BeeR

lmao @ PIT

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6 minutes ago, flemingd said:

 

The officials called it a touchdown genius. 

So you agree with me.

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Just now, CowboysDiehard said:

So you agree with me.

 

Your comprehension is as bad as your understanding of how replay works.

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1 hour ago, jamesplante11 said:

 

In the locker room after the game the asked Big Ben about it and he said he wanted to clock the ball and kick it, Todd Hailey told him run the play. Bad decision on the throw tho, said that puppy thru the uprights or put it in the dirt

 

Didn't see anything post game.. too sick about it.  Another game that coulda been but poor coaching.. they ran bell outside with great success all night. On last 2 drives though ? They played man all night on def with relatively good success but final drive by NE, hey lets go back to zone..  

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8 minutes ago, flemingd said:

 

Your comprehension is as bad as your understanding of how replay works.

Bless your little heart

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10 minutes ago, Gourdeau said:

 

Didn't see anything post game.. too sick about it.  


Big Ben's pass was eerily reminiscent of the Patriots Hawks SB game.  At least the Steelers only lost playoff position instead of losing a SB. 

 

Chin up.

 

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34 minutes ago, Bobby Brown said:


Big Ben's pass was eerily reminiscent of the Patriots Hawks SB game.  At least the Steelers only lost playoff position instead of losing a SB. 

 

Chin up.

 

Yeah there was positive take aways, steelers dominated for the most part on offense with time of possession, with Brown back and haden back in the likely rematch ( although jags are legit) im much more confident than i was before todays game

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8 hours ago, Bobby Brown said:

 

Meh.  The rule might be garbage but that call has been an easy incomplete for awhile now.  James knew it on the sideline and so did everyone else.

I disagree.  Nobody knew that the TD was even in question until they realized it was taking the officials longer than it should have to confirm the score.  Belicheck, Tomlin, the crowd, the announcers, any/all of the players that they showed for either team... None of them looked like they had any cause for concern (in the case of PIT) or cause to question the score (in the case of NE).  James looked like a guy who had just scored the winning TD, not somebody who was concerned that it wouldn't stand.  It wasn't until 2-3 minutes later that everybody realized something was up.  Nantz and Romo certainly didn't know.  It took them a couple of minutes to figure out that it MIGHT not stand, and again, that is only because everybody was sitting around wondering what the refs were waiting for. 

 

I don't think it was as clear-cut as some are making it seem.  He didn't drop the ball.  Just because the ball moves doesn't mean it's incomplete.  I've seen instances where they've determined that the movement (and the tip of the ball touching the grass) didn't constitute a drop (or that the catch wouldn't have been made without the "help" of the ground), and the catch stands. 

 

As for the rule itself, it's bizarre.  A player can reach for the goalline, have the ball batted out of his hands, but as long as it touched the plane, he's good.  On the other hand, a player can catch the ball at the 1-yard-line, take two steps (through the plane and into the end zone), fall to the ground and bobble the ball (but not drop or lose the ball), and it's deemed incomplete because the nose grazed the grass (long after he had possession of the ball)?  I would like to have been a fly on the wall when some genius (or group of geniuses) decided that that makes any sense at all. 

 

Basically, the "plane" rule and the "you must complete the catch" rule have a very hard time co-existing, in my mind.  Not saying that they can't.  It just doesn't make any sense why they both should. 

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9 hours ago, Bobby Brown said:

He did,  but that isn't the rule.  The rule is keeping complete control after that fact; all the way to the ground.  He lost control of the ball.  

 

No conclusive proof he lost control going to the ground. The zebras assumed he did because one hand slipped off the ball but you can control the ball with one hand against your body and the ball doesn't really move.

 

BS call but got to keep Brady and the Patriots happy.

Edited by Dolphin_Akie
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LMFAO @ this thread...

Edited by the outlaw
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13 hours ago, Bobby Brown said:

 

Meh.  The rule might be garbage but that call has been an easy incomplete for awhile now.  James knew it on the sideline and so did everyone else.

 

Amazing how many fans still don't get this and every week I read some other "lifelong fan" complaining that they don't know what is or isn't a catch anymore, usually because they cannot accept things have changed and what they thought was a catch isn't always.

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"crossing the plane" rule applie to having possession of the ball, which you cannot do until you've completed a catch and which cannot be done until you've completed the "retain control going to ground" part when that is involved.

 

I agree it is baffling at tmes knowing what will or won't be counted, but there are some guidlelines and reasonable doubt cases. This isn't some NFL conspiracy to help the Pats, or did they force Ben to throw the INT too?

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1 hour ago, stevegrab said:

"crossing the plane" rule applie to having possession of the ball, which you cannot do until you've completed a catch and which cannot be done until you've completed the "retain control going to ground" part when that is involved.

 

I agree it is baffling at tmes knowing what will or won't be counted, but there are some guidlelines and reasonable doubt cases. This isn't some NFL conspiracy to help the Pats, or did they force Ben to throw the INT too?

exactly

 

its funny to watch the reactions...you can tell who really has a hard on of hatred for the patriots

 

the play didn't end the game...the patriots finished the game....sometimes the football gods ask you to make one more play....one team did

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I didn't have any skin in that game, and I understand the rule completely.  I just didn't think the "movement" was enough to overturn the call.  It wasn't bobbled or dropped.  Sure, the ball moved, but if we want to get really technical, the ball "moves" on every catch. 

 

My bigger issue was with the statement that everybody knew the call was going to be overturned.  That's not even close to being true.  It was closer to the opposite, actually. 

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42 minutes ago, Gopher said:

I didn't have any skin in that game, and I understand the rule completely.  I just didn't think the "movement" was enough to overturn the call.  It wasn't bobbled or dropped.  Sure, the ball moved, but if we want to get really technical, the ball "moves" on every catch.

 

My bigger issue was with the statement that everybody knew the call was going to be overturned.  That's not even close to being true.  It was closer to the opposite, actually.

 

I was talking more about the people saying "no well in hell was that not a catch, not a TD"  and the whole "I don't know what is a catch anymore" like we've never seen apparent caches overturned.

 

I agree that nobody realized it right away or KNEW it was not a TD and would be overturned. But once they don't line up for the XP that had to be on everybody's mind.

 

My ponit was also nothing about proving who are Pats haters or any such thing as stated by foreveindebt.

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16 hours ago, jamesplante11 said:

 

It still should have been “not enough evidence to overturn” 

This.

 

No way you can definitively say he didn't have a finger between the ball and the ground. Whatever they ruled on the field should have stood.

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Yeah, I get it.  It's a shame that everything has to be so polarizing these days.... Everybody is on one end of the spectrum or the other, on just about every topic, while the rational few (and the truth) normally lie somewhere in the middle.  Doesn't matter if you're having a conversation on FB, watching CNN vs FOX, or debating a call in sports.... everybody has to get in their jabs and eventually name-calling (or at least a low blow here or there) ensues. 

 

This thread is no different.  Either the refs conspired to aid New England (which isn't the case), or we all should have known it wasn't a TD as soon as it happened (which is laughable, frankly). 

 

I can't say what would have been going through my mind, had I watched it live.  After the third quarter, I took my kids to the park (had the game taped).  I called my buddy (he had been "Gurley'd" and I wanted to make sure he was OK).  He mentioned that PIT had lost, not because of a bad call, but because of an INT by Ben on the final play.  But, he did mention that James had caught a TD that had been overturned.  So, when I went home and watched the last few minutes of the game, I already knew the outcome.  Regardless, it was pretty clear that everybody (or at least the people that were on television) thought it was a score.  Heck, say what you want about Romo, but even Jim Nantz (who is usually pretty quick to interject that a score still needs to be reviewed, etc.) said that the TD would "undoubtedly" stand.  So, sure, once they didn't kick the PAT right away, people started to wonder.  But, that was literally a couple of minutes later. 

 

I thought it was one of those calls that was too close to overturn, no matter which way it was originally called.  If it had been called no catch, you can't overturn it.  But, given that it was called a TD, I think it's a huge stretch to say that there was conclusive evidence that he didn't complete the catch, either.  I thought this article makes some good points, and sums it up pretty well......

 

James TD Overturned

 

 

Quote

 

This clause in the NFL rulebook doesn’t make the replay officials’ case any easier to make: “If the ball touches the ground after the player secures control of it, it is a catch, provided that the player continues to maintain control.”

The NFL’s explanation doesn’t address uncertainty around whether the ball hit the ground while it was moving in James’ hands. It also doesn’t explain why James couldn’t be in control of the ball as it touches the ground at the end of the play.

 

 

 

Quote

 

It boils down to rules being rules. Even though James had the ball and reached for the goal line, he didn’t possess it through the catch by the NFL’s definition.

 

But, rules being rules, the NFL’s replay staff also needs to be certain that either contact with the ground knocked the ball out of James’ possession, or that he didn’t possess it when it touched the ground at the end.

 

There are so many disputable things here that “indisputable” is impossible.

 

 

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The rule is the issue, we have seen this many times now that "when is a catch complete to the ground"... This rule is so broad as to when it is used or applied... I argue they apply this rule way too often. The catch in this play and "The Dez play" for example had a catch/control in playing field... then the player then made a "football move" to reach for the goal... again with control... There at that point the breaking the plane rule should be in effect.

 

Now, that is not how the NFL rules this stuff (which is the problem IMO) but to argue that is not a catch when we see catch and a move to score I think that speaks for itself. NFL needs to address this as this is a regular occurrence lately... For the record I hate both Brady (pure jealousy I guess) and RaperBurger (POS) so I really didn't want either to win.  

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29 minutes ago, stevegrab said:

 

I was talking more about the people saying "no well in hell was that not a catch, not a TD"  and the whole "I don't know what is a catch anymore" like we've never seen apparent caches overturned.

 

I agree that nobody realized it right away or KNEW it was not a TD and would be overturned. But once they don't line up for the XP that had to be on everybody's mind.

 

My ponit was also nothing about proving who are Pats haters or any such thing as stated by foreveindebt.

 

My previous post was in response to this, but I didn't quote you there.  

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33 minutes ago, stevegrab said:

 

I was talking more about the people saying "no well in hell was that not a catch, not a TD"  and the whole "I don't know what is a catch anymore" like we've never seen apparent caches overturned.

 

I agree that nobody realized it right away or KNEW it was not a TD and would be overturned. But once they don't line up for the XP that had to be on everybody's mind.

 

My ponit was also nothing about proving who are Pats haters or any such thing as stated by foreveindebt.

I'm not implying that anyone who thinks the call reversal was wrong/bad is automatically a patriot hater.....but theres one guy in here who clearly didn't even understand the difference between a runner and someone who has yet to complete a catch.....then goes to post a meme implying that its impossible to beat the patriots because the game is rigged in their favor....its just too funny to me....the hate is real

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1 hour ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said:

I'm not implying that anyone who thinks the call reversal was wrong/bad is automatically a patriot hater.....but theres one guy in here who clearly didn't even understand the difference between a runner and someone who has yet to complete a catch.....then goes to post a meme implying that its impossible to beat the patriots because the game is rigged in their favor....its just too funny to me....the hate is real

 

It was a joke man....calm down. I'm a Browns fan living in NE. I enjoy poking and prodding at my friends that are Pats fans and that ran across my news feed.

 

Its also laughable that you don't think I understand the difference between a runner and someone who hasn't completed a catch. I'm well aware of the difference, maybe I wasn't clear when I originally posted, I was more questioning the rule of "break the plane" and "complete the catch co-existence.

 

I would like to know how the refs in the Carolina overturned and incomplete pass to Byrd calling it a TD when he was bobbling the ball while sitting with a cheek out of bounds

 

Edit: you should also clarify that your opinion is biased being a Patriots fan and all

Edited by jamesplante11

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2 hours ago, Gopher said:

 

 

This thread is no different.  Either the refs conspired to aid New England (which isn't the case), or we all should have known it wasn't a TD as soon as it happened (which is laughable, frankly). 

 

 

 

 

 

:lol:  This is like the 3rd time you've referenced my comment in a somewhat disparaging tone, so it obviously struck an unintentional chord.  Nowhere did I say that it was a known incompletion the "second it happened" or "right away."   That is your loose misinterpretation you're repeatedly banging away on (which is a bit humorous given that this post is also criticizing others for sensational claims and lack of discourse).  When they showed the replay a couple times, it was abundantly clear to me, the officials were going to reverse the call. Same thing as the Dez incompletion in the playoffs a couple years ago; I knew it was to be overturned after the 2nd or 3rd replay.  Is the rule is iffy?  Sure.  But the NFL is remarkably consistent on how they call that.

 

My buddy texted me before the ruling for the James play during the official review:  "Incomplete - Calvin Johnson rule. If they give him this TD it's ridiculous."  The look on James's face during the review period also told the story.  I sincerely think that the majority of knowledgeable fans, and people familiar with the rule; knew that catch was likely going to be overturned. Sorry, for the smattering of hyperbole; but I don't think I laid it on near as much as you think.  :)

Edited by Bobby Brown

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Hoping the AFC title game is PITT/NE.     That was a great game to watch.    I think it must be tough to have that TD called back and then have to go out there try to do it again.   Steelers did not look ready when the ball was snapped.  Not sure if it was supposed to be a fake spike or not.    They should have played it safer with a  fade that if not caught would have went incomplete.    Then they could have kicked the FG and we would have had OT.     Steelers looked really good yesterday.      Maybe NE will drop a game and end up traveling to PITT for the AFC title game and we can all forget the TD that was called back.  

 

Good luck Steeler fans the rest of the way

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16 minutes ago, Patriots said:

Hoping the AFC title game is PITT/NE.     That was a great game to watch.    I think it must be tough to have that TD called back and then have to go out there try to do it again.   Steelers did not look ready when the ball was snapped.  Not sure if it was supposed to be a fake spike or not.    They should have played it safer with a  fade that if not caught would have went incomplete.    Then they could have kicked the FG and we would have had OT.     Steelers looked really good yesterday.      Maybe NE will drop a game and end up traveling to PITT for the AFC title game and we can all forget the TD that was called back.  

 

Good luck Steeler fans the rest of the way

 

Big Ben said he wanted to clock it. Then Hailey told him run the play. The run a fake clock play like that frequently but they usually have Brown run a fade and play jump ball 

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