kdko

Brady Worked to Force Garrapolo Out of NE?

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Just now, michaelredd9 said:

I wonder if Jimmy can dunk?

 

can he dunk with two hands though?

 

I'm not disputing jimmy....simply pointing out whats wrong with what kdko said.....he want to use Deshaun to knock brady down a peg but doesn't wanna apply Deshaun to jimmys life......im just pointing out a  few things about jimmys 5 game "reign of terror" on the league......I like him...a lot...I think good things are on the horizon....im not trying to dismiss him....just pointing some things out in the face of comments made

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10 hours ago, kdko said:

 

 

You mean...the shoes Belichick tailored for him? :brow:  How do you know Jimmy G couldn't have performed as well as Brady this year in that offense?  MVP caliber I guess after Watson and Wentz went down :shrug: If you extrapolated his numbers, he would have put up better stats than Brady...in San Francisco. 

Isn’t that the point though?  Brady is a clear GOAT.  Jimmy G has had a few games.  If you had to bet on one, are you saying you are laying your money on Jimmy?  Bill Belichick disagrees with you, FWIW.

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Maybe someday Jimmy G can be looked on as a great player.  I think he hs the potential, for sure.  That day just isn’t today.  On his 6.5 games of NFL experience, i am not sure how anyone can claim he is :shrug:

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52 minutes ago, Caveman_Nick said:

Isn’t that the point though?  Brady is a clear GOAT.  Jimmy G has had a few games.  If you had to bet on one, are you saying you are laying your money on Jimmy?  Bill Belichick disagrees with you, FWIW.

the bill simmons theory also seems to very plausible

 

that at age 40 brady is no longer relatable to his teammates the way he was when he started out......also probably no longer the first one there and last one to leave like the way he once was(tom has mentioned how hes had 17 years of experience and seen "pretty much anything you can throw at him" defensively....he also said the days where you could call what he does "overpreparing" have come to an end).....and jimmy is probably more relatabe to his lineman/teammates given his age and marital status....prob spends more time at the facility....and there may have been a bit of a s hift in the locker room towards jimmy and bill had to do something about it

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1 hour ago, Caveman_Nick said:

Isn’t that the point though?  Brady is a clear GOAT.  Jimmy G has had a few games.  If you had to bet on one, are you saying you are laying your money on Jimmy?  Bill Belichick disagrees with you, FWIW.

 

I've never denied that Brady is the GOAT, it'd be a fools errand to argue that, and i'm just playing devil's advocate here.  At this juncture of course not, yet I still think the Patriots would have been playoff bound, and that he would have been your QB for the foreseeable future.  How long is Brady gonna keep this up?

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3 minutes ago, jamesplante11 said:

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2018/01/how_cleveland_browns_were_froz.html

 

According to this article Cleveland was willing to offer up the Houston 1st rd pick, but two days prior they were told Jimmy G was unavailable.

yeah...not really new news....but I figured someone would mention it soon

 

like I said...if this wickersham stuff has legit legs to stand on we wont know for some time most likely

 

other potential possibilities

 

-belichick wanted to trade him somewhere where he could succeed....has been mentioned he is chummy with lynch and the shannahans...especially the elder

-belichick didn't want to trade him in the AFC

-belichick is not fond spending guaranteed money on high draft picks......in his career the highest they've drafted is Seymour at 6..mayo at 10 and ty warren at 13....now this notion of belichich not liking high picks began way back before the rookie pay scale and current CBA....but stil....a top 3-4 pick is getting around 28 mil guaranteed for 4 years with around 17-18 mil signing bonus....belichick has been criticized for moving guys before had to pay them amongst many other things..."being cheap".....I think he prefers an early 2nd round guy with a more sensible contract that doesn't breed animosity....given the 4th overall pick and the 2nd round pick would both be unproven..........sure theres the potential for a huge impact guy that high at 4...but the patriots have been getting along fine without picking guys that high

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8 minutes ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said:

yeah...not really new news....but I figured someone would mention it soon

 

like I said...if this wickersham stuff has legit legs to stand on we wont know for some time most likely

 

other potential possibilities

 

-belichick wanted to trade him somewhere where he could succeed....has been mentioned he is chummy with lynch and the shannahans...especially the elder

-belichick didn't want to trade him in the AFC

-belichick is not fond spending guaranteed money on high draft picks......in his career the highest they've drafted is Seymour at 6..mayo at 10 and ty warren at 13....now this notion of belichich not liking high picks began way back before the rookie pay scale and current CBA....but stil....a top 3-4 pick is getting around 28 mil guaranteed for 4 years with around 17-18 mil signing bonus....belichick has been criticized for moving guys before had to pay them amongst many other things..."being cheap".....I think he prefers an early 2nd round guy with a more sensible contract that doesn't breed animosity....given the 4th overall pick and the 2nd round pick would both be unproven..........sure theres the potential for a huge impact guy that high at 4...but the patriots have been getting along fine without picking guys that high

 

This is where my money has been since day 1

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1 hour ago, jamesplante11 said:

 

This is where my money has been since day 1

 

I think wanting him to succeed (goes to BB's legacy) and the Shanahan connection played a bigger role, the Browns were not going to be a threat to the Pats, trading him to Jacksonville or Denver would be dangerous, but the 4-44 over last 3 years Browns? By the time we sniff the playoffs BB will have retired.

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he doesnt neccessarily have to be looking at the next 2-3 years to make that call......it could be something hes thinking about the next 10 even if hes gone...if he believes in the guy that much.....some were speculating part of the reason he was "pissed" when "forced to trade him" was that he wanted to leave something for the organization and maybe his kids if they remain with the organization......so if thats to be believed its reasonable to think maybe even if he wasnt forced to trade him that the same reasoning could have played a factor in where he was trading him

 

you add barkley and garappolo....with gordon, coleman and njoku...and theres a nice cache of weapons.......the rams were able to turn things around real quick...from one of the most boring and terribles offenses to a playoff team(and they were trotting out a qb last year that helped take a team to the playoffs this year).... i still think cleveland would have too much of a deficiency on defense but its not out of the realm to think it could be pretty competitive 

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Yeah, rumors were swirling as soon as the trade happened that Belichick did it as a (possible) parting gift to Shanny.

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On 1/8/2018 at 5:18 PM, Caveman_Nick said:

if you read it, you barely skimmed it.

In summary, your solution was to get rid of Tom Brady, after an MVP caliber season.

 

:rofl:

Stop.  Really.  Jimmy G might be able to tie Brady’s shoes someday. :rofl::rofl:

 

 

 

Nobody compares to Brady, and I'm not saying Jimmy G is the next Brady. But he would have been the next face of the franchise if he stayed. Brady is going to be 41 next year, dude. Do you really buy into this "play until I'm 45" nonsense? He is going to fall off a cliff sooner than later. It's not unreasonable to consider moving on before that happens. And if Belichick really, truly thought Jimmy G had the "it" factor to be a really good, if not great, QB, then it's not out of the question to keep him and move on from Brady. If anything, Belichick might have the ego to want to prove that Brady isn't the primary reason for the long-term success of the franchise, and Jimmy G might have been his best opportunity to prove it. The fact that a mediocre QB like Matt Cassel went 11-5 in Brady's stead is reason to suspect that a truly good QB could duplicate the success that the team has had (note, I am not saying Brady's personal successes like his otherworldly TD:INT ratio, PFF rating, etc.). The fact that Brady has performed at this level for so long is unprecedented for a QB. So yeah, I don't think it is unreasonable to consider Brady the present of the franchise but not the future. I guess this stance is laughable?

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This is simple:

 

the team could not keep both players.

brady is still playing at an elite+ level.

they are trying to win championships.

You, in their position, would trade Brady.  I think that is laughable when comparing him to a guy who, at the time, had played 6 quarters and gone on IR.  Utterly, undeniably laughable.  Ludicrous.  Crazy.  Nuts.

 

 I don’t have a crystal ball,  Garoppolo might be the next Brady.  There is no way to know, and no way anyone looking out for the best interest of their team for 2017-2018 wouls make a different decision.  The argument for Garoppolo is/was an utter fantasy when the deal was made and even today with his 7TD to 5INT stat line.

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17 minutes ago, Caveman_Nick said:

There is no way to know, and no way anyone looking out for the best interest of their team for 2017-2018 wouls make a different decision. 

 

Unless you're the genius that is Belichick :shades:  Isn't he responsible for recognizing the talent in the 7th round pick of Brady?  Why did he spend a 2nd round pick on Garoppolo? 

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2 minutes ago, kdko said:

 

Unless you're the genius that is Belichick :shades:  Isn't he responsible for recognizing the talent in the 7th round pick of Brady?  Why did he spend a 2nd round pick on Garoppolo? 

scott pioli was also around when "they" picked brady...pioli used to tell a story about how he used to keep a framed picture of dave stachelski on his desk....if you dont know who that is he was the TE the patriots took in the 5th round( i believe they had three 6th rounders that year and brady was the last of the three)....he said he looked at it whenever someone mentioned how "smart" he was.....

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1 minute ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said:

scott pioli was also around when "they" picked brady...pioli used to tell a story about how he used to keep a framed picture of dave stachelski on his desk....if you dont know who that is he was the TE the patriots took in the 5th round( i believe they had three 6th rounders that year and brady was the last of the three)....he said he looked at it whenever someone mentioned how "smart" he was.....

 

When someone mentioned how smart Belichick was i'm assuming?  I think for the overwhelming amount of choices Belichick has made right over the years, he's allowed to whiff on some picks.  Kind of an odd thing for someone to keep around for the 'A-Ha! moment.

 

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1 minute ago, kdko said:

 

 

When someone mentioned how smart Belichick was i'm assuming?  I think for the overwhelming amount of choices Belichick has made right over the years, he's allowed to whiff on some picks.  Kind of an odd thing for someone to keep around for the 'A-Ha! moment.

 

no...when people mentioned how smart HE was......

 

ya...everyone is allowed to whiff on some picks/moves...and if you look at belichicks history here in NE he has quite a few......there was a time where people started to wonder if holding both positions was a little too much for him ......hes def not infallible when it comess to some of his personnel moves...although nobody is close to 100 percent so its understanable

 

belichick and co also spent a 3rd rounder on a guy named kevin o'connell once......that guy didnt pan out too well....everyone was all giddy about ryan mallett too at one point.....he aint nothing special and is just a backup.....

 

i like jimmy....i dont wanna keep repating it....but some of you talk as if hes a surefire lock to make multiple all pro teams and the HOF or something

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30 minutes ago, kdko said:

 

Unless you're the genius that is Belichick :shades:  Isn't he responsible for recognizing the talent in the 7th round pick of Brady?  Why did he spend a 2nd round pick on Garoppolo? 

Belichick is a great coach, but if he knew how good Brady was he would have taken the player in round 1, trading uo to get him.

 

Nope, his crystal ball is also broken.  But, he knew enough to sit and trade Drew for Tom.  In this case he made a different choice.  Maybe that is the history you should be looking to...?

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2 minutes ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said:

no...when people mentioned how smart HE was......

 

ya...everyone is allowed to whiff on some picks/moves...and if you look at belichicks history here in NE he has quite a few......there was a time where people started to wonder if holding both positions was a little too much for him ......hes def not infallible when it comess to some of his personnel moves...although nobody is close to 100 percent so its understanable

 

belichick and co also spent a 3rd rounder on a guy named kevin o'connell once......that guy didnt pan out too well....everyone was all giddy about ryan mallett too at one point.....he aint nothing special and is just a backup.....

 

i like jimmy....i dont wanna keep repating it....but some of you talk as if hes a surefire lock to make multiple all pro teams and the HOF or something

 

Ahhhh, I gotcha.  And I don't think that's what some of us have been saying, just that at some point you have to make the conscious choice to pass the torch on, and there are a myriad of factors that play into that, e.g:  salary cap, timing, etc.  And the fact that letting Garoppolo go must have been caused some inner turmoil amongst the brass.

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6 minutes ago, Caveman_Nick said:

Belichick is a great coach, but if he knew how good Brady was he would have taken the player in round 1, trading uo to get him.

 

Nope, his crystal ball is also broken.  But, he knew enough to sit and trade Drew for Tom.  In this case he made a different choice.  Maybe that is the history you should be looking to...?

 

I agree with you on that.  Brady was also regarded pretty lightly coming out of college, maybe Belichick knew he could snag him later since he was gathering little interest.  Risky gamble if you're high on someone, but.. the genius!

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2 minutes ago, kdko said:

 

Ahhhh, I gotcha.  And I don't think that's what some of us have been saying, just that at some point you have to make the conscious choice to pass the torch on, and there are a myriad of factors that play into that, e.g:  salary cap, timing, etc.  And the fact that letting Garoppolo go must have been caused some inner turmoil amongst the brass.

like ive said before a few times....its easy for alot of you guys to say "pass the torch" or "eventually its gonna end probably real soon" for guys that havent been following this team your entire lives....and been a part of the last 17 year run.......it would be one thing if brady wasnt looking at an MVP award and having won 2 out of the last 3 superbowls......it might be a different story....but brady is still in the midst of adding to the greatest legacy in NFL history........the timing for garapollo was just off here in new england......i really  dont think it caused much turmoil because i think everyone sort of understand what i was saying......if things had turned out differently for brady in the last 3 years it very well could have been a changing of the guard already or coming up this offseason.....

 

it would be insane to move on from brady in the offseason...especially when we dont know how this year will end.....and you would have risked getting nothing for garappolo....the timing was just way off......belichick might very well love garappolo...but cooler head prevailed....belichicks and bradys legacies are tied to each other....even belichick realizes it....all this "belichick wants to win with another qb to prove hes more important" stuff is nonsense....belichick knows what brady means to this organization and region of the country....he may have a real soft spot for jimmy and feel a bit of sadness that he never got to see it through with him....but at the end of the day he knows what tom is....timing just wasnt right

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You’re wasting your keystrokes.  They don’t get it.  They don’t get that Bill’s choices are always a mix of how can i look to the future without taking away my chance to win now.  That’s how he has operated for 17 years, and I’d be shocked if he changed his MO now.

What’s best for the football team is up for interpretation, of course.  Personally ai think the organization has earned Ny benefit of the doubt, especially if the doubt is arguing why you should have traded TB12.

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1 minute ago, Caveman_Nick said:

You’re wasting your keystrokes.  They don’t get it.  They don’t get that Bill’s choices are always a mix of how can i look to the future without taking away my chance to win now.  That’s how he has operated for 17 years, and I’d be shocked if he changed his MO now.

What’s best for the football team is up for interpretation, of course.  Personally ai think the organization has earned Ny benefit of the doubt, especially if the doubt is arguing why you should have traded TB12.

i think alot of these guys are having a hard time understanding it from our, and the organizations, perspective.......

 

like if phillip rivers had tom bradys resume.....and expressed his desire to continue playing.....they wouldnt even consider, for a second, replacing him for a guy with 60 something career pass attempts.....

 

i think at the end of the day the chance to cement an untoppable legacy for both brady and belichick trumps anything and is the prevailing theme....i dont think either of these guys is eager to try and prove they are bigger than the other

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3 hours ago, MTSuper7 said:

 

Nobody compares to Brady, and I'm not saying Jimmy G is the next Brady. But he would have been the next face of the franchise if he stayed. Brady is going to be 41 next year, dude. Do you really buy into this "play until I'm 45" nonsense? He is going to fall off a cliff sooner than later. It's not unreasonable to consider moving on before that happens. And if Belichick really, truly thought Jimmy G had the "it" factor to be a really good, if not great, QB, then it's not out of the question to keep him and move on from Brady. If anything, Belichick might have the ego to want to prove that Brady isn't the primary reason for the long-term success of the franchise, and Jimmy G might have been his best opportunity to prove it. The fact that a mediocre QB like Matt Cassel went 11-5 in Brady's stead is reason to suspect that a truly good QB could duplicate the success that the team has had (note, I am not saying Brady's personal successes like his otherworldly TD:INT ratio, PFF rating, etc.). The fact that Brady has performed at this level for so long is unprecedented for a QB. So yeah, I don't think it is unreasonable to consider Brady the present of the franchise but not the future. I guess this stance is laughable?

 

Well said, I've thought that too. Also the fact that Cassell basically sucked as the Chiefs starter is pretty clear indication a lot of his success was the Pats system and supporting cast (defense is also a huge part of it, while they may not always be ranked high they seem to know how to win the big games).

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