LordOpie

Is Tom Brady the GOAT of all sports?

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1 hour ago, Caveman_Nick said:

Isn’t the argument against Brady the same as you would make against Rice?

played with Montana and Young with much better talent around him

played for Walsh, Siefert, Marriucci, and Gruden.

 

Mind you, I am not arguing for Tom or against Rice, i think both are the best at what they did, and my opinion is that the OP presents an unanswerable question. The logic you are using is flawed as a case for Rice,though.  IMO.

Which one of those four coaches that Rice played for were GOAT? Maybe Walsh for a short time had that title.

 

That he did it with multiple different QBs, different coaches, on different teams says more about him being great (IMHO).  If BB retired 5 years ago, and now Brady had this same success, then I'd say "It was more Brady than BB" and give him more credit.

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43 minutes ago, tazinib1 said:

 

 

 

No

LMAO Not Gay

Hell no

 

I met him in a lobby of a condominium building in Bevery Hills while loading gear for a shoot. He stopped me and asked me if we needed any actors and tried to shake my hand. Meanwhile I'm standing there with arms full of gear looking at him thinking "Yeah my hands are full you creepy f#ck I'm not gonna drop this gear to shake your greasy, STD rilled paws".... grossest encounter I've ever had in the business.

 

JORDAN!!!!!

 

Sounds like your impression of him was formed long before your personal encounter. I have no idea who the guy is, but that encounter sounds harmless (other than him trying to shake hands with somebody who's hands are full).

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30 minutes ago, NAUgrad said:

The problem I have with the best in any sport is that when Brady was out the Patriots still won.

I have hears this argument over and over, and it’s nonsense.

 

let’s start with the division.  They okayed six games against the Dolphins, Jets, and Bills.

 

The roster was pretty talented, with a great o-line, moss and welker at wr, a perenially good running game, the best d-line in football, Mayo, Brabel and Mayo at LB, and a decent secondary anchored by Rodney Harrison.  There was enough talent there to win some games.

Week 1: beat the Chiefs

Week 2: beat the Jets

week 3: lost to Dolphins

week 4 bye

week 5: beat 49ers

week 6: lost to Chargers

week 7: spanked the Broncos (surprisingly....looks like a trap game)

week 8: beat Rams

week 9: lost Colts

week 10: Beat bills

week 11: Lost Jets

week 12: Beat Dolphins

week 13: lost Steelers

week 14: Beat Seahawks

week 15: Beat Raiders

week 16: beat Cardinals

week 17: beat Bills

scored 410 points, game up 309

they went 4-0 against a weak NFC west, 4-2 against a weak AFC east, and went 3-3 against the rest of the AFC.

Compare that performance to 2007, where they scored 589 points and gave up 275, to 2009 when Brady was not himself, scoring 427 and giving up 285, and 2010, back to the old brady, scoring 513 and giving up 313.

 

Brady made a huge difference.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, stevegrab said:

Which one of those four coaches that Rice played for were GOAT? Maybe Walsh for a short time had that title.

 

That he did it with multiple different QBs, different coaches, on different teams says more about him being great (IMHO).  If BB retired 5 years ago, and now Brady had this same success, then I'd say "It was more Brady than BB" and give him more credit.

Umm....Walsh ans Montana were the GOATs until recently... :shrug:

 

Young is HOF...

the other coaches all were considered very good coaches.  There was no slouch around Rice, and he even had the chance to pair up with Tim Brown late in his career.

 

turning that reply around, what player had Brady had on the field playing with him who was a GOAT?

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7 minutes ago, stevegrab said:

 

Sounds like your impression of him was formed long before your personal encounter. I have no idea who the guy is, but that encounter sounds harmless (other than him trying to shake hands with somebody who's hands are full).

 

Perhaps it was and ya know what? I have no problem with that at all. 

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26 minutes ago, Caveman_Nick said:

Umm....Walsh ans Montana were the GOATs until recently... :shrug:

 

Young is HOF...

the other coaches all were considered very good coaches.  There was no slouch around Rice, and he even had the chance to pair up with Tim Brown late in his career.

 

turning that reply around, what player had Brady had on the field playing with him who was a GOAT?

 

Really no other great coaches since Walsh to challenge for GOAT, until BB?  I've not heard him being given that kind of praise. Montana while great has had several great QBs go through the league since that were not so far behind (Elway, Peyton). Yes Young is in the HOF, which is not same as GOAT, some guys in the HOF were not even the best at their position when they played.

 

I know I'm unlikely to convince a Pats fan that Brady and BB are not BOTH GOAT. Don't really care. Somebody asked, I've offered my opinion along with several extra explanations.

 

I could have simply said NO and never said much more.

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43 minutes ago, stevegrab said:

 

Really no other great coaches since Walsh to challenge for GOAT, until BB?  I've not heard him being given that kind of praise. Montana while great has had several great QBs go through the league since that were not so far behind (Elway, Peyton). Yes Young is in the HOF, which is not same as GOAT, some guys in the HOF were not even the best at their position when they played.

 

I know I'm unlikely to convince a Pats fan that Brady and BB are not BOTH GOAT. Don't really care. Somebody asked, I've offered my opinion along with several extra explanations.

 

I could have simply said NO and never said much more.

I am not sure what your point is.

 

i am not saying Brady is ‘Better than Rice’.  I am not saying Rice is ‘Better than Brady’. I am just saying that Rice had (approximately) as many advantageous factors around his success that they are a wash.  Maybe more....maybe a bit less.  Who can quantify?  Doesn’t matter.

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3 hours ago, tazinib1 said:

 

Perhaps it was and ya know what? I have no problem with that at all. 

$5 says Steve knows exactly who ron jeremy is

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37 minutes ago, Chief Dick said:

He's not even better than Sammy Baugh.

And that is a fact!

 

 

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Brady is not even better than Al Bundy, Polk High, who scored 4 touchdowns in a  single game. 

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12 hours ago, Caveman_Nick said:

Funny, Basketball is a sport where there is regular debate on the topic.  Right now there are usually only the two, with Earvin Johnson occasionally creeping in.  Bird has dropped from that group with perspective if time, and I think rightfully so.  His back ruined his career. Lebron will be mentioned.  Kobe never will, because he’ll never be considered as good as Jordan at the 2.

 

Hockey is more of a clear example to me, with Gretzky being the run away winner.  People want to put Orr with him, but it does not stand up to the test of time.  I mention him and Roy only to sate those who don’t want to compare offense to defense to goaltending.

 

The NFL is really hard because there are so many roles.  I think we should stick to talking about who is the best at what they are doing.  There’s no metric to compare a quarterback to an NHL goalie.

 

When it comes to Gretzky he was on another stratosphere in hockey, to me he's undeniably the greatest if you consider how we measure "the goat" for all sports, we think personal stats and championships. 4 Cups with Oilers and led the kings to a 5 appearance but lost, his statistics will NEVER even be close to matched. He has 900 more points, 100 more goals and 900 more assists than the next player, the closest ACTIVE player is more than that away and thats 41 year old Jagr, like think about that for a second, that's foolish, there was noone more dominant in there sport than Wayne and I don't think it's close.  When I think of Brady I don't think the most talented, the best statistically, what comes to mind is CLUTCH, he's definitely one of the most Clutch individual athletes in Sports History  

Edited by Gourdeau

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I think you have to add Serena Williams, Tiger Woods / Jack Nicklaus/ and Roger Federer into the Conversation as well 

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Tennis is really interesting, at least on the Men’s side.  What a match if you could see Sampras and Federer in their primes!  Serena probably curb stomps Graf or Navratalova.

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4 minutes ago, Caveman_Nick said:

Tennis is really interesting, at least on the Men’s side.  What a match if you could see Sampras and Federer in their primes!  Serena probably curb stomps Graf or Navratalova.

 

I honestly believe Nadal is the best, he has missed like 12 grand slams to injury, if he could have stayed healthy he would likely have more slams than Roger. 

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Mike Tyson v. anyone in this thread.  Posting or otherwise.

 

:boxing:

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16 hours ago, LordOpie said:

$5 says Steve knows exactly who ron jeremy is

 

Where's my $5?   The name was familiar, but did not know what he was known for. I checked though while Taz and I were discussing it via PM.

 

I can name plenty of women in pron but the only male name I knew before was John Holmes.

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51 minutes ago, stevegrab said:

... the only male name I knew before was John Holmes.

ya like a big dick, do ya?

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22 hours ago, Caveman_Nick said:

I have hears this argument over and over, and it’s nonsense.

 

let’s start with the division.  They okayed six games against the Dolphins, Jets, and Bills.

 

The roster was pretty talented, with a great o-line, moss and welker at wr, a perenially good running game, the best d-line in football, Mayo, Brabel and Mayo at LB, and a decent secondary anchored by Rodney Harrison.  There was enough talent there to win some games.

Week 1: beat the Chiefs

Week 2: beat the Jets

week 3: lost to Dolphins

week 4 bye

week 5: beat 49ers

week 6: lost to Chargers

week 7: spanked the Broncos (surprisingly....looks like a trap game)

week 8: beat Rams

week 9: lost Colts

week 10: Beat bills

week 11: Lost Jets

week 12: Beat Dolphins

week 13: lost Steelers

week 14: Beat Seahawks

week 15: Beat Raiders

week 16: beat Cardinals

week 17: beat Bills

scored 410 points, game up 309

they went 4-0 against a weak NFC west, 4-2 against a weak AFC east, and went 3-3 against the rest of the AFC.

Compare that performance to 2007, where they scored 589 points and gave up 275, to 2009 when Brady was not himself, scoring 427 and giving up 285, and 2010, back to the old brady, scoring 513 and giving up 313.

 

Brady made a huge difference.

 

 

So that's one year.  My point still stands.  They still won without Brady.  Doesn't matter if they scored 500 more points or 100 less points.  They still won.  If a team continues to win when the starting QB is out for any period of time it makes you wonder if it's more of a system being successful vs. the player.  Doesn't mean Brady isn't a great player just not sure my opinion of him as the GOAT has changed.

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On Thursday, January 25, 2018 at 12:16 PM, LordOpie said:

ya like a big dick, do ya?

 

No but you like acting like one ;)

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I guess it all depends on one's definition of greatness. The official (google) definition of great is " of ability, quality, or eminence considerably above the normal or average" So with that being said, the answer is clearly no, he's not even the best QB in the NFL currently when it comes to talent and ability, I'd hand that to Rodgers.. I think when people say GOAT as it relates to Brady and Football, it's that he's the best winner/ competitor ever in the clutch, when all the chips were down, he never gives up when a lot of others would throw in the towel. 

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On ‎1‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 2:37 PM, NAUgrad said:

So that's one year.  My point still stands.  They still won without Brady.  Doesn't matter if they scored 500 more points or 100 less points.  They still won.  If a team continues to win when the starting QB is out for any period of time it makes you wonder if it's more of a system being successful vs. the player.  Doesn't mean Brady isn't a great player just not sure my opinion of him as the GOAT has changed.

they won without brady because people respect and trust belichick.....people have bought in to bill before they've even set foot in the locker room or a meeting room with him

 

as ty law once said "with parcells...he got guys excited by telling them if they won everything would come...the money, fame, glory and women.....with belichick what got us excited and to pay attention was that the other teams did exactly what he told us they would do".....

 

you look around the league and you hear stories about guys falling asleep in meetings or being late...guys skipping walk throughs in the playoffs......guys complaining that their unit has guys deviating from the gameplan and not taking care of their assignments......that stuff doesn't happen in new england

 

when other cities lose their starter most of those teams are mailing it in and have lost all hope...in new England they are out to prove people wrong and they trust their coach and respect him...its not so much a "system" but a sign of respect.....belichick commands it like no other coach out there

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Hell NO. The Greatest is, well, The Greatest. Ali was and is the Greatest of all time. in a sport that takes no prisoners and the object is to concuss.

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