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Brady Worked to Force Garrapolo Out of NE?

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26 minutes ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said:

fan of: Jets

 

LOL

 

I have a lot of respect for Jets fans. They are fans in spite of a less than stellar organization. It's easy to be a front-runner. Laugh at others all you want but you really come of like a condescending Dill Josh Gordon.

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2 minutes ago, Trojanmojo said:

 

I have a lot of respect for Jets fans. They are fans in spite of a less than stellar organization. It's easy to be a front-runner. Laugh at others all you want but you really come of like a condescending Dill Josh Gordon.

i was a fan of the patriots when they were less than stellar also....so am I cool now too? lol

 

I'm laughing because of his comments about patriots fans....most of us patriots feel the same about jets fans.....at least buffalo fans are funny jumping through tables and stuff while tailgating...they at least  make us laugh in intentional ways

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At the end of the day, most if the people arguing these points are either fans or haters, and rarely is either side reasonable.  Most folks just view the people they agree with as reasonable.

 

When someone wants to logically tackle the article of why the Pats could not keep Jimmt G, lmk.  A lot of the ridiculous conclusion people are trying to make here stems from the JG situation.  If anyone thinks Bill Belichick could not do the same match the reporter did, they are Loco!

 

He had to go.  Nobody forced it, ir was just reality and a football / business decision.  The only other viable answer was to trade Brady, which would be brand suicide.

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2 minutes ago, Caveman_Nick said:

At the end of the day, most if the people arguing these points are either fans or haters, and rarely is either side reasonable.  Most folks just view the people they agree with as reasonable.

 

When someone wants to logically tackle the article of why the Pats could not keep Jimmt G, lmk.  A lot of the ridiculous conclusion people are trying to make here stems from the JG situation.  If anyone thinks Bill Belichick could not do the same match the reporter did, they are Loco!

 

He had to go.  Nobody forced it, ir was just reality and a football / business decision.  The only other viable answer was to trade Brady, which would be brand suicide.

"bu bu but they could have gotten like 5 first rounders for him before the draft last year! belichick is a bum and bungled this horribly"

 

not realizing that belichick is smarter than most and was more than likely ok with all of this.......not that he is infallible with his personnel decisions but we have to give benefit of the doubt....no one really knows more about the value of draft capital than he....

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On Saturday, January 06, 2018 at 1:32 PM, forever in debt to mo lewis said:

good post man

 

lets take a look at a few scenarios and possibilites and see if they make sense

 

so lets say belichick is somehow available to coach elsehwere next year....i would tend to think every team in the NFL would fire their entire staff to sign him and let him put together a staff and take over? would most of you agree or disagree?

 

lets say belichick was as enamored with jimmy as some claim...and wanted to start over with him........the minute kraft walked in and demanded he trade garoppolo wouldnt u think that belichick knew that day he wanted out?  even if kraft said "i want you to move him before deadline..nothing less than a 2nd round pick".....why wouldnt he trade him to the giants? who have two 2nd rounders and were looking at a couple of high ones as they have denvers as well?

 

belichick "hey giants listen i want out of here...im getting out of here...ill do anything i have to to get out...get ready....wink wink heres jimmy for a 2nd rounder"...or the same to san fran......now envision he does like jimmy but decides he knows he has to trade him but only wants to send him to the NFC.....how many teams are his realistic option? cardinals? san fran? giants? maybe redskins?

 

do guys think he is angling to go to san fran and have them demote kyle shannahan to OC while belichick takes over everything else and defensive duties? and their gonna can lynch too? i havent heard anyone suggest that yet even though it would potentially jive with all the stuff were hearing now...since people think hes angling to  leave NE and loves jimmy.....

 

Opie....like ive said many times...i agree with what you said....how do you explain to the NE fanbase at the start of next year(not knowing what the result of this year will even be) that you sent away tom brady for a guy that has throwin 60 passes?  brady being a guy that just possibly won MVP....just possibly won a superbowl and has 2 superbowls in the previous 3 years? its absurd

 

i see alot of fans of the browns, chargers, etc in here talking like they know how they would obviously react....goudreau is the only guy in here chirping that is a fan of a team with a dynasty...now i dont know how old he is or how much, if any, of that actual dynasty he actually saw.....but i know what its like to be in the midst of a dynasty in my 20s and 30s....and im not willing to move on from brady right now for anything........it might be different if they hadnt won 2 out of the last 3 superbowls and he wasnt an MVP candidate....but thats absurd right now...i dont think many people grasp it because they arent actually living through it.........how would one sell that to the NE fanbase? a fanbase that , some, might pretend they wanted to keep jimmy but will bash you the minute brady wins somewhere else and jimmy does get it done(winning a SB).........brady isnt just a one time...two time SB champ......hes on the verge of creating a legacy that might never be topped or duplicated.....and i think somewhere in there belichick is reasonable enough to understand that as well....that he is also on the verge of that himself


 

On Saturday, January 06, 2018 at 2:52 PM, forever in debt to mo lewis said:

yer another idiot...just wanting to put words in my mouth you want to hear me say.....i never said either of those things

 

all i said was its easy for fans of teams who arent in the midst of a 17 year dynasty with a QB whos still playing at an MVP level to make judgements....hell your team aint ever seen a decent qb in its 2nd existence.....of course you are all about jimmy g....ur not thinking clearly...you would love to have him......you arent looking at it from the same place I am

 

i didnt say every team would fire their staff for the chance.....what i said was if belichick wanted out he knew this the day he was "allegedly forced" to trade jimmy....and a backdoor deal could have been worked...of course belichick is still under contract and something would have to be worked out....but if belichick wanted out he would have known the instant he was forced into anything and could have made that clear to the giants and even moved jimmy to them

 

you bring almost nothing to this discussion or debate except accusations that i automatically dismiss everyones opinion even though ive agreed with several people when i feel they make a decent point

 

Hmm that is exactly what you said in the bolded UNEDITED post above, but hey I knew you'd just attack me (and I stopped reading after you LIED).  So you know what, GUMMI BEAR and enjoy your Pats success and stop all the damn whining. I hope your Pats get totally embarrassed in the playoffs, even if it has to be the Steelers doing it and winning another SB in the process, it will be good to know that the Pats and their arrogant fans are crying/

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19 hours ago, Bobby Brown said:

Is this thread worth reading or should I just continue to root against the Patriots?

 

 

Iits mostly one arrogant Pats fan telling everybody else they're idiots because they don't agree with him. He also lies and posts long rants that are not worth reading, especially if he's going to lie and insult people.

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17 minutes ago, stevegrab said:


 

 

Hmm that is exactly what you said in the bolded UNEDITED post above, but hey I knew you'd just attack me (and I stopped reading after you LIED).  So you know what, GUMMI BEAR and enjoy your Pats success and stop all the damn whining. I hope your Pats get totally embarrassed in the playoffs, even if it has to be the Steelers doing it and winning another SB in the process, it will be good to know that the Pats and their arrogant fans are crying/

look at you desperately reaching to paint me as a liar.....I said what I said...and I stand by it.....

 

ive lost a superbowl or two before.......doesn't hurt nearly as bad as what you poor souls have to suffer through.....I wouldn't wish that on anyone! its nice to be perennial superbowl contenders!

 

keep patiently waiting to hope to see us "cry"...good luck sweetie

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I still disagree with the assertion that the Patriots "had to trade Jimmy G". It's certainly a difficult situation, knowing Brady has been the face of the franchise for 17 years now. But committing to him for another few years because he says he can play until he's 45? The Patriots were more or less in a no-win situation here because Garoppolo wouldn't sign an extension and Brady's ego couldn't handle the heir apparent anyway. It was clear the two wouldn't coexist beyond this year, and it's easier to sell out your future because you can't see it yet. So you keep Brady for 2018, maybe 2019 (depending on how well he is performing). But the Patriots certainly could have told Brady "thanks for everything, but we are moving on". Sometimes in a business, you have to make a difficult and unpopular decision in order to keep the business moving forward. I just don't think Kraft had the cojones to force Brady out, not did he likely have the confidence that Garoppolo would be the answer. But Kraft, as an owner, should be trusting football people here which is probably what Belichick takes issue with.

 

I guess all you can do is revisit this in 2020 and see how happy you are with the decision (if you are a Pats fan).  

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, MTSuper7 said:

I still disagree with the assertion that the Patriots "had to trade Jimmy G". It's certainly a difficult situation, knowing Brady has been the face of the franchise for 17 years now. But committing to him for another few years because he says he can play until he's 45? The Patriots were more or less in a no-win situation here because Garoppolo wouldn't sign an extension and Brady's ego couldn't handle the heir apparent anyway. It was clear the two wouldn't coexist beyond this year, and it's easier to sell out your future because you can't see it yet. So you keep Brady for 2018, maybe 2019 (depending on how well he is performing). But the Patriots certainly could have told Brady "thanks for everything, but we are moving on". Sometimes in a business, you have to make a difficult and unpopular decision in order to keep the business moving forward. I just don't think Kraft had the cojones to force Brady out, not did he likely have the confidence that Garoppolo would be the answer. But Kraft, as an owner, should be trusting football people here which is probably what Belichick takes issue with.

 

I guess all you can do is revisit this in 2020 and see how happy you are with the decision (if you are a Pats fan).  

as ive said before...it would be one thing if brady hadn't won 2 out of the last 3 superbowls.....hes still in the midst of writing a legacy that might never be topped or duplicated......you aren't moving on from him in the midst of what hes STILL doing.....brady isn't just a personality in new England....hes basically like a family member to most people here........you are possibly thinking about moving on from another 2 or so superbowl appearances for a "maybe" or "could be"? .....its not easy to do.......its near impossible to do.....when is the last time  you've seen a guy have the legacy brady has, coupled with the last 4 years hes had, being "moved on" from?

 

krafts statement to peter king back in oct after the trade said that belichick called HIM and asked for his blessing as the offer came up to belichick himself......that would def suggest that kraft trusts his football guys as he said "whatever you feel is best"...it also suggests that bill, even though he prob didn't HAVE TO, was asking for krafts blessing on it cause he knows what it possibly  means

Edited by forever in debt to mo lewis

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1 minute ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said:

as ive said before...it would be one thing if brady hadn't won 2 out of the last 3 superbowls.....hes still in the midst of writing a legacy that might never be topped or duplicated......you aren't moving on from him in the midst of what hes STILL doing.....brady isn't just a personality in new England....hes basically like a family member to most people here........you are possibly thinking about moving on from another 2 or so superbowl appearances for a "maybe" or "could be"? .....its not easy to do.......its near impossible to do.....when is the last time  you've seen a guy have the legacy brady has, coupled with the last 4 years hes had, being "moved on" from?

I've never. I still say that if you don't trust your football guys or your gut, you are in trouble long-term. From all accounts (granted, it's hard to know what's real vs. fake news), Belichick thought that Garoppolo was the future at QB and offered continuity for the offense (as much as could be possible moving on from Brady). I get why they traded Garoppolo - how do you voluntarily end Brady's career in NE when he is still performing at a high level? It doesn't make it the best move for the business long-term, but only time will tell. So I guess the Patriots draft a QB, spend the next year or two developing him, and hope he pans out once Brady steps down. In the meantime, it'll be fun to see how successful Garoppolo is in SF. The 2nd round price tag is still puzzling...

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2 minutes ago, MTSuper7 said:

I've never. I still say that if you don't trust your football guys or your gut, you are in trouble long-term. From all accounts (granted, it's hard to know what's real vs. fake news), Belichick thought that Garoppolo was the future at QB and offered continuity for the offense (as much as could be possible moving on from Brady). I get why they traded Garoppolo - how do you voluntarily end Brady's career in NE when he is still performing at a high level? It doesn't make it the best move for the business long-term, but only time will tell. So I guess the Patriots draft a QB, spend the next year or two developing him, and hope he pans out once Brady steps down. In the meantime, it'll be fun to see how successful Garoppolo is in SF. The 2nd round price tag is still puzzling...

it def will be fun to see what garappolo does in SF..im rooting for him definitely....could be a real nice turnaround there in SF and fast.....

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1 hour ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said:

look at you desperately reaching to paint me as a liar.....I said what I said...and I stand by it.....

 

ive lost a superbowl or two before.......doesn't hurt nearly as bad as what you poor souls have to suffer through.....I wouldn't wish that on anyone! its nice to be perennial superbowl contenders!

 

keep patiently waiting to hope to see us "cry"...good luck sweetie

 

Didn't paint you as a liar, I showed you ARE A LIAR, now you're just a fool to be ignored. Bye felicia

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2 minutes ago, stevegrab said:

 

Didn't paint you as a liar, I showed you ARE A LIAR, now you're just a fool to be ignored. Bye felicia

lol.....haha....whatever you say...enjoy life in brownsland praying for the patriots to lose so you can feel like you won!

 

I explained my position....and you two are reaching to call me a liar....but I realize you need small, insignifigant "victories" to make you feel good

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, MTSuper7 said:

I still disagree with the assertion that the Patriots "had to trade Jimmy G". It's certainly a difficult situation, knowing Brady has been the face of the franchise for 17 years now. But committing to him for another few years because he says he can play until he's 45? The Patriots were more or less in a no-win situation here because Garoppolo wouldn't sign an extension and Brady's ego couldn't handle the heir apparent anyway. It was clear the two wouldn't coexist beyond this year, and it's easier to sell out your future because you can't see it yet. So you keep Brady for 2018, maybe 2019 (depending on how well he is performing). But the Patriots certainly could have told Brady "thanks for everything, but we are moving on". Sometimes in a business, you have to make a difficult and unpopular decision in order to keep the business moving forward. I just don't think Kraft had the cojones to force Brady out, not did he likely have the confidence that Garoppolo would be the answer. But Kraft, as an owner, should be trusting football people here which is probably what Belichick takes issue with.

 

I guess all you can do is revisit this in 2020 and see how happy you are with the decision (if you are a Pats fan).  

Did you read the article?

 

EDIT:  here’s the barest excerpt...

Before they brought back or signed a single free agent, the Patriots would be $6 million over the salary cap if they franchised Garoppolo.”

Edited by Caveman_Nick

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2 hours ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said:

lol.....haha....whatever you say...enjoy life in brownsland praying for the patriots to lose so you can feel like you won!

 

I explained my position....and you two are reaching to call me a liar....but I realize you need small, insignifigant "victories" to make you feel good

 

Please show me where I have ever called you a liar, the only thing I have done is quote you.

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1 hour ago, Caveman_Nick said:

Did you read the article?

 

EDIT:  here’s the barest excerpt...

Before they brought back or signed a single free agent, the Patriots would be $6 million over the salary cap if they franchised Garoppolo.”

I did read the article.


A couple of thoughts ... First, there aren't ways to reduce your cap number? I haven't studied New England's payroll situation in my free time or anything, but we are talking about the future of your franchise here. If you think the guy has the goods, don't you try to keep him for one more year and figure out where to clear money from the books? Second, franchising Garoppolo wasn't their only option. It was pretty clear that Garoppolo wasn't interested in making backup money or waiting around for Brady to decide to hang 'em up. They could have decided that Garoppolo was actually a better investment over the next 3-5 years than whatever they could get out of Brady plus an unknown drafted QB after Brady retires. It would have been unpopular to release Brady after this season, regardless of whether or not NE makes it to or wins the SB. And in the end, protecting the brand won out. I can't blame the Patriots for siding with the short term sure thing in Brady over the long term could be in Garoppolo. But I get the feeling that Belichick, if given complete authority, would have found a way to hang onto Garoppolo. I mean, Belichick has been around professional football for a long, long time. I'm guessing he has a pretty good sense for when a player has "it". Like I said before, only time will tell if this was a long term mistake by New England.

 

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if you read it, you barely skimmed it.

In summary, your solution was to get rid of Tom Brady, after an MVP caliber season.

 

:rofl:

Stop.  Really.  Jimmy G might be able to tie Brady’s shoes someday. :rofl::rofl:

 

 

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@james...he's talking to Grabby.

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Posted (edited)

@forever in debt to mo lewis

 

I have never called you a liar, I have never said you were wrong...98% of the time in a debate not one person is “wrong” with their ideals (Taxes and arguments with my wife....I don’t even try to debate)

 

In the matter of Jimmy G being successful I think we can both agree we have to see more Professional football progress to check that box, and yeah he’s no Brady. 

 

In the the matter of NE getting return on investment, you think they did and I don’t. I think we are gonna just disagree on that one

 

The articles that are coming out, I think there’s something there. Probably not everything it’s claiming, but I believe there’s something. There might not be tho

 

I never called you an idiot on any of your ideals and I’d like the same respect, yes? Good glad we can move on. No? Alright we’re gonna continue to debate on things in the future either way

 

Brady is better than Garoppolo, Farve was better than Rodgers, and in some circles Montana is better than Young (I’m on the Montana end). I just wanna see them play each other, but that probably won’t happen unless SF makes the Super Bowl in the next two seasons. 

 

Enjoy your night Boss

Edited by jamesplante11
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5 hours ago, Caveman_Nick said:

if you read it, you barely skimmed it.

In summary, your solution was to get rid of Tom Brady, after an MVP caliber season.

 

:rofl:

Stop.  Really.  Jimmy G might be able to tie Brady’s shoes someday. :rofl::rofl:

 

 

 

You mean...the shoes Belichick tailored for him? :brow:  How do you know Jimmy G couldn't have performed as well as Brady this year in that offense?  MVP caliber I guess after Watson and Wentz went down :shrug: If you extrapolated his numbers, he would have put up better stats than Brady...in San Francisco. 

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10 hours ago, jamesplante11 said:

@forever in debt to mo lewis

 

I have never called you a liar, I have never said you were wrong...98% of the time in a debate not one person is “wrong” with their ideals (Taxes and arguments with my wife....I don’t even try to debate)

 

In the matter of Jimmy G being successful I think we can both agree we have to see more Professional football progress to check that box, and yeah he’s no Brady. 

 

In the the matter of NE getting return on investment, you think they did and I don’t. I think we are gonna just disagree on that one

 

The articles that are coming out, I think there’s something there. Probably not everything it’s claiming, but I believe there’s something. There might not be tho

 

I never called you an idiot on any of your ideals and I’d like the same respect, yes? Good glad we can move on. No? Alright we’re gonna continue to debate on things in the future either way

 

Brady is better than Garoppolo, Farve was better than Rodgers, and in some circles Montana is better than Young (I’m on the Montana end). I just wanna see them play each other, but that probably won’t happen unless SF makes the Super Bowl in the next two seasons. 

 

Enjoy your night Boss

we can totally agree to disagree on many things...its cool

 

if the article IS true ...we wont know for a little while anyway....so we will have to see how it all plays out

 

its all good james...were cool

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, kdko said:

 

 

You mean...the shoes Belichick tailored for him? :brow:  How do you know Jimmy G couldn't have performed as well as Brady this year in that offense?  MVP caliber I guess after Watson and Wentz went down :shrug: If you extrapolated his numbers, he would have put up better stats than Brady...in San Francisco. 

he also would have thrown double the amount of INTS that brady threw.....and when you are playing qbs that aren't trubisky, yates and mannion, that can actually capitalize on mistakes, those might come back to hurt you on more than one occasion....

 

its funny how you like to play "pretend" and discredit bradys MVP caliber season by  noting that Watson got hurt....but you will talk about jimmy #s and wins when he beat a tj yates lead Texans team....u think Houston aint scoring 27 points with a healthy Deshaun and beating SF? you also like to play pretend by saying "how do you know jimmy g couldn't have performed as well as brady".....we don't know...we don't know that he could have either.......we will never know.......there are always variables and a lot of "would have could haves" in sports......

 

would jimmy have thrown more tds than brady if we "pro rate" his stats over 16 games? also...how effective was jimmy gs running game? what was the career winning percentage of the qbs if he faced during that time?

Edited by forever in debt to mo lewis

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Both Brady and Jimmy G were extremely impressive this year.  It isn't necessary to choose one and criticize the other.  Brady received a PFF grade of 99.3 this year.  That is the highest grade in PFF's history.  It is even higher than the year he threw 50 touchdowns.  His play is especially impressive because his offensive line struggled at times.  It's also hard to argue with what Jimmy G accomplished.  Going 5-0 on a team that had gone 1-10 is extremely impressive.  2 of the 5 teams he faced were playoff-bound.  He wasn't statistically as impressive as Brady but he was playing on a 1-10 team with very little time to learn the playbook.  A couple extra interceptions was inevitable.  And I'm also sure that he would have done well if he had started for the Patriots this season.  If he can go 5-0 on a 1-10 team with little preparation, how do you think he'd do on the best team in football with 3 years of preparation?  Probably not quite as well as Brady.  But saying a player wouldn't have been as good as the best quarterback in NFL history isn't saying much.  One thing about Jimmy that I like is how he is confident but still down to earth.  A lot of the the great quarterbacks have had that dynamic.

 

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, michaelredd9 said:

Both Brady and Jimmy G were extremely impressive this year.  It isn't necessary to choose one and criticize the other.  Brady received a PFF grade of 99.3 this year.  That is the highest grade in PFF's history.  It is even higher than the year he threw 50 touchdowns.  His play is especially impressive because his offensive line struggled at times.  It's also hard to argue with what Jimmy G accomplished.  Going 5-0 on a team that had gone 1-10 is extremely impressive.  2 of the 5 teams he faced were playoff-bound.  He wasn't statistically as impressive as Brady but he was playing on a 1-10 team with very little time to learn the playbook.  A couple extra interceptions was inevitable.  And I'm also sure that he would have done well if he had started for the Patriots this season.  If he can go 5-0 on a 1-10 team with little preparation, how do you think he'd do on the best team in football with 3 years of preparation?  Probably not quite as well as Brady.  But saying a player wouldn't have been as good as the best quarterback in NFL history isn't saying much.  One thing about Jimmy that I like is how he is confident but still down to earth.  A lot of the the great quarterbacks have had that dynamic.

 

no one is saying that jimmy wasn't impressive or whatever else you could say to knock him

 

but when guys say "oh if you prorate his stats over a year, even in san fran, they are better than bradys"...its a bold claim......how do you prorate 7 tds and 5 ints through 5 games over a 16 game season and tell me its better than bradys 32 and 8? 2 of the teams were playoff bound but they caught one of them in week 17 with nothing to play for...didn't play their starter at qb or their all pro rb........most of jimmys int's weren't capitalized on either because the qbs opposite him are/were subpar.......the guy wants to say "well Deshaun got hurts otherwise brady had no shot at MVP"....but doesn't wanna apply that logic to jimmys 5-0 record......just pointing this stuff out

 

I'm rooting for jimmy just like everyone else....I think his future is bright for sure....I just think we need to pump the breaks just a hair before we put him in the HOF.....a lot of qbs have had early success, or some success, and have come back to earth.....

Edited by forever in debt to mo lewis

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I misspoke.  3 of the teams (Tenn, Jack, and LAR) were playoff bound.  But yes, week 17 against the Rams doesn't really count.  And the quarterbacks he played against maybe weren't elite.  But more importantly, the defenses he faced were good.  His stats can't compare to Brady's but I don't think it would have been possible to put up truly elite stats on such a ragtag team with so little preparation.  Just winning was impressive.  PFF gave Jimmy an overall grade of 85.2 which was 10th best in the league.  PFF also wrote this about Jimmy:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-jimmy-garoppolo-the-next-elite-qb

The 5-0 record, 28.8 points per game, and 8.8 yards per attempt are all obviously great, but almost every single advanced stat we have backs it up as being for real. 35.2 percent of his attempts this season were positively graded, by far the highest of any quarterback in the NFL. MVP candidates Carson Wentz and Tom Brady didn’t even crack 30 percent. He’s not simply living off a quick/short passing game either. Over his five starts, Garoppolo completed 63.2 percent of his passes in the intermediate range at 10.8 yards per attempt. That’s where the elite quarterbacks make their money, and Garoppolo is following that blueprint to a ‘T’.

 

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