would roster JuJu over Bryant how could I not gather that he was somewhat confirming my point when he says this "Now having said all this, my personal opinion and wish is that they would be more creative with how they use him but the reality is Ben is locked into AB. 4 of his 5 picks vs Jax were AB targets and AB had 19 targets overall that game. Ben forces it there no matter how bad hes covered. So far anything to Bryant has been a deep go route, ( Ben has never been an accurate deep baller) and its been a quick throw latterally.and hope he breaks the tackle. I hate Haley as an OC, Bryant should be used a lot more in slants and comeback routes but it's not happening. He's their biggest WR and yet he has 4 red zone targets.. So there is coaching issues also, don't think it's any secret that Haley isn't the most decorated or respected OC. " that's about exactly what I was saying I already know everyone thinks he has a poor attitude.....I get the whole "its not always the most talented who gets the promotion"...believe me..ive seen it at work...ive seen coworkers get passed up fo big promotions because they are know-it-alls that they think they can do whatever they want when they want....even though they knew the job already and could do it better than those that were hired.....but this is football.....Bryant did everything that was asked of him in the offseason...came in and practiced when he was cleared to.....and was put on the depth chart where he was the way some of you are talking its as if they are holding some grudge against him for tweeting about juju when he got drafted....when he did that he was basically saying "guys I'm coming into camp in the best shape and they are going to want me and need me...so they aren't drafting him to replace me...I know the shape I'm in and what I can do" btw ben had some positive things to say if you go check PFT....that doesn't mean or guarantee anything.....but I'm willing to bet they get this sorted out......quite frankly if Bryant is humming along this offense is downright scary and they are going to need him....and that's what hes saying.....when they are throwing to AB 19 times and getting picked off 4 times and losing to jax that aint gonna cut it....5fgs against cincy aint gonna cut it when its time to play the pats or a big boy team.......that's really all martavis is trying to say IMO Edited October 25, 2017 by forever in debt to mo lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 My take away from all this is people can hope and want things to change, but it isn't likely and Bryant's bad attitude and JuJu's popularity with coaches will mean he continues to do more while Bryant continues to do less. I doubt Bryant is suddenly going to convince Ben or the coaches they're dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 6 minutes ago, stevegrab said: My take away from all this is people can hope and want things to change, but it isn't likely and Bryant's bad attitude and JuJu's popularity with coaches will mean he continues to do more while Bryant continues to do less. I doubt Bryant is suddenly going to convince Ben or the coaches they're dumb. you are dumb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesplante11 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said: you are dumb Well things changed boss, Bryant was just demoted to the scout team, where he can practice as hard as he wants 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said: you are dumb So you think Bryant is going to convince the team they are stupid and use him the right way. Good luck with that strategy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, jamesplante11 said: Well things changed boss, Bryant was just demoted to the scout team, where he can practice as hard as he wants and expect to be inactive Sunday But we're Browns fans so we're dumb... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, stevegrab said: So you think Bryant is going to convince the team they are stupid and use him the right way. Good luck with that strategy. here in this thread you have a steelers fan saying theyve been completely unimaginative with bryant and basically running him on the same two type of players all year and hes just been missing a few deep balls....but you want to act like theres no way it can improve do you think the patriots defensive coaches just sat there after 4 games and said "well we suck..nothing we can do..lets not try to improve"? lol i dunno man...i swear...there must be something in the water in cleveland .......do you think this team is better with bryant making plays with AB and bell......or with bryant out of the picture and juju smith in the lineup? i can tell you who just about everyone thinks is the more dangerous team....but im sure you would disagree ben and the offense have struggled at times....they need to find ways to improve Edited October 25, 2017 by forever in debt to mo lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, stevegrab said: and expect to be inactive Sunday But we're Browns fans so we're dumb... its a discipline move....the steelers really had no choice...theyve already been taking heat about letting this guy run his mouth and running a loose ship.....they will need him....this doesnt suprise anyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesplante11 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 A couple of point to make 1) They have been using Bryant the same way since 2014...that’s not on him it’s on coaching I agree. 2) It wouldn’t matter if there’s something in the water in Cleveland because I’m from New England 3) Might wanna retract that bet, because as previously stated Bryant is now on the practice squad and expected to be inactive Sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 Just now, jamesplante11 said: A couple of point to make 1) They have been using Bryant the same way since 2014...that’s not on him it’s on coaching I agree. 2) It wouldn’t matter if there’s something in the water in Cleveland because I’m from New England 3) Might wanna retract that bet, because as previously stated Bryant is now on the practice squad and expected to be inactive Sunday. id still be willing to make that bet starting when hes active again....anyday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 so lemme guess...when they say this http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/10/25/ben-roethlisberger-we-need-to-get-the-ball-to-martavis-bryant/ they are just blowing smoke up everyones butt? this demotion is expected...they take heat all the time for running a loose ship and they were forced into this....he went a bit too far too much with this bryant did...no question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 in all honesty....this demotion should work out for the steelers and bryant....it gives the steelers a chance to gauge his commitment....tomlin said they are gonna hash/talk this out...and this gives them a chance to see how he responds.....and that should give them an idea of what they are working with going forward in regards to bryants mental state do you guys think any unit, especially one that has struggled, stops looking for ways to improve? do you guys think that tomlin and ben are blowing smoke up our asses in regards to them wanting to get bryant going? do you guys think the steelers would have stood behind bryant to this point if they didnt believe in him and his talent/ability? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 31 minutes ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said: here in this thread you have a steelers fan saying theyve been completely unimaginative with bryant and basically running him on the same two type of players all year and hes just been missing a few deep balls....but you want to act like theres no way it can improve do you think the patriots defensive coaches just sat there after 4 games and said "well we suck..nothing we can do..lets not try to improve"? lol i dunno man...i swear...there must be something in the water in cleveland .......do you think this team is better with bryant making plays with AB and bell......or with bryant out of the picture and juju smith in the lineup? i can tell you who just about everyone thinks is the more dangerous team....but im sure you would disagree ben and the offense have struggled at times....they need to find ways to improve I think you are WISHING things will change and HOPING they use him different, but don't see any info provided that indicates things will change for the better for Bryant, in fact all indications are the opposite (demotion, inactive, more targets for JuJu, etc.) Doesn't matter who you or I think makes them better, matters what the coaches think, which seems to be "Bryant gets used like this (or less)". I also don't live in Cleveland I live in suburban Akron about 30 miles away we have our own water sources. But keep attacking people for what team they're a fan of, instead of sticking to the topic at hand. So Ben says they need to get him more involved, that's more than you or other fans saying it, but still its not action from the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, stevegrab said: I think you are WISHING things will change and HOPING they use him different, but don't see any info provided that indicates things will change for the better for Bryant, in fact all indications are the opposite (demotion, inactive, more targets for JuJu, etc.) Doesn't matter who you or I think makes them better, matters what the coaches think, which seems to be "Bryant gets used like this (or less)". I also don't live in Cleveland I live in suburban Akron about 30 miles away we have our own water sources. But keep attacking people for what team they're a fan of, instead of sticking to the topic at hand. So Ben says they need to get him more involved, that's more than you or other fans saying it, but still its not action from the team. ill ask you again you think the patriots defensive coaches said "fugg it man we cant get any better..no use in trying...we are what we are...gave it our best shot"??? of course i cant provide info on the future.... ben said they need to get more involved...tomlin said it and said they are gonna handle this....they lyin? can you provide info that they are lying? i can play that game too everything hasnt happened, or is unprecedented, till it happens they need bryant...they didnt stand by him through all of this...and bring him into camp and put him on the depth chart just so they dress him down in front of everyone and sabotage him in public Edited October 25, 2017 by forever in debt to mo lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boltnlava Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 mo..you've been here a long time...when you are proved wrong (atm) at least admit it. Saying LATER he'll be a star does not fix what transpired before. IMHO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesplante11 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 There are really two reasons I’m still going with this...well 3 1) A diehard Steelers fan gave you an amazing breakdown that included; - Bryant is mostly on the field for run plays -Pittsburgh targets Brown or Bell on 20-25 plays out of a possible 35 plays. In that statement he also says JuJu and Bryant will split those targets so there’s no real expectation past 5-6 targets per game -Bryant’s attitude cost him his spot on the depth chart to JuJu -Rodgers coming back bumped him to 4th in line because Rodgers is taking snaps as the WR2 -Haley, who has been the Pitt OC since 2012, isn’t the most prolific OC to have, and the only thing he uses Bryant for is a fly route and a screen You completely ignored the first two points to say “I knew I was right, they are using him wrong” When the reality of it is that is exactly how they have used him his entire career. So why expect change now...Same OC, same QB, same supporting cast, same usage. The only thing new is he’s become a distraction and got demoted bc of it. 2) Just because I’m a Browns fan doesn’t make me un-intelligent, nor does it mean I have zero knowledge when it comes to talking football. Your asking about a hate division rival, the Browns play twice a year. I’ve probably watched more Steelers games (with Bryant) than you. The “your a Browns fan what do you know” or “of course a Browns fan says that, they are used to losing” are redundant ideologies to have. If anything I become more invested in football because what the hell, we aren’t winning so might as well root for good football elsewhere. I will tell you this tho, I’m loyal to my team year in, year out regardless of win loss. 3) Your a Patriots fan, I live in Maine, my entire family, friends, everyone, are Patriots fans and man do I love pissing you guys off about football. PS- It’s not always the Refs or Tom Brady’s fault. There’s an entire organization in NE, sometimes it’s Brady, sometimes it’s Patricia, sometimes it’s the defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 5 minutes ago, stevegrab said: I think you are WISHING things will change and HOPING they use him different, but don't see any info provided that indicates things will change for the better for Bryant, in fact all indications are the opposite (demotion, inactive, more targets for JuJu, etc.) Doesn't matter who you or I think makes them better, matters what the coaches think, which seems to be "Bryant gets used like this (or less)". I also don't live in Cleveland I live in suburban Akron about 30 miles away we have our own water sources. But keep attacking people for what team they're a fan of, instead of sticking to the topic at hand. So Ben says they need to get him more involved, that's more than you or other fans saying it, but still its not action from the team. have you ever made an observation on your own or does everything you know come from something youve read? sorry i guess nothing can happen unless you get statements from the team telling you they are going to happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boltnlava Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 What i read was he was demoted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesplante11 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said: have you ever made an observation on your own or does everything you know come from something youve read? sorry i guess nothing can happen unless you get statements from the team telling you they are going to happen No ones questioning your observations and I think everyone has been in agreement that they could use Bryant a little better, but the writings on the wall that history will most likely repeat itself. For Bryant’s sake I hope not, but the future outlook looks bleak Edited October 25, 2017 by jamesplante11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gourdeau Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 I'd still hold onto Bryant if you have the room. I haven't read everything on here but some interesting points were brought up by ESPN Steelers insider Jeremey Fowler.. Bryant has missed 20 games in 2 seasons prior to this year.. he's not close to 100 acclimated to the offense which is where I believe Tomlin is heading with the comments about Bryant being reminded by the staff that it's going to be a process getting him more involved. I don't make too much out of the demotion, this is a "keep your mouth shut" move, but come crunch time Bryant is going to be so important down the stretch vs New England and into the playoffs.. lets also not forget bell and his injury issues, hes on track for close to 450 , yes 450 touches... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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