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Martavis Bryant rest of season


michaelredd9
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It seems a low point for Martavis.  But no matter how much the Rooneys or Tomlin would like to make an real example of him, teams don't like to lose their investment.  Teams don't cut off their nose to spite the face.  The squeaky wheel does get the grease.  They broke him down this week and they will now will build him up.  Pick your proverb.  He will see a lot of single coverage with the emergence of JuJu.  Teams generally use 3 wide receivers so he isn't competing for snaps.  Ben will make it a point to throw to Martavis to keep him content.  And JuJu is a rookie so they can ignore him a bit without any drama.  I think Martavis will see 6-8 targets the rest of the season.  And he is a talented deep threat without doubt.

 

Edited by michaelredd9
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Hes back to running with the first team again this week after being demoted to the practice squad / scout team.

Tomlin had to show baby boy who the boss was, so maybe this sets him straight.

He was available in one of my leagues so I grabbed him for the high ceiling at least.

Even Josh Gordon was gone, so what the hey.

Edited by typhus
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Pittsburgh should be able to take control of this game whenever they want...so ya..i think they will try to get him going.....I think even if they are up 3 tds they will take a couple of deep shots with him at worst....ill be starting him...its risky but I'm going to cross my fingers.......its been my belief that if they are going to beat the patriots and win the afc they need him in the thick of things.....I was actually kind of hoping they moved him as I have juju also...and it would have clarified things......as of right now we can just guess but this situation can get real muddled and have juju/martavis value killed....I cant afford for them to figure this thing out now or over the next few weeks....I need one of them to step up or the other one to step down now

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17 minutes ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said:

 

I need one of them to step up or the other one to step down now

 

 

That is difficult quandary.  Antonio Bryant and Le'Veon Bell will get theirs.  Can the Steelers also support Martavis and JuJu fantasywise?  I think Martavis might get his stats at the expense of JuJu.  It will take a concerted effort by Ben to trust his offensive line and take the extra time needed for Martavis to complete his routes.  With how good JuJu has been, it might not happen.  And it will be very difficult for the Steelers to legitimately have 4 viable fantasy receivers/running backs.

 

Edited by michaelredd9
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I'm just in a really weird spot with Bryant...ive always been in love with the talent...spent a 5th on him....but I was kind of hoping he would get shipped out...I have this feeling that Bryant and juju are going to kill each others value...I was really hoping Bryant would get sent to buffalo or Chicago or something and just make things easy

 

I picked up juju before week 8, as he was just dropped off a roster the previous week, and spent  a good portion of my waiver wire budget ....needed to cover my rear end...as I believe that "#2" spot in pitt is a great place for potential production....played juju and he killed as did my team....ive scored 154, 160 and 179 the last 3 weeks...my team is catching fire....just cant really afford to throw him out there and have a dud

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3 minutes ago, michaelredd9 said:

 

That is difficult quandary.  Antonio Bryant and Le'Veon Bell will get theirs.  Can the Steelers also support Martavis and JuJu fantasywise?  I think Martavis might get his stats at the expense of JuJu.  It will take a concerted effort by Ben to trust his offensive line and take the extra time needed for Martavis to complete his routes.  With how good JuJu has been, it might not happen.  And it will be very difficult for the Steelers to legitimately have 4 viable fantasy receivers/running backs.

 

I hope you are right

 

and I think a lot of the routes they are having martavis run, when targeting him, are the problem...I think he can be a complete guy and run everything...they seem to act like hes only good at catching quick hitters or bombs........I know sometimes coverage dictates routes....but take a look at the TD he caught this year against Minnesota....alexander gave him about a 10 yard cushion, obviously respecting his ability to get over the top, and Bryant came off the ball and alexander immediately took backwards steps......Bryant broke into a slant and by the time alexander arrived to meet him Bryant already had that think tucked and was running away from him....

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Bryant is not going to see more than 5 or 6 max unless JUJU or Bell gets hurt. Simple Math. As stated in a previous thread, Ben has 25-35 throws a game.. 12-15 targets for AB, 10 for Bell, that leaves max 13 targets for Juju Bryant rogers James .. id put Juju at minimum 6.. Juju just fits the scheme better as a chain mover, more short route possession type than Bryant. I just don't see it. Im hopefull but with how effective the run is I just dont see enough food to feed them all 

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37 minutes ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said:

 

I have this feeling that Bryant and juju are going to kill each others value.

 

 

That could happen.  And a deep threat like Bryant needs for Ben's first reads to be covered for him to wait for the deep pass.  With Antonio always getting double covered, it isn't often that he and JuJu will be double covered.  Ben will have to make an effort to target Martavis.  Ben does like to throw the deep ball.  And Martavis will often be single covered.  

Edited by michaelredd9
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11 minutes ago, Gourdeau said:

Bryant is not going to see more than 5 or 6 max unless JUJU or Bell gets hurt. Simple Math. As stated in a previous thread, Ben has 25-35 throws a game.. 12-15 targets for AB, 10 for Bell, that leaves max 13 targets for Juju Bryant rogers James .. id put Juju at minimum 6.. Juju just fits the scheme better as a chain mover, more short route possession type than Bryant. I just don't see it. Im hopefull but with how effective the run is I just dont see enough food to feed them all 

 

It's true that is will be difficult for Martavis to get enough targets.  I think we know that Antonio and Le'Veon won't get squeezed out.  But JuJu could get squeezed out by Martavis.  With 4 good options, Ben can throw to anyone he chooses.  It is surprising that the Steelers's offense hasn't been better than it has been this season.  I expect they will do better.  Fantasywise, I have Martavis rated equally to JuJu because Ben can choose to who he will throw.

 

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14 minutes ago, michaelredd9 said:

 

It's true that is will be difficult for Martavis to get enough targets.  I think we know that Antonio and Le'Veon won't get squeezed out.  But JuJu could get squeezed out by Martavis.  With 4 good options, Ben can throw to anyone he chooses.  It is surprising that the Steelers's offense hasn't been better than it has been this season.  I expect they will do better.  Fantasywise, I have Martavis rated equally to JuJu because Ben can choose to who he will throw.

 

 

He can throw to anybody he chooses but as several here have said that means Ben needs lots of time for Bryant to get open on long routes, and for all the other guys to be covered. With the addition of JuJu on shorter routes that is less likely. I'm not sure that PIT is suddenly going to make extra special effort to get Bryant involved, maybe when the games out of control they can risk a few more deep balls.

 

Of course its also possible that the Steelers focus on running the ball and beat the Colts that way. Its not like they're going to need to score 30+ points to win. Was checking stats and IND is 32nd in total yards and passing yards allowed, but only 7th in rushing yards allowed. That means worse against the pass than run, but bad enough at both to be beaten either way.

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19 minutes ago, stevegrab said:

 

He can throw to anybody he chooses but as several here have said that means Ben needs lots of time for Bryant to get open on long routes, and for all the other guys to be covered. With the addition of JuJu on shorter routes that is less likely. I'm not sure that PIT is suddenly going to make extra special effort to get Bryant involved, maybe when the games out of control they can risk a few more deep balls.

 

Of course its also possible that the Steelers focus on running the ball and beat the Colts that way. Its not like they're going to need to score 30+ points to win. Was checking stats and IND is 32nd in total yards and passing yards allowed, but only 7th in rushing yards allowed. That means worse against the pass than run, but bad enough at both to be beaten either way.

They have one of the best olines in the league, time isn't really a concern.. its just not their gameplan to throw deep very often and Ben has never really been an accurate deep ball guy. They like to grind it out, kill that clock, long possessions. I do believe that Bryant is very capable of being more than a deep threat but i just think too much damage has been done in the locker room for Ben to all of sudden start forcing Bryant the ball over juju. Its gonna be AB first look, Juju 2nd look Bell then Bryant, if hes even on the field in a 2wr set which i doubt at this point if he does blow up its gonna be this week. Dome, vs horrible secondary off a bye week.. Then I say sell high 

Edited by Gourdeau
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19 minutes ago, stevegrab said:

 

He can throw to anybody he chooses but as several here have said that means Ben needs lots of time for Bryant to get open on long routes, and for all the other guys to be covered. With the addition of JuJu on shorter routes that is less likely. I'm not sure that PIT is suddenly going to make extra special effort to get Bryant involved, maybe when the games out of control they can risk a few more deep balls.

 

Of course its also possible that the Steelers focus on running the ball and beat the Colts that way. Its not like they're going to need to score 30+ points to win. Was checking stats and IND is 32nd in total yards and passing yards allowed, but only 7th in rushing yards allowed. That means worse against the pass than run, but bad enough at both to be beaten either way.

sure...I can agree....they can probably go into indy and win any way they want to.....but that's not big picture....that's small picture

 

big picture says they need to get the offense going for when its time to play the big boys

 

you take a game against the bears in which they lost...now I think the bears have a very solid, underrated, defense.....but the steelers put up only 17 points there......they got pasted by jax and been threw what? 5 picks? how about a game against cincy where they scored 29 points on 5 fgs?....they played KC and scored 17 offensive points.......

 

when it comes time to play the patriots...or in the playoffs(which may include the patriots again) ....you are going to need better output....I think the steelers defense is good...but I don't think its THAT good to where they can just run the ball 30x and play top notch defense and win a superbowl.....

 

they are going to need the offense firing to make that kind of run...this is an offense that has done some sputtering.....this would be a good game for them to get some things ironed out and scheme some things up......I would agree in little picture terms they can prob do whatever they want.......I know that whole "one game at a time" cliché...but pitt has to start thinking bigger and getting this offense clicking......having bell, brown, ben and martavis all together is something they've all been dreaming about it...all the way down to the fans.....but it hasn't been clicking...they need it to be

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as an add on...even the Detroit game......till that long play to juju the offense was not producing a lot of points.....they won 20-15 on a 90+yard td ......those don't happen frequently

 

sure the numbers for AB and bell look great on fantasy rosters....but overall the offensive point production hasn't been too satisfactory for the real life steelers

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When you look the steelers schedule for the first 8 weeks you have to look at how solid those defenses are vs the pass.  5 of those 8 teams ranked in the top 10 vs the pass ( Jax #1 Balt #10 Cincy #4 Chi #9 Minny #5) Detroit and Cleveland and KC all road games, historically the steelers under Tomlin are horrid on the road. KC is an awful place to go play. While i agree the offense has been lack luster, the schedule is partially at play there. Having said that, given their favorable 2nd half schedule i expect the passing to come into shape and believe they will spell Bell a lot more as the playoff picture begins to shape itsself. I'll be disappointed with anything less than 6 wins.

 

They Get

 

Cleveland ( win) Greenbay (win) Tennessee (iffy) Baltimore (win) and NE (iffy) at home 

 

Indy (win) Houston (win) Cinncy (iffy) on the road.

 

The game vs New england should be the decider for 1st and 2nd seed Pats have a brutal schedule with 6 of 8 games on the road. They too have not been dominant. Im banking on a pats loss to the raiders

 

The #1 priority for Pittsburgh is to get top seed.

Edited by Gourdeau
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The AFC is such a joke right now, if you look at the remaining schedules no one's sticks out more than Pittsburgh's and New Englands.  Both of those team's are going straight to the AFC championship.  

 

ON TOPIC:  Bryant hasn't looked as good all year as JuJu did last game

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3 hours ago, kdko said:

The AFC is such a joke right now, if you look at the remaining schedules no one's sticks out more than Pittsburgh's and New Englands.  Both of those team's are going straight to the AFC championship.  

 

ON TOPIC:  Bryant hasn't looked as good all year as JuJu did last game

 

Correct on both points 100% it's just a matter of where the game is gonna be played. 

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23 minutes ago, kdko said:

 

Foxborough probably :rant:

 

I wouldn't be surprised, I've been disappointed every year since Tomlin got there( minus 2005 SB43) other than that it's been complete failure to meet expectations considering the talent. So I totally wouldn't be shocked to see them lose 3 of 8 and hand NE the home field. NE has a way of having things handed to them. ( Not bitter I swear ;)

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8 hours ago, Gourdeau said:

 

Correct on both points 100% it's just a matter of where the game is gonna be played. 

that was my point though.....when you are talking jax, kc, minn, Detroit you are talking playoff caliber teams.....when ur talking Baltimore defense they are prob a playoff caliber unit or close...same with the bears........so when ur telling me "oh well they had a tough schedule the first half of the year as far as defenses they've faced" it doesn't take away from the fact that they haven't been able to produce tds...they got worked by jax and beaten by the bears...and barely beat Detroit....

 

this offense has a hall of fame qb(granted he may be close to being done)...a HOF elite wideout and prob a HOF elite back....and then they have a freak like Bryant and a kid like juju.......I know its the nfl and its tough...but they should have been able to produce a bit better........like I said pitts defense is good....but its not "were gonna run the ball 30+x and play defense and win the superbowl" good....when it comes playoff time this pitt offense is going to have to step it up whether they are at home or not

 

I disagree with both you and kd about Bryant not looking as good this year...I think he looks, at least, just as quick and explosive....I think its more of a ben and a better usage problem....as many have noted ben has just missed him a few times...if they connect there is probably no issue or no one saying he doesn't look the same.......I was looking at a breakdown yesterday on a steelers fan website....before this season Bryant had seen 171 total targets in the nfl...48 percent of those targets were either go route/fades or quick screens....now I don't have a breakdown for this year but I would imagine its probably close to similar......meaning they are pretty predictable with his usage

 

again ...go take a look at the td he scored on mackensie alexander in week 3 I think it is.....they need more variety in his routes when they get him the ball.....go youtube that td...it was vintage Bryant and he looked as fast as he ever has

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3 hours ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said:

that was my point though.....when you are talking jax, kc, minn, Detroit you are talking playoff caliber teams.....when ur talking Baltimore defense they are prob a playoff caliber unit or close...same with the bears........so when ur telling me "oh well they had a tough schedule the first half of the year as far as defenses they've faced" it doesn't take away from the fact that they haven't been able to produce tds...they got worked by jax and beaten by the bears...and barely beat Detroit....

 

this offense has a hall of fame qb(granted he may be close to being done)...a HOF elite wideout and prob a HOF elite back....and then they have a freak like Bryant and a kid like juju.......I know its the nfl and its tough...but they should have been able to produce a bit better........like I said pitts defense is good....but its not "were gonna run the ball 30+x and play defense and win the superbowl" good....when it comes playoff time this pitt offense is going to have to step it up whether they are at home or not

 

I disagree with both you and kd about Bryant not looking as good this year...I think he looks, at least, just as quick and explosive....I think its more of a ben and a better usage problem....as many have noted ben has just missed him a few times...if they connect there is probably no issue or no one saying he doesn't look the same.......I was looking at a breakdown yesterday on a steelers fan website....before this season Bryant had seen 171 total targets in the nfl...48 percent of those targets were either go route/fades or quick screens....now I don't have a breakdown for this year but I would imagine its probably close to similar......meaning they are pretty predictable with his usage

 

again ...go take a look at the td he scored on mackensie alexander in week 3 I think it is.....they need more variety in his routes when they get him the ball.....go youtube that td...it was vintage Bryant and he looked as fast as he ever has

If ur going to keep bringing it up it was vs terrance newman a very slow and very old cb.

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3 hours ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said:

that was my point though.....when you are talking jax, kc, minn, Detroit you are talking playoff caliber teams.....when ur talking Baltimore defense they are prob a playoff caliber unit or close...same with the bears........so when ur telling me "oh well they had a tough schedule the first half of the year as far as defenses they've faced" it doesn't take away from the fact that they haven't been able to produce tds...they got worked by jax and beaten by the bears...and barely beat Detroit....

 

this offense has a hall of fame qb(granted he may be close to being done)...a HOF elite wideout and prob a HOF elite back....and then they have a freak like Bryant and a kid like juju.......I know its the nfl and its tough...but they should have been able to produce a bit better........like I said pitts defense is good....but its not "were gonna run the ball 30+x and play defense and win the superbowl" good....when it comes playoff time this pitt offense is going to have to step it up whether they are at home or not

 

I disagree with both you and kd about Bryant not looking as good this year...I think he looks, at least, just as quick and explosive....I think its more of a ben and a better usage problem....as many have noted ben has just missed him a few times...if they connect there is probably no issue or no one saying he doesn't look the same.......I was looking at a breakdown yesterday on a steelers fan website....before this season Bryant had seen 171 total targets in the nfl...48 percent of those targets were either go route/fades or quick screens....now I don't have a breakdown for this year but I would imagine its probably close to similar......meaning they are pretty predictable with his usage

 

again ...go take a look at the td he scored on mackensie alexander in week 3 I think it is.....they need more variety in his routes when they get him the ball.....go youtube that td...it was vintage Bryant and he looked as fast as he ever has

 

Never once said he didn't look fast or explosive or "good" . But you're wrong of u think hes been as good as juju. My point is he had several opportunities in the early weeks where he dropped many passes thrown his way. He was a part of the gameplan early in the season and he didn't capitalize. Juju capitalized on his opportunites immediately.

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41 minutes ago, BrockStaysHigh said:

If ur going to keep bringing it up it was vs terrance newman a very slow and very old cb.

it was mackensie alexander actually.......i would check that again if i were you

 

nevermind...you were correct...it was newman

Edited by forever in debt to mo lewis
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20 minutes ago, Gourdeau said:

 

Never once said he didn't look fast or explosive or "good" . But you're wrong of u think hes been as good as juju. My point is he had several opportunities in the early weeks where he dropped many passes thrown his way. He was a part of the gameplan early in the season and he didn't capitalize. Juju capitalized on his opportunites immediately.

again...I think ur missing the point I'm trying to make....

 

if juju is getting high percentage intermediate routes than hes going to look better.......as I mentioned...I cant give you numbers on this year...but a steelers site broke down 171 of bryants previous targets prior to this year.....48 percent were go/fade routes or quick hitting screens.....

 

also heard a stat on Sirius radio that said, before his demotion, 43 percent of bryants targets this year were deemed "uncatchable".....I haven't once heard anything so far this year about Bryant having a lack of focus or having a drop problem....like something that plagued mike evans a couple years ago...haven't heard that once.....so yeah he may have had some balls bounce of his fingers but were probably balls that should have been there

 

I think Bryant has been misused and pigeonholed by haley....he can do more......im not knocking juju or anything of that sort....but I don't think both guys are being asked to do the same thing.....and even with juju having a good game in Detroit they needed a special play late to score more than 13 points against a playoff caliber team.......they are going to need more than that

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everytime I see a thread about Bryant anywhere it usually comes with 4 or 5 guys that seem bitter and want to pontificate....seems like guys bitter that a guy with that talent is being vocal about wanting better even though he almost lost all of chances for smoking something that is basically harmless and 3/4 of the league smokes anyway

 

people need to realize everything is relative...ya none of us have had bryants opportunity or even 1/4 of his ability....but its all relative....to him hes a guy that can be just as good as most of the top guys that hes is around and in the league with......and he wants that opportunity.....shame on him for wanting better.....that spoiled, entitled, crybaby right?!?!

 

shame on him for wanting better balls thrown...shame on him for wanting better usage......shame on him for wanting better opportunities to help a team that has struggled to score points against good defenses and playoff caliber teams!

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