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Brady Worked to Force Garrapolo Out of NE?

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you guys do realize that the supporting cast cassel had was pretty much the same one that brady left with a lead on the cusp of going 19-0 and broke the td record with right?

 

if belichick thought the pats system was the main catalyst behind the teams success and bradys success i doubt he would have gone out of his way to call him the best to ever do it

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32 minutes ago, Caveman_Nick said:

You’re wasting your keystrokes.  They don’t get it.  They don’t get that Bill’s choices are always a mix of how can i look to the future without taking away my chance to win now.  That’s how he has operated for 17 years, and I’d be shocked if he changed his MO now.

What’s best for the football team is up for interpretation, of course.  Personally ai think the organization has earned Ny benefit of the doubt, especially if the doubt is arguing why you should have traded TB12.

 

It's hard not to view you guys as being smug eliteists with comments like this. That being said, I prefer to keep the conversation civil.

 

1 hour ago, Caveman_Nick said:

This is simple:

 

the team could not keep both players.

brady is still playing at an elite+ level.

they are trying to win championships.

You, in their position, would trade Brady.  I think that is laughable when comparing him to a guy who, at the time, had played 6 quarters and gone on IR.  Utterly, undeniably laughable.  Ludicrous.  Crazy.  Nuts.

 

 I don’t have a crystal ball,  Garoppolo might be the next Brady.  There is no way to know, and no way anyone looking out for the best interest of their team for 2017-2018 wouls make a different decision.  The argument for Garoppolo is/was an utter fantasy when the deal was made and even today with his 7TD to 5INT stat line.

 

First, trading Brady would have been brand suicide if they did so during the season. I don't recall saying they had to trade Brady during this season, but maybe I did in a moment of idiocy. Trading him is a pretty big challenge considering he is closer to an AARP card than his days at Michigan (I live in Ann Arbor and have followed this guy's career since he was here). I'd guess that he might have no-trade clause verbiage in his contract, for starters. I don't know for sure, but it wouldn't be surprising if he did. Regardless, I think there is a certain level of emotional nut-huggery of Brady going on here. Nobody seems to care that Brady is certain to begin his descent as soon as next year (heck, maybe even this postseason). I guess it's going to be Marino all over again here... Let the guy play until he throws 6 INTs against the Jaguars in a first round playoff dud. 

 

In the short term, it does look crazy to consider trading or cutting Brady, especially if the Pats win the SB again. We will never know how well Garoppolo would have done as the next face of the Patriots. But if I own the team, and my head coach doesn't want to trade the backup QB who has been groomed to take over the reins, I'm not sure it's a savvy business move to side with the almost 41-year-old franchise QB. Come on... NFL franchises are money makers, and the Patriots would easily survive the decision. People go insane over Brady because he's the GOAT and has all the rings. But QB is the single hardest position to find out there, so you're really rolling the dice by hoping to groom someone else to take over. I guess enjoy your run this year, maybe next if Brady stays elite. It's easy to take the sure thing for the next 2 years compared to the "might be great" for the next 10-12. There's certainly a much better chance that Brady falls off a cliff by 2019 than Garoppolo being a bust / lower quality NFL starter. 

 

Fun discussion. If I'm insane, I guess I'll embrace it. :D

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3 minutes ago, MTSuper7 said:

 

It's hard not to view you guys as being smug eliteists with comments like this. That being said, I prefer to keep the conversation civil.

 

 

First, trading Brady would have been brand suicide if they did so during the season. I don't recall saying they had to trade Brady during this season, but maybe I did in a moment of idiocy. Trading him is a pretty big challenge considering he is closer to an AARP card than his days at Michigan (I live in Ann Arbor and have followed this guy's career since he was here). I'd guess that he might have no-trade clause verbiage in his contract, for starters. I don't know for sure, but it wouldn't be surprising if he did. Regardless, I think there is a certain level of emotional nut-huggery of Brady going on here. Nobody seems to care that Brady is certain to begin his descent as soon as next year (heck, maybe even this postseason). I guess it's going to be Marino all over again here... Let the guy play until he throws 6 INTs against the Jaguars in a first round playoff dud. 

 

In the short term, it does look crazy to consider trading or cutting Brady, especially if the Pats win the SB again. We will never know how well Garoppolo would have done as the next face of the Patriots. But if I own the team, and my head coach doesn't want to trade the backup QB who has been groomed to take over the reins, I'm not sure it's a savvy business move to side with the almost 41-year-old franchise QB. Come on... NFL franchises are money makers, and the Patriots would easily survive the decision. People go insane over Brady because he's the GOAT and has all the rings. But QB is the single hardest position to find out there, so you're really rolling the dice by hoping to groom someone else to take over. I guess enjoy your run this year, maybe next if Brady stays elite. It's easy to take the sure thing for the next 2 years compared to the "might be great" for the next 10-12. There's certainly a much better chance that Brady falls off a cliff by 2019 than Garoppolo being a bust / lower quality NFL starter. 

 

Fun discussion. If I'm insane, I guess I'll embrace it. :D

It is not smug or elitism.  It’s recognition of a hater stance, pure and simple.

 

 Not one person in this whole thread has presented a viable alternative to the actions taken by the franchise.  Trade Brady?  Nope, for many reason.  Keep both?  Untenable.  Can’t be done financially without taking the rest of the team to the toilet, which they will never do.  Hold out for more for Jimmy G?  What if you can’t get more?  Rumors that some team would have given XYZ more are just media junk.  Has any team released a statement that they would have given much more?

 

If any team had made a better offer to the Pats at any time, the league would be going bonkers trying to stick collusion charges up the Pat’s keister.  There is no way “Team B” wouldn’t have filed a grievance with the league.  We all know this.  The whole argument is just dumb, IMO.

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7 minutes ago, MTSuper7 said:

 

It's hard not to view you guys as being smug eliteists with comments like this. That being said, I prefer to keep the conversation civil.

 

 

First, trading Brady would have been brand suicide if they did so during the season. I don't recall saying they had to trade Brady during this season, but maybe I did in a moment of idiocy. Trading him is a pretty big challenge considering he is closer to an AARP card than his days at Michigan (I live in Ann Arbor and have followed this guy's career since he was here). I'd guess that he might have no-trade clause verbiage in his contract, for starters. I don't know for sure, but it wouldn't be surprising if he did. Regardless, I think there is a certain level of emotional nut-huggery of Brady going on here. Nobody seems to care that Brady is certain to begin his descent as soon as next year (heck, maybe even this postseason). I guess it's going to be Marino all over again here... Let the guy play until he throws 6 INTs against the Jaguars in a first round playoff dud. 

 

In the short term, it does look crazy to consider trading or cutting Brady, especially if the Pats win the SB again. We will never know how well Garoppolo would have done as the next face of the Patriots. But if I own the team, and my head coach doesn't want to trade the backup QB who has been groomed to take over the reins, I'm not sure it's a savvy business move to side with the almost 41-year-old franchise QB. Come on... NFL franchises are money makers, and the Patriots would easily survive the decision. People go insane over Brady because he's the GOAT and has all the rings. But QB is the single hardest position to find out there, so you're really rolling the dice by hoping to groom someone else to take over. I guess enjoy your run this year, maybe next if Brady stays elite. It's easy to take the sure thing for the next 2 years compared to the "might be great" for the next 10-12. There's certainly a much better chance that Brady falls off a cliff by 2019 than Garoppolo being a bust / lower quality NFL starter. 

 

Fun discussion. If I'm insane, I guess I'll embrace it. :D

theres definitley a level of "emotional nut huggery ofr brady" going on here...and like i said...until you can stand in our shoes you wouldnt understand.........it can never be marino all over again because marino didnt win 2 out of 3 superbowl in the twilight of his career.....did marino come close to winning an MVP in his last two full years? its not comparible.....brady put on one of the best 2nd halfs in SB history and then led the greatest comeback probably in sports history....and is on the cusp of winning an MVP and maybe another SB! it can never be comparible.......this is what you guys seem to be missing and what he means when he says "these guys dont get it"

 

you guys are looking at it from a completely different perspective than someone who has been in throes of it for 17 years......you keep talking about the end and you are acting like brady threw for 3200 yards with 22 tds and 14 ints and has never won a superbowl....it has nothing to do with being "smug elitists".....you just cant actually see things from the same perspective...its impossible.......and its apparent because you are bringing up marino

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6 minutes ago, Caveman_Nick said:

It is not smug or elitism.  It’s recognition of a hater stance, pure and simple.

 

 Not one person in this whole thread has presented a viable alternative to the actions taken by the franchise.  Trade Brady?  Nope, for many reason.  Keep both?  Untenable.  Can’t be done financially without taking the rest of the team to the toilet, which they will never do.  Hold out for more for Jimmy G?  What if you can’t get more?  Rumors that some team would have given XYZ more are just media junk.  Has any team released a statement that they would have given much more?

 

If any team had made a better offer to the Pats at any time, the league would be going bonkers trying to stick collusion charges up the Pat’s keister.  There is no way “Team B” wouldn’t have filed a grievance with the league.  We all know this.  The whole argument is just dumb, IMO.

its easy to say, after jimmy goes out and looks good through 5 games, to say "oh we would have given up more" and sell it to the browns fanbase that they were high on the kid.....it reminds me of bill polian years later saying "oh we actuallly had a 1st round grade on brady but we werent in the market for a qb".....such a ridiculous statement......and easy to say after the fact.....

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14 hours ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said:

theres definitley a level of "emotional nut huggery ofr brady" going on here...and like i said...until you can stand in our shoes you wouldnt understand.........it can never be marino all over again because marino didnt win 2 out of 3 superbowl in the twilight of his career.....did marino come close to winning an MVP in his last two full years? its not comparible.....brady put on one of the best 2nd halfs in SB history and then led the greatest comeback probably in sports history....and is on the cusp of winning an MVP and maybe another SB! it can never be comparible.......this is what you guys seem to be missing and what he means when he says "these guys dont get it"

 

you guys are looking at it from a completely different perspective than someone who has been in throes of it for 17 years......you keep talking about the end and you are acting like brady threw for 3200 yards with 22 tds and 14 ints and has never won a superbowl....it has nothing to do with being "smug elitists".....you just cant actually see things from the same perspective...its impossible.......and its apparent because you are bringing up marino

Kudos for a well explained comment without any name calling, no sarcasm when i say that  and i agree with everything you said here ( safe the falcons blew that as much as brady made a come back but he certainly took advantage of the opportunity not many would have)

 

one of my best friends is a lifelong pats fan and the way he explained it to me in terms of "Nut Huggery" is that if it came down to following the Pats or Following Brady on another team, he had no shame in saying he would cheer for Tom even on the Browns until he retired then and only then would he go back to the Pats.. does that make him an untrue die hard ? I dont think so, i think it just speaks volumes to what tom means to not only the franchise but the fans and the NE region. 

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I think most Pats fans would feel the same way....unless he went to the Jets :lol:

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37 minutes ago, Gourdeau said:

Kudos for a well explained comment without any name calling, no sarcasm when i say that  and i agree with everything you said here ( safe the falcons blew that as much as brady made a come back but he certainly took advantage of the opportunity not many would have)

 

one of my best friends is a lifelong pats fan and the way he explained it to me in terms of "Nut Huggery" is that if it came down to following the Pats or Following Brady on another team, he had no shame in saying he would cheer for Tom even on the Browns until he retired then and only then would he go back to the Pats.. does that make him an untrue die hard ? I dont think so, i think it just speaks volumes to what tom means to not only the franchise but the fans and the NE region. 

falcs def blew it but you have to capitalize...he still made some real tough throws and had a bit of luck....

 

like I said earlier....brady isn't just a personality in the region of new England....to most hes like a family member

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Yeah I gotcha.  It would virtually be impossible to let Brady go at anytime really.  As a matter of fact, I'll bet exactly the opposite happens.  Of course he's playing at a ridiculous level now.  Could still be there for a few more years.  When the wheels fall off though, I'll bet he continues to remain the guy because of his past success.  Probably longer than he should even when he starts throwing picks all day.  He really has earned the right to play and start as long as he wants.  Even more than Favre ever earned that right.  I just don't see anyone moving him or releasing him from the Pats.........ever!!!  

 

That's not to say that the Garrapolo trade doesn't end up being a bad move.  Given the situation though, the Pats had no choice and did what any franchise would do in the same situation.  Brady stays........period.

Edited by NAUgrad

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16 minutes ago, NAUgrad said:

That's not to say that the Garrapolo trade doesn't end up being a bad move.  Given the situation though, the Pats had no choice and did what any franchise would do in the same situation.  Brady stays........period.

 

One of the biggest knocks in sports is lack of loyalty so I guess we should credit the organization for remaining loyal to Brady, not that hes given them any reason to throw him away but the pats are notorious for releasing players before its too late so to speak. 

 

 

1 hour ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said:

falcs def blew it but you have to capitalize...he still made some real tough throws and had a bit of luck....

 

like I said earlier....brady isn't just a personality in the region of new England....to most hes like a family member

 

Yeah they did but like I say not many if any QBs would have had the mental toughness to take advantage of that and make it happen 

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9 minutes ago, Caveman_Nick said:

:unsure:  where did all of these reasonable people come from?

 

Well most were shouted away if they had a differing opinion, even if it was a reasonable one.  Plus the topic has shifted from the original posted ESPN article and other things to how Pats fans view and value Brady, which was never a debated topic. 

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38 minutes ago, Gourdeau said:

 

One of the biggest knocks in sports is lack of loyalty so I guess we should credit the organization for remaining loyal to Brady, not that hes given them any reason to throw him away but the pats are notorious for releasing players before its too late so to speak. 

 

 

 

Yeah they did but like I say not many if any QBs would have had the mental toughness to take advantage of that and make it happen 

every team that wins a superbowl benefits, at some point, from some luck and some boneheaded mistakes from an opponent.....putting together a SB season takes a tremendous amount of good fortune

 

even some of the throws brady made in the 2nd half...obviously the Edelman catch was a lot of good fortune....but the 3rd down to Hogan deep in his own territory was basically a throw I don't think many could make...he doesn't make that and its likely game over....how many qbs u think can make that throw under that kind of pressure?

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On 1/8/2018 at 10:17 AM, forever in debt to mo lewis said:

fan of: Jets

 

LOL

 

thank you for so aptly demonstrating my point.  You fit right in with my description.  You couldn't have done a better job of validating what I wrote if you even tried.  

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12 minutes ago, Dcat said:

 

thank you for so aptly demonstrating my point.  You fit right in with my description.  You couldn't have done a better job of validating what I wrote if you even tried.  

yeah...cause I'm supposed to take the opinions of jets and dolphins fans seriously...like you guys will look at the situation through the lense of a patriots fan or unbiasedley

 

no patriots fan is taking an anti pats stance by a jets or dolphins seriously

Edited by forever in debt to mo lewis

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8 minutes ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said:

yeah...cause I'm supposed to take the opinions of jets and dolphins fans seriously...like you guys will look at the situation through the lense of a patriots fan or unbiasedley

 

no patriots fan is taking an anti pats stance by a jets or dolphins seriously

 

bravo!  Another validation of my post.  The ol' "if you are not a pats fan, or worse, if you are the fan of another AFC East team, you can't be objective routine".  You illustrate my point beautifully.  Thank you a second time!

Edited by Dcat

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heres the great Dcat's hot take from earlier

 

1. NE thoroughly bungled its handling of Jimmy G and they will long regret it. Whatever internal struggles exist, they got nothing more than they paid as far as draft capital and they wasted an opportunity to have its next long-term franchise QB.  NE's mistake is the 49ers gain.

 

2. With respect to the second comment above, well what did you expect?  Pats fans rarely argue reasonably.  That fan base is a bizarre combination of the paranoid (from the litany of cheating events that Kraft, Belicheat and Brady have been accused of) to obnoxious arrogance. Good luck finding a sound voice of reason among that group, particularly the parade of band-wagon fans they cultivated in recent years.  It is pointless to debate anything with them because no matter what you say, they will insist that they are in the right and that you are just a "hater".  

Edited Sunday at 12:49 PM by Dcat  

 

but hey....im the one with the problem....I guess I must be one of the bandwagon guys that cultivated in recent years? calling a guy "belichceat" but you are so reasonable and unbiased! LOL

 

were really gonna regret it if brady wins another superbowl and cements a legacy that isn't likely to be topped! we will really regret it! hey good luck with Christian hackenberg though!!!

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Just now, Dcat said:

 

bravo!  Another validation of my post.  The ol' "if you are not a pats fan, or worse, if you are the fan of another AFC East team, you can't be objective routine".  You illustrate my point beautifully.  Thank you a second time!

this is probably the only time/place you've ever felt validated huh?

 

I just reposted your first post....you sounded real "objective"...LOL

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1 minute ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said:

this is probably the only time/place you've ever felt validated huh?

 

I just reposted your first post....you sounded real "objective"...LOL

 

As typical... Pats fans resorting to personal insults when ppl don't agree with them. You are ever so predictable. 

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its alright dcat....if my team had drafted geno smith, Bryce petty and Christian hackenberg id think THE franchise in my division, -lists all patriots credentials over last 17 years, made a HUGE mistake by trading away a guy with 60 career pass attempts for a legend who is still performing at a crazy level

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^^

you happier now? I insulted the football team which you root for rather than you personally(how someone can call an insult personal when I don't know your name, face or anything about you is crazy itself)....did you see that one coming too? or did I throw you off.....

 

your opinion that the patriots "bungled" this whole situation is completely irrelevant....although I should say it would appear as though "bungling" qb situations might be an area of expertise for you

 

lol@clowns who want to be viewed as objective and unbiased but call belichick "belicheat" in their 1st post......you wanted obnoxious and arrogant "pats fan"...well here you go chief

Edited by forever in debt to mo lewis

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13 minutes ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said:

^^

you happier now? I insulted the football team which you root for rather than you personally(how someone can call an insult personal when I don't know your name, face or anything about you is crazy itself)....did you see that one coming too? or did I throw you off.....

 

your opinion that the patriots "bungled" this whole situation is completely irrelevant....although I should say it would appear as though "bungling" qb situations might be an area of expertise for you

 

again... utterly predictable.  Amateur!  :)

And yes, the Pats got zero benefit from trading Jimmy G for no more draft capital then they used to get him. He should have been the Pats QB of the future, but it seems egos got in the way a bit up there.  Anyway, good luck to you.

 

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24 minutes ago, Dcat said:

 

again... utterly predictable.  Amateur!  :)

And yes, the Pats got zero benefit from trading Jimmy G for no more draft capital then they used to get him. He should have been the Pats QB of the future, but it seems egos got in the way a bit up there.  Anyway, good luck to you.

 

predicatably "I'm not the one who needs the luck"

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3 minutes ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said:

predicatably "I'm not the one who needs the luck"

 

nice.  No wonder so many people despise Pats fans.  You guys bring it on yourselves and it is well deserved.

Again, good luck to you.  Peace and out.

  • Haha 1

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1 hour ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said:

yeah...cause I'm supposed to take the opinions of jets and dolphins fans seriously...like you guys will look at the situation through the lense of a patriots fan or unbiasedley

 

no patriots fan is taking an anti pats stance by a jets or dolphins seriously

 

Bored this morning so I'll bite.  Please show me where I have taken an anti-patriots stance or made a biased comment due to being a Dolphins fan. 

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