kdko

Brady Worked to Force Garrapolo Out of NE?

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1 hour ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said:

im willing to debate with anyone and be reasonable.....stay salty in dolphinland....you might string together winning seasons sometime this century...youve added next to nothing here

 

My apologies for pointing out your hypocrisy while you insult every poster that does not follow your narrative.  Carry on...

 

:rolleyes:

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21 hours ago, LordOpie said:

i'm probably too "loyal"... if a guy has been simply amazing, you let him ride out into the sunset on his terms. I don't care about Dan Marino's declining skills or Don Shula's aging... when they forced those two out, "My" Dolphins lost my support.  I'd rather have several years of fail -- which they've had anyways -- than to force out guys who were so critically important to the team. Now, saying that, If Shula said Marino was done, then I'd accept that because Shula meant more to the Dolphins than Belichek has meant to the Pats. I wonder if the Dolphins owner Joe Robbie would've pushed Shula out? I remember Robbie's kids screwed everything up.

 

/rambling

 

I dunno, if Shula had stopped starting Marino and the QB that came in went 11-5, I don't think you'd be too upset for long.  Winning is winning.  Bledsoe had a good run, but it was easy to get over the breakup when Brady came in.

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32 minutes ago, Def. said:

 

My apologies for pointing out your hypocrisy while you insult every poster that does not follow your narrative.  Carry on...

 

:rolleyes:

dolphins and browns fans unite! one day you will find a qb! i promise!

 

my narrative? that this wickersham notion of a rift between the big 3 over the trade was garbage? hmmmm....i dunno...i think i might be on to something there

 

my other narrative that belichick was fine with taking the 2nd and getting a backup qb familiar with his system for jimmy when he was only going to trade him to the NFC? hmmm....im sorry i forgot that you guys know more than the genius!

 

what was your narrative again? or the narrative of james again? or anyone else?

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so far the only person that has tried to many any sense is goudreau with his house flipping comparison

 

the only problem is he doesnt know where belichick places the value....is 3.5 years of service from jimmy, and insurance in case brady gets hurt or falls off, worth the initial 200k investment? is the 2nd rounder in return for him the extra 100k in profit to belichick....you dont really know...no one really knows.....you dont know what he is/was thinking

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, kdko said:

 

I dunno, if Shula had stopped starting Marino and the QB that came in went 11-5, I don't think you'd be too upset for long.  Winning is winning.  Bledsoe had a good run, but it was easy to get over the breakup when Brady came in.

yaaa....but i dont remember any sane NE fan(trust me we have a ton of crazies up here who dont know anything...the types that were screaming for michael bishop and rohan davey) that was saying after cassel went 11-5 "hey man ..lets trade brady...we can get a ton for him....this winning stuff is easy"........but i do remember fans of other teams always using it as a "stick" to say "see its the system not brady anyone can do it ".....which just isnt true........if it were that easy the league had 17 years to catch up to the "system" and also copy it...if it were that easy every qb in the league would win 12 games ever year...

 

despite marino not having the hardware he is pretty much on the same level down south as brady is up here....bledsoe was never on that level up here and he was on his way out one way or another when belichick got the job...it was only a matter of time...even if he didnt get hurt the move to brady would have happened sooner rather than later....belichick hated bledsoe as a qb...not as a teammate or anything...but his penchant for low percentage deep throws and slinging didnt sit well with belichicks approach....

 

my season tix were in sec 112 at old fox stadium....id go to every home game in the early 90s to about the early 2000s....id see the same guys every week in my section and talk to them.....and there were literally like 10 of them that would always have their patriots gear on every week until the dolphins came to town and theyd have marino jerseys and dolphins gear on...it was too funny

Edited by forever in debt to mo lewis

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2 hours ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said:

the more and more you browns fans speak its looking like, not only are you idiots, but you have a major inferiority complex

 

all i said was...you cant possibly be looking at the trade through the same lense i .....its impossible....here you are all clamoring for a 26 year old franchise qb...the browns would love to have it.....meanwhile tom is the man that has led a 17 year run through my 20s and 30s and has won 2 out of the last 3 and probably an mvp award this year.....im not willing to let that go for anyone

 

are you upset that kraft shot down wickershams article? i mean...theres still time for kraft to be shown and liar and wickersham to be right....dont give up hope yet

 

Why does everyone have to look at everything they the same lens as you. 

 

You know...it’s not just Browns fans that you think has this inferiority complex, it’s everyone that doesn’t agree with what you say. 

 

So let's recap, it’s not you that has an issue with people not sharing the same opinion. It’s everyone else that has a problem because we don’t agree so we must be wrong and completely idiotic

 

By definition, I think the only one with inferiority complex would be you my friend....depending on how tall you are I’d even call it Napoleon Complex

 

in·fe·ri·or·i·ty com·plex
noun
  1. an unrealistic feeling of general inadequacy caused by actual or supposed inferiority in one sphere, sometimes marked by aggressive behavior in compensation
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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, jamesplante11 said:

 

Why does everyone have to look at everything they the same lens as you. 

 

You know...it’s not just Browns fans that you think has this inferiority complex, it’s everyone that doesn’t agree with what you say. 

 

So let's recap, it’s not you that has an issue with people not sharing the same opinion. It’s everyone else that has a problem because we don’t agree so we must be wrong and completely idiotic

 

By definition, I think the only one with inferiority complex would be you my friend....depending on how tall you are I’d even call it Napoleon Complex

 

in·fe·ri·or·i·ty com·plex
noun
  1. an unrealistic feeling of general inadequacy caused by actual or supposed inferiority in one sphere, sometimes marked by aggressive behavior in compensation

im 6-1...does that qualify for a napolean complex?

 

werent you the one touting wickershams credentials? do you still believe there is merit to what wickersham has said in regards to there being a rift between brady, kraft and belichick over the garappolo trade? are you willing to put anything at stake over it? 

 

you can share any opinion you wish....im not trying to stop you....but if i dont think its right, and i can sensibly and logically back my point, im going to tell you

 

you are like one of those guys that comes on a football board and wants to talk football but gets upset when someone actually talks football......its several of you attacking me saying "i dismiss you if you dont agree" or "whatever you said blah blah if you dont agree with him"....im willing to let anyone disagree with me...and we can debate...you guys launched the insult insinuating "nobody can be right if you dont agree with him"....which just isnt true...then i throw an insult back at you and now youre upset......through most of this post ive been talking about football....and theres like 3 of you that have made like 5 or 6 posts where you just insinuate i automatically shoot down everyones opinion if they arent me or a patriots fan....its simply your own agenda and narrative you have created....im willing to discuss football with anyone and ive been talking football and football situations

 

no one has to look at everything through the same lense as me dummy...i said simply you fans of teams like the browns, chargers, fins etc arent looking at the jimmy g/brady situation through the same lense as me...i think i made that point specifically clear......and you cant possibly be looking it at through the same lense because you arent living through the same last 17 years with the same team....ive been a patriots fan since birth....and i love football.....can you say the same for you about both of those things? how could u be looking at it through the same lense? i think its pretty simple

 

explain to me one more time how belichick got 0 return on his invesment.......because i think i explained my stance and you said nothing in response to refute what i said...just launched accusations of me being unreasonable

Edited by forever in debt to mo lewis

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Below you will find posts of what you call "debating" where you call everyone idiots. I am all for debate, but if the first thing someone says to me is "gtfo your an idiot" its not a debate and your never going to win with such  a simple minded individual.

 

On ‎1‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 4:33 PM, forever in debt to mo lewis said:

idiotic logic

 

they got 4 years of him at 2nd round money.....now of course now that youve seen him reel off 5 wins its a loss...before that you had no idea....take away 2 of those wins and the pick is like 34....which would have doubled the value they paid for him on the trade chart......they had 4 years of a guy the liked and wanted to back up brady in the event of a disaster or emergency(like that suspension thing)

 

how many 2nd round guys are getting cut in the NFL from the teams that drafted them within 2-3 years...or traded for 5-6th round picks

 

you ever heard of kyle van noy?

 

21 hours ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said:

yer another idiot...just wanting to put words in my mouth you want to hear me say.....i never said either of those things

 

all i said was its easy for fans of teams who arent in the midst of a 17 year dynasty with a QB whos still playing at an MVP level to make judgements....hell your team aint ever seen a decent qb in its 2nd existence.....of course you are all about jimmy g....ur not thinking clearly...you would love to have him......you arent looking at it from the same place I am

 

i didnt say every team would fire their staff for the chance.....what i said was if belichick wanted out he knew this the day he was "allegedly forced" to trade jimmy....and a backdoor deal could have been worked...of course belichick is still under contract and something would have to be worked out....but if belichick wanted out he would have known the instant he was forced into anything and could have made that clear to the giants and even moved jimmy to them 

 

you bring almost nothing to this discussion or debate except accusations that i automatically dismiss everyones opinion even though ive agreed with several people when i feel they make a decent point

 

3 hours ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said:

the more and more you browns fans speak its looking like, not only are you idiots, but you have a major inferiority complex

 

all i said was...you cant possibly be looking at the trade through the same lense i am.....its impossible....here you are all clamoring for a 26 year old franchise qb...the browns would love to have it.....meanwhile tom is the man that has led a 17 year run through my 20s and 30s and has won 2 out of the last 3 and probably an mvp award this year.....im not willing to let that go for anyone

 

are you upset that kraft shot down wickershams article? i mean...theres still time for kraft to be shown and liar and wickersham to be right....dont give up hope yet

 

 

Below was your argument against Jimmy being successful. To which you drew a line of direct comparison to Tom Brady, which no one else has done except you. We have just all merely stated Garropolo has seemed relatively successful.

On ‎1‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 4:47 PM, forever in debt to mo lewis said:

i will back up what im saying tho

 

do you see the report for rappaport i posted

 

now when guys tell me jimmy was a  waste because all they got was a 2nd...i can reel off prob 30 2nd rounders from 2012 to 2016 that are no longer with their teams and were gone for just about nothing

 

i actually make sense....when i say "would u bet your life jimmy wins an mvp award" you get some smartass that says "antonio brown hasnt won one..i guess hes a waste"....but i changed it to relate to AB "would u bet your life jimmy makes 5 1st team all pros"....i dont hear him though

 

 

Clearly I'm not the onlyone that believes you insult most ideals that oppose yours

2 hours ago, Def. said:

 

My apologies for pointing out your hypocrisy while you insult every poster that does not follow your narrative.  Carry on...

 

:rolleyes:

Finally....

49 minutes ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said:

im 6-1...does that qualify for a napolean complex?

 

werent you the one touting wickershams credentials? do you still believe there is merit to what wickersham has said in regards to there being a rift between brady, kraft and belichick over the garappolo trade? are you willing to put anything at stake over it? 

 

you can share any opinion you wish....im not trying to stop you....but if i dont think its right, and i can sensibly and logically back my point, im going to tell you

 

you are like one of those guys that comes on a football board and wants to talk football but gets upset when someone actually talks football......its several of you attacking me saying "i dismiss you if you dont agree" or "whatever you said blah blah if you dont agree with him"....im willing to let anyone disagree with me...and we can debate...you guys launched the insult insinuating "nobody can be right if you dont agree with him"....which just isnt true...then i throw an insult back at you and now youre upset......through most of this post ive been talking about football....and theres like 3 of you that have made like 5 or 6 posts where you just insinuate i automatically shoot down everyones opinion if they arent me or a patriots fan....its simply your own agenda and narrative you have created....im willing to discuss football with anyone and ive been talking football and football situations

 

no one has to look at everything through the same lense as me dummy...i said simply you fans of teams like the browns, chargers, fins etc arent looking at the jimmy g/brady situation through the same lense as me...i think i made that point specifically clear......and you cant possibly be looking it at through the same lense because you arent living through the same last 17 years with the same team....ive been a patriots fan since birth....and i love football.....can you say the same for you about both of those things? how could u be looking at it through the same lense? i think its pretty simple

 

explain to me one more time how belichick got 0 return on his invesment.......because i think i explained my stance and you said nothing in response to refute what i said...just launched accusations of me being unreasonable-

 

 

-No, 6'1" wouldn't qualify for Napoleon complex so you good there

 

-Yes I was the one touting Wickershams credentials, and yes I do believe him. 2 weeks ago Brady was asked about finishing his career in New England and of course he said he had zero intentions to ever leave because its his home and where his legacy lives. Yesterday he was interviewed and asked the same question to which his response was "Jordan finished with the Wizards and Montana finished with the Chiefs. This is a business and no one is bigger than the business" Why such an ideal change if there isn't a little bit of trouble brewing in the workplace? Now are the claims entirely on point, probably not, but there's deff something there

 

- I'm always more than willing to share my opinion, and I gratefully listen to others. Being open minded when it comes to debates opens your eyes to many sides you do not consider, However calling everyone idiots and telling everyone their ideology is idiotic isn't debating. At that point there's a good chance I stop listening because I feel my opinion doesn't need to be attacked because it doesn't mirror yours.  

 

-I'm here to talk football, and 90% of the time that's what I do, and have had many successful debates. No one in this thread is attacking you....I haven't even seen anyone tell you that they think you are wrong. All everyone has does is merely just stated their opposing opinion. YOU are the on that's attacking everyone on their "idiotic thinking" because we are all just "salty fans" and we all have such an "inferiority complex"

 

-Obviously people are looking at things thru their own lens and it doesn't matter who they are a fan of. Even @Caveman_Nick , who at one point was called the biggest Patriots homer by someone that dreams about him, has even said that he believes the Patriots lost on that deal.... YOU EVEN SAID I AGREE WITH YOU.

 

-I am 28 years old and yes I have been a football fan for as long as my memory can serve me..I have been a Browns fan for the entirety of it and its been a ride that's for sure.

 

Alright lets try this one more time, and I will take over with the house example for commonality.

- I buy a foreclosed home for $100,000

-I invest another $100,000 to make it what I want

-5 years pass

-I pay my mortgage at $1500 a month

-In 5 years I decide to sell the house because my family is growing

-The market stayed the same as when purchased

-The house sells for $200,000

- I have now paid $90,000 in mortgage to live there (Kind of like Jimmys 2nd string salary)

-Out of that $90,000 only $30,000 was to principal.

-So at this point I am +30,000 (because I now only owe 170,000)

-By the time closing costs and commission is paid I'm down to ~18,000 profit left

- I'm going to use that ~18,000 as a down payment

-I now have 0 return on investment, all I did was change houses (Garappolo to Hoyer)

-Yes you are right, it wasn't a negative return on investment

-If NE traded him closer to last years draft the possibly could have got SF pick in the 2nd round...which would've been higher than the 9th in the 2nd they got now

 

New England missed the market on Jimmy G to get any kind of return on investment and that is my belief. I'm sorry you don't believe that.

 

Also, many timesyou have said people don't address things you bring up....man, they get buried in your massive posts and multiple posts. Half the time I have no idea what your referencing especially if I'm using my phone. The things your looking for an answer to a buried in between "Your and Idiot" and "I make sense, you just don't get it"  

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, jamesplante11 said:

 

 

1. New England missed the market on Jimmy G to get any kind of return on investment and that is my belief. I'm sorry you don't believe that.

 

2. Also, many timesyou have said people don't address things you bring up....man, they get buried in your massive posts and multiple posts. Half the time I have no idea what your referencing especially if I'm using my phone. The things your looking for an answer to a buried in between "Your and Idiot" and "I make sense, you just don't get it"  

 

1. NE thoroughly bungled its handling of Jimmy G and they will long regret it. Whatever internal struggles exist, they got nothing more than they paid as far as draft capital and they wasted an opportunity to have its next long-term franchise QB.  NE's mistake is the 49ers gain.

 

2. With respect to the second comment above, well what did you expect?  Pats fans rarely argue reasonably.  That fan base is a bizarre combination of the paranoid (from the litany of cheating events that Kraft, Belicheat and Brady have been accused of) to obnoxious arrogance. Good luck finding a sound voice of reason among that group, particularly the parade of band-wagon fans they cultivated in recent years.  It is pointless to debate anything with them because no matter what you say, they will insist that they are in the right and that you are just a "hater".  

Edited by Dcat
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Is this thread worth reading or should I just continue to root against the Patriots?

 

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On 1/5/2018 at 8:18 AM, forever in debt to mo lewis said:

FYI pats have issued a joint statement from kraft, brady and belichick shooting it all down...

 

Video of conversation

 

 

What actually happened 

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1 hour ago, Bobby Brown said:

Is this thread worth reading or should I just continue to root against the Patriots?

 

You?  Definitely plan B.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Dcat said:

 

1. NE thoroughly bungled its handling of Jimmy G and they will long regret it. Whatever internal struggles exist, they got nothing more than they paid as far as draft capital and they wasted an opportunity to have its next long-term franchise QB.  NE's mistake is the 49ers gain.

 

2. With respect to the second comment above, well what did you expect?  Pats fans rarely argue reasonably.  That fan base is a bizarre combination of the paranoid (from the litany of cheating events that Kraft, Belicheat and Brady have been accused of) to obnoxious arrogance. Good luck finding a sound voice of reason among that group, particularly the parade of band-wagon fans they cultivated in recent years.  It is pointless to debate anything with them because no matter what you say, they will insist that they are in the right and that you are just a "hater".  

Please read:  https://www.google.com/amp/s/nesn.com/2018/01/can-we-stop-pretending-patriots-could-have-franchised-jimmy-garoppolo/amp/

 

This is a clearly laid out explanation of why the Pats did the right thing trading Jimmy G.

 

Again, i think they could have gotten more than they did, but to say they completely bungled it is just uninformed ranting from a Pats hater.  It’s myopic.  It looks at one detail and says ‘Bad!’  The situatuin required action.  They acted, and did what they needed to.  I would just like to have seen them talk SF into a first rounder, even if it was in 2019.

Edited by Caveman_Nick

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Caveman_Nick said:

Please read:  https://www.google.com/amp/s/nesn.com/2018/01/can-we-stop-pretending-patriots-could-have-franchised-jimmy-garoppolo/amp/

 

This is a clearly laid out explanation of why the Pats did the right thing trading Jimmy G.

 

Again, i think they could have gotten more than they did, but to say they completely bungled it is just uninformed ranting from a Pats hater.  It’s myopic.  It looks at one detail and says ‘Bad!’  The situatuin required action.  They acted, and did what they needed to.  I would just like to have seen them talk SF into a first rounder, even if it was in 2019.

watch me be james or one of the other guys

 

"omg what an idiot...you only agree with people that agree with you (which is no one but yourself")

Edited by forever in debt to mo lewis

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6 hours ago, jamesplante11 said:

Below you will find posts of what you call "debating" where you call everyone idiots. I am all for debate, but if the first thing someone says to me is "gtfo your an idiot" its not a debate and your never going to win with such  a simple minded individual.

 

 

 

 

 

Below was your argument against Jimmy being successful. To which you drew a line of direct comparison to Tom Brady, which no one else has done except you. We have just all merely stated Garropolo has seemed relatively successful.

 

 

Clearly I'm not the onlyone that believes you insult most ideals that oppose yours

Finally....

 

 

-No, 6'1" wouldn't qualify for Napoleon complex so you good there

 

-Yes I was the one touting Wickershams credentials, and yes I do believe him. 2 weeks ago Brady was asked about finishing his career in New England and of course he said he had zero intentions to ever leave because its his home and where his legacy lives. Yesterday he was interviewed and asked the same question to which his response was "Jordan finished with the Wizards and Montana finished with the Chiefs. This is a business and no one is bigger than the business" Why such an ideal change if there isn't a little bit of trouble brewing in the workplace? Now are the claims entirely on point, probably not, but there's deff something there

 

- I'm always more than willing to share my opinion, and I gratefully listen to others. Being open minded when it comes to debates opens your eyes to many sides you do not consider, However calling everyone idiots and telling everyone their ideology is idiotic isn't debating. At that point there's a good chance I stop listening because I feel my opinion doesn't need to be attacked because it doesn't mirror yours.  

 

-I'm here to talk football, and 90% of the time that's what I do, and have had many successful debates. No one in this thread is attacking you....I haven't even seen anyone tell you that they think you are wrong. All everyone has does is merely just stated their opposing opinion. YOU are the on that's attacking everyone on their "idiotic thinking" because we are all just "salty fans" and we all have such an "inferiority complex"

 

-Obviously people are looking at things thru their own lens and it doesn't matter who they are a fan of. Even @Caveman_Nick , who at one point was called the biggest Patriots homer by someone that dreams about him, has even said that he believes the Patriots lost on that deal.... YOU EVEN SAID I AGREE WITH YOU.

 

-I am 28 years old and yes I have been a football fan for as long as my memory can serve me..I have been a Browns fan for the entirety of it and its been a ride that's for sure.

 

Alright lets try this one more time, and I will take over with the house example for commonality.

- I buy a foreclosed home for $100,000

-I invest another $100,000 to make it what I want

-5 years pass

-I pay my mortgage at $1500 a month

-In 5 years I decide to sell the house because my family is growing

-The market stayed the same as when purchased

-The house sells for $200,000

- I have now paid $90,000 in mortgage to live there (Kind of like Jimmys 2nd string salary)

-Out of that $90,000 only $30,000 was to principal.

-So at this point I am +30,000 (because I now only owe 170,000)

-By the time closing costs and commission is paid I'm down to ~18,000 profit left

- I'm going to use that ~18,000 as a down payment

-I now have 0 return on investment, all I did was change houses (Garappolo to Hoyer)

-Yes you are right, it wasn't a negative return on investment

-If NE traded him closer to last years draft the possibly could have got SF pick in the 2nd round...which would've been higher than the 9th in the 2nd they got now

 

New England missed the market on Jimmy G to get any kind of return on investment and that is my belief. I'm sorry you don't believe that.

 

Also, many timesyou have said people don't address things you bring up....man, they get buried in your massive posts and multiple posts. Half the time I have no idea what your referencing especially if I'm using my phone. The things your looking for an answer to a buried in between "Your and Idiot" and "I make sense, you just don't get it"  

still waiting to see where the first thing anyone told you was 'gfto u idiot".

 

you added nothing...or offered nothing to what was said....except accusations....you are a clown through and through

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3 minutes ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said:

watch me be james or one of the other guys

 

"omg what an idiot...you only agree with people that agree with you (which is no one but yourself")

 

Funny how you ignore my post....that “ah man” moment hurt that bad?

 

YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE CALLING PEOPLE AN IDIOT, NO ONE ELSE 

 

Would it be easier to read if I wrote it in crayon for you?

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3 minutes ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said:

still waiting to see where the first thing anyone told you was 'gfto u idiot".

 

you added nothing...or offered nothing to what was said....except accusations....you are a clown through and through

 

I quoted it many time you f(bad word)ing tool!!!!!!

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1 minute ago, jamesplante11 said:

 

Funny how you ignore my post....that “ah man” moment hurt that bad?

 

YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE CALLING PEOPLE AN IDIOT, NO ONE ELSE 

 

Would it be easier to read if I wrote it in crayon for you?

james....you are the guy that plays the opposite of anything i say or the complete opposite opinion always and then complain when i defend my position...LOL...you are worthless to me......im easy to find...mr portland maine...anytime u wanna talk football in person and tell me wickersham is right, in person, be my guest

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3 hours ago, Caveman_Nick said:

You?  Definitely plan B.

I thought Janene Garofolo was hilarious in Wet Hot American Summer.  Not sure why she is making Patriot fans more annoying than they were in the first place.

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46 minutes ago, Bobby Brown said:

I thought Janene Garofolo was hilarious in Wet Hot American Summer.  Not sure why she is making Patriot fans more annoying than they were in the first place.

I was just trying to save you the time and aggravation of coming to the same old conclusion, albeit more slowly :lol:

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5 hours ago, Bobby Brown said:

Is this thread worth reading or should I just continue to root against the Patriots?

 

 

Just keep rooting against the Cheatriots.  It's the only way to be sure.

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Not sure what the pissing match in this thread is all about but whoever forced him to the niners... THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!! 

 

:D

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21 hours ago, Dcat said:

 

1. NE thoroughly bungled its handling of Jimmy G and they will long regret it. Whatever internal struggles exist, they got nothing more than they paid as far as draft capital and they wasted an opportunity to have its next long-term franchise QB.  NE's mistake is the 49ers gain.

 

2. With respect to the second comment above, well what did you expect?  Pats fans rarely argue reasonably.  That fan base is a bizarre combination of the paranoid (from the litany of cheating events that Kraft, Belicheat and Brady have been accused of) to obnoxious arrogance. Good luck finding a sound voice of reason among that group, particularly the parade of band-wagon fans they cultivated in recent years.  It is pointless to debate anything with them because no matter what you say, they will insist that they are in the right and that you are just a "hater".  

fan of: Jets

 

LOL

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