chiefswarpath Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 Its that time of year for the debate of playoff tie breaker. Head-to-head record vs total points (these are only two options I have ever used) I am currently in a 12 team PPR facing this dilemma. Top 6 make the playoffs there are currently 3 teams tied at 6-6 for the last spot. I am one of them, I have lost to both of the other teams but as high points in league have outscored one by 336 points and the other by 272 points. Other than me leaving a scathing message board post I know nothing is going to happen this year. What is the best tiebreaker? I have been burned by both of these tie breaking scenarios but imo me outscoring you by that much over the coarse of the season is worth more than you beating me because Antonio Brown and Gronk had the same bye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYpkBLUE22 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 Well then either way, every single game that a team had someone on bye could be used as saying "you only beat me because". That's just the way it all works. I'm a fan of record over points though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefswarpath Posted November 29, 2017 Author Share Posted November 29, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, LordOpie said: total points should always be a top/key factor in all decisions. however, your concern about bye-weeks is invalid as a good owner is required to manage those situations and all owners deal with the same variables, so the owner who manages bye weeks best is also a factor. Not disagreeing with you. I just feel like total points is a much better indicator of the better team and therefore a much better tie breaker. I agree that every team has to deal with bye weeks but when I play a team that has multiple studs on a bye I consider myself lucky to play them that week, having an advantageous or "lucky" matchup in week 8 should not be the tiebreaker that decides our playoff fate imo. Edited November 29, 2017 by chiefswarpath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millworkguy Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 I like all play record. You get the win regardless of beating a team by .1 or 100. All play tells you how you did against all others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowboysDiehard Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 After yet another fiasco due to H2H last year, I got rid of it as well as divisions. W-L, then Total Points, then Pistols at 10 paces if the first two doesn't settle. Just getting rid of H2H would help in all these situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackass Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 This really needs to be spelled out in league rules. If not i think maybe you have to flip a coin or something because there are pretty legitimate arguments on both sides. In my main league, total points would be tie breaker in 3 way tie where noone won head to head against both the other teams. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelredd9 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 I like total points because it is the easiest. Even when the rules explain the head-to-head criteria explicitly, people will be confused or will complain when it is a 3-way or 4-way tie. I also think total points is the fairest since it is the best indicator of the best team. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 14 hours ago, chiefswarpath said: Its that time of year for the debate of playoff tie breaker. Head-to-head record vs total points (these are only two options I have ever used) I am currently in a 12 team PPR facing this dilemma. Top 6 make the playoffs there are currently 3 teams tied at 6-6 for the last spot. I am one of them, I have lost to both of the other teams but as high points in league have outscored one by 336 points and the other by 272 points. Other than me leaving a scathing message board post I know nothing is going to happen this year. What is the best tiebreaker? I have been burned by both of these tie breaking scenarios but imo me outscoring you by that much over the coarse of the season is worth more than you beating me because Antonio Brown and Gronk had the same bye. 3 hours ago, Jackass said: This really needs to be spelled out in league rules. If not i think maybe you have to flip a coin or something because there are pretty legitimate arguments on both sides. In my main league, total points would be tie breaker in 3 way tie where noone won head to head against both the other teams. As @Jackass says, your league rules should state how tiebreakers are determined for your league, thus no reason really for a debate as far as how it pertains to your particular situation. Now, as far as overall what is a more fair or, more importantly, a better barometer of overall performance to determine playoff teams, that is a different discussion altogether. My opinion is that in general total points is a better indicator of performance than looking at a one week sample size (I am not a fan of H2H being a determining factor of anything in fantasy football, nor am I really a fan of divisions in fantasy football). I am also a fan of rewarding consistency, so I like to put up the argument that all play record over the course of the season is also a strong measure to consider bringing into the equation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 First as somebody else stated tie-breakers should be spelled out when the season starts, its not something you want to decide on (as a commish, or league as a whole) with playoffs on the horizon. As for what is best, we stopped using H2H long ago. We still have divisions (3 with 4 teams each), and use division record (6 total) as tie breaker within division. Total points is the seconary tie breaker, or when not in the same division. This has worked well for us and is usually easy enough to understand. Our problem with H2H was within division there were 2 games, so often the record was 1-1 and meaningless, or you'd have the scenario where the two teams didn't play each other. 6 games within your division (would have been 10 when we had two 6 team divisions) against common opponents was a better gauge than 1 or maybe 2 H2H games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 There is no "best." It's a matter of preference. Just like PPR versus non, blind bidding versus another form of waivers, or having a flex spot versus not having one. That said, if we are strictly debating total points versus HTH, I think points is a better measurement of which team was stronger over the course of an entire season (rather than using a one- or two-week measurement in which byes might have played a significant role in the outcome). And, you can make an argument that there are better measurements than that.... all-play, etc. But, again, there is no "right" or "wrong" tie-breaker. . The one argument I always find funny is the "we mirror ourselves after the NFL so HTH has to matter" argument. NFL teams play on a football field, and if one team beats another, they have proven that they were the better team (on that day, at least). Fantasy football is done on paper (or the internet, or whatever you want to call it). Nobody beats anybody head-to-head, technically-speaking. It's all on paper. Way different than "real" football, where head-to-head really means something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 And, yes, you have to go with what the rules say (or don't say). If you don't like the rules, and the league-mates are not interested in changing them (or improving the league), then move on. There are millions of fantasy football leagues out there, and if you don't like the format or rules set of a particular league, odds are you can find a league that better suits what you're looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 3 hours ago, Big Country said: As @Jackass says, your league rules should state how tiebreakers are determined for your league, thus no reason really for a debate as far as how it pertains to your particular situation. Now, as far as overall what is a more fair or, more importantly, a better barometer of overall performance to determine playoff teams, that is a different discussion altogether. My opinion is that in general total points is a better indicator of performance than looking at a one week sample size (I am not a fan of H2H being a determining factor of anything in fantasy football, nor am I really a fan of divisions in fantasy football). I am also a fan of rewarding consistency, so I like to put up the argument that all play record over the course of the season is also a strong measure to consider bringing into the equation. Somebody gets it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Def. Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 (edited) Team in offense only keeper league just scored roughly 450 points over a two week span in a league where the weekly average is 125. To put it in perspective, its 27% of his total points for the season. That's 2 games out of 12 so far. It is possible to Chad Johnson total points (and seems to happen a decent amount in my observations over the years). Mark me down for the all play crowd. Match ups should mean something, otherwise why even join a H2H league. Plenty of bestballs out there if your just looking for total points. Edited November 29, 2017 by Def. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowboysDiehard Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, michaelredd9 said: I like total points because it is the easiest. Even when the rules explain the head-to-head criteria explicitly, people will be confused or will complain when it is a 3-way or 4-way tie. I also think total points is the fairest since it is the best indicator of the best team. True...I had it completely defined last year. Still had issues. ETA: Total points after W-L (edited to add this part b/c I agree with Def...a dude just dropped 400 pts in two weeks thanks in part to AB going off. He was 4-6 and now 6-6. He still has to win this week to make the playoffs even though those two games put him at #1 in pts. Edited November 29, 2017 by CowboysDiehard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 1 hour ago, Gopher said: Somebody gets it. Wait so you mean there really is a BEST way to do things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 3 hours ago, stevegrab said: Wait so you mean there really is a BEST way to do things? No, I stand by my claim that it's a matter of preference. That said, certain things don't make a lot of sense, even though they are commonly used. They're so common that people don't stop to question the reasoning and/or value behind them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpinalTapp Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 It is a matter of preference. We use total points to break wild card and bye week ties as it gets to complicated in a divisional format with odd numbers of games often played head to head. Within a division, we break ties as follows and in this order: 1. head to head 2. division record 3. total points. This has simplified everything in our four division league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdko Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 I think PF are the best way to decide tie-breakers. It's the best indicator of who the better team was. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indyrckstar Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Our Tie Breakers (pecking order) is this... 1. Overall record 2. Division record 3. Head to head 4. Total points scored Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn5033 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 I don’t see the problem with H2H as first tie breaker and then points scored. If head to head doesn’t matter than why have matchups at all during the regular season? Just have everyone set a line up every week and at the end of the season have the 6 highest scoring teams make the playoffs. If it comes down to a tie between two people I think the head to head is the best tie breaker. Most of the time if there are 3 or 4 teams tied the head to head gets thrown out and points scored is used anyways. I’ve had years where I had the highest scoring team and missed the playoffs entirely, doesn’t mean I diserved it over the teams that made it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 17 hours ago, Finn5033 said: I don’t see the problem with H2H as first tie breaker and then points scored. If head to head doesn’t matter than why have matchups at all during the regular season? Just have everyone set a line up every week and at the end of the season have the 6 highest scoring teams make the playoffs. If it comes down to a tie between two people I think the head to head is the best tie breaker. Most of the time if there are 3 or 4 teams tied the head to head gets thrown out and points scored is used anyways. I’ve had years where I had the highest scoring team and missed the playoffs entirely, doesn’t mean I diserved it over the teams that made it. Its not that H2H shouldn't matter, it already did in deciding W-L record, why have it matter more with 1 (maybe 2 games) being the barometer of which team is better. At least a division record is going to be 4-6-8 games in most cases. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn5033 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 1 hour ago, stevegrab said: Its not that H2H shouldn't matter, it already did in deciding W-L record, why have it matter more with 1 (maybe 2 games) being the barometer of which team is better. At least a division record is going to be 4-6-8 games in most cases. But to the op’s point he thinks he deserves it because he scored more points than the guy he is tied with even though the other guy beat him head to head. If your not going to use that head to head to break the tie than why use head to head matchups at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Because we like having H2H matchups as most leagues do. I don't see why that should require you to use H2H as a tie-breaker, or makes it more valid. If they played one game team A got a win, team B a loss, yet team B still had the same overall record? And more total points? I'd consider that team better. My opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn5033 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 43 minutes ago, stevegrab said: Because we like having H2H matchups as most leagues do. I don't see why that should require you to use H2H as a tie-breaker, or makes it more valid. If they played one game team A got a win, team B a loss, yet team B still had the same overall record? And more total points? I'd consider that team better. My opinion. Agree to disagree. To me it makes no sense to use head to head as your leagues structure but then throw it out when it comes to a tie breaker. As we all know, how many points your team scored during the regular season means nothing when the playoffs start. Fantasy is a week to week game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1fastdoc Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Does either system really account for strength of schedule? We go by record for playoffs and total earned points for tie breakers. The guy sitting at 12-1 has far fewer points against than anyone else. He just got lucky every week when other, seemingly better teams, failed to perform. But that's true for both fantasy and reality. Funny thing, I have the only team that beat him and I'm 6-7. I'm also tied with another person who, when we compare both points for and against, has a differential of 400 points compared to my team. I.e., I had to work harder to achieve the same record. As such, assuming we both win this week, I'm going to the playoffs with my better overall standing. Make sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.