forever in debt to mo lewis Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 under the 2018 trade value chart the colts came out ahead +810 if we go with the assumption that next years jets 2nd rounder is a top 10 in the round now lets use the updated chart(even though the wentz trade took place 2 years ago) to see how that deal went....pick 2 overall is worth 2600....pick 8 is worth 1400......thats a 1200 point difference....the 12th pick cleveland got in the 2017 first round is valued at 1200 today...making up the difference and basically putting us at 0 now.....a top 10 pick in the 3rd round is about 240 points and a top 10 pick in the 4th is worth about 80-82 points.......that pick cleveland is getting from philly in this years 2nd is the last pick in the round valued at 270....putting clevelands value at around +592 or so...give or take a few....... now if somehow the jets turn it around quick and that next years 2nd round pick lowers the value we figured in they will still come out ahead better than cleveland did in the wentz trade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelredd9 Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 (edited) When the Carson Wentz trade went down, it wasn't known that the 1st round pick would be the 12th pick and that the 2nd round pick would be the 64th pick. Philly had a new coach and looked like they might be rebuilding. The 1st round pick could have easily turned out to be a top-5 pick. And no one would have predicted that this year's 2nd round pick would be at the end of the round. Just like no one would have known that the Redskins would be giving up the 2nd overall pick two years later in the Robert Griffin trade. How did the Redskins trade turn out according to the Trade Value Chart? It was smart for the Colts to trade down since they didn't need a quarterback. They had to take the best deal offered. I'm just surprised that no one offered more. If I were the Jets and thought Josh Rosen was going to be a franchise quarterback, I'd make that trade without a second thought. Both teams could end up benefiting from the trade. Edited March 18, 2018 by michaelredd9 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 11 minutes ago, michaelredd9 said: When the Carson Wentz trade went down, it wasn't known that the 1st round pick would be the 12th pick and that the 2nd round pick would be the 64th pick. Philly had a new coach and looked like they might be rebuilding. The 1st round pick could have easily turned out to be a top-5 pick. And no one would have predicted that this year's 2nd round pick would be at the end of the round. Just like no one would have known that the Redskins would be giving up the 2nd overall pick two years later in the Robert Griffin trade. How did the Redskins trade turn out according to the Trade Value Chart? It was smart for the Colts to trade down since they didn't need a quarterback. They had to take the best deal offered. I'm just surprised that no one offered more. If I were the Jets and thought Josh Rosen was going to be a franchise quarterback, I'd make that trade without a second thought. Both teams could end up benefiting from the trade. havent analyzed the griffin deal....would need the particulars and of course you dont know ahead of time what the picks are going to turn out as...im just telling you what they did turn out as....it didnt turn out to be anything GREAT for cleveland.....especially anything compared to what indy does know they are going to get..... i think there are a bunch of guys at qb and no one is really seperating themselves....thus no one is really willing to go crazy....but i dunno.....i do think rosen is the most ready and has the best floor..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesplante11 Posted March 18, 2018 Author Share Posted March 18, 2018 14 hours ago, tazinib1 said: Not if the Giants take you know who Lord Voldimort? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeR Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 (edited) On 3/17/2018 at 4:07 PM, Shorttynaz said: love this as a Colts fan. It's a good trade for both sides. Jets get a shot at their qb of the future and the Colts will still get a top 10 stud (unless they keep dealing) along with two additional quality 2nd round picks to further enhance their rebuilding process. Mostly agree, even though I hate losing the pipe dream of Barkley or even Chubb or Fitz realistically and question giving up the 1.03 without even getting a first rounder, that's almost unheard of, but three 2d rounders is still good value. Nelson would be a great consolation prize. But if they don't nab a RB with one of those 2d rounders I'm gonna be PO'd. Michel or the USC guy maybe. I think Guice will be gone. At least Ballard didn't complicate things by signing any quality FAs. Maybe that's because he mostly sucks at it so far. Shades of Polian. Edited March 19, 2018 by BeeR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 On 3/17/2018 at 12:53 PM, tazinib1 said: The Colts move down to 1.6 from 1.3 and get 3 2nd round picks. Ya don't think that is a tad too expensive???? It's not the move. It's the price they paid to move. This is a move for franchise qb. Just look at what Philly, Rams, Chiefs, even the Bears gave up for their respective move ups for QBs. Draft value chart goes right out the window when QB starved teams are competing to move up in round 1. Usually the move up cost for rd 1 QB is over 150% of traditional draft value chart. Jets did fine. Expensive? Absolutely. Overpriced? When the Bills, Cardinals and others are looking to move up to top or 4 as well, the Jets did just fine. On 3/17/2018 at 3:37 PM, Gourdeau said: I get your point but we arent talking about any of these QBs as being on that level.. they arent emotely close to being a sure thing... they spent as if they were getting the top pick and there is a once in a lifetime type of talent IE Manning or Luck Sure thing? LOL!! Neither was Wentz, Goff , Trubisky, or Mahomes. And look at the draft capital that was used to move up for them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 17 hours ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said: just a great deal for indy....you could take one of those 2nd rounders out of it and its still a great deal.....nice work by ballard Yes. Considering their guy was probably Chubb all along and they are still going to get him but now have 3 extra 2nd Rd picks in the next 2 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 15 hours ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said: under the 2018 trade value chart the colts came out ahead +810 if we go with the assumption that next years jets 2nd rounder is a top 10 in the round now lets use the updated chart(even though the wentz trade took place 2 years ago) to see how that deal went....pick 2 overall is worth 2600....pick 8 is worth 1400......thats a 1200 point difference....the 12th pick cleveland got in the 2017 first round is valued at 1200 today...making up the difference and basically putting us at 0 now.....a top 10 pick in the 3rd round is about 240 points and a top 10 pick in the 4th is worth about 80-82 points.......that pick cleveland is getting from philly in this years 2nd is the last pick in the round valued at 270....putting clevelands value at around +592 or so...give or take a few....... now if somehow the jets turn it around quick and that next years 2nd round pick lowers the value we figured in they will still come out ahead better than cleveland did in the wentz trade It is standard practice to discount future year picks to the next lower round. So the Jets 2019 2nd rounder is valued as the equivalent of this year's 3rd Rd pick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 7 hours ago, Dcat said: It is standard practice to discount future year picks to the next lower round. So the Jets 2019 2nd rounder is valued as the equivalent of this year's 3rd Rd pick. seems fair for mike redd btw...you see the PFT article about the fins trading from 12 to 3 in 2013 for dion Jordan? all they gave up was the 42nd pick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAUgrad Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 I don't think the Giants take a QB at #2. I think the new coach wants to establish his support of Manning and will take either Barkley or Nelson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelredd9 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 1 hour ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said: for mike redd btw...you see the PFT article about the fins trading from 12 to 3 in 2013 for dion Jordan? all they gave up was the 42nd pick That was a very weak draft. It was lacking elite players and no franchise quarterbacks were available. Which players are available is integral to the value of the pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 32 minutes ago, michaelredd9 said: That was a very weak draft. It was lacking elite players and no franchise quarterbacks were available. Which players are available is integral to the value of the pick. "strong draft/weak draft" is just perception until you've had 5 years to look back and evaluate......which we can now do with that class....but the dolphins thought Jordan was going to be elite or else they wouldn't have made the move drafting and evaluating is an inexact science...or else guys like bell and Kelce wouldn't have gone in the 2nd and 3rd rounds of that draft we could argue about this all day.....but IMO the jets gave up too much and the colts got a score for a team that needs a bunch of talent infused into it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 if scouts/front offices were always right than the guys in kc and jax would have had lane Johnson instead of joeckel and fischer......or the rams would have had deandre instead of tavon austin bottom line is that these guys don't always know what theyre doing/do the smart thing what the jets certainly accomplished is driving up the price for any team that wants that #2.....the perception that this draft it strong and has 3-4 franchise qbs could easily be dismissed 4-5 years from now the jets are starved and desperate...that's what this looks like to me.....watching sanchez fizzle out and wasted picks on petty, geno and hackenberg have driven them to this it very well might turn out to be a great deal for them in time also.....if they miss on this one though it will hurt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gourdeau Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 If im the colts im calling the Bills to name price for pick 6.. their 2 1st rounders and minimum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 7 minutes ago, LordOpie said: that's true, but they're way smarter than we are or we'd be the ones making millions. they aren't necessarily much smarter than us but you have to want that life...first you must be willing to work for free for awhile...then peanuts......and work ridiculous hours.....that's how a lot of those guys got there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shorttynaz Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 4 hours ago, Gourdeau said: If im the colts im calling the Bills to name price for pick 6.. their 2 1st rounders and minimum Not sure they'd be so quick to trade down again per an article I read this weekend where Chris Ballard said this trade was possible as they can move down a few spots and still get "their guy" along with picking up 2 quality second round picks this year and another next year. He did say he's not opposed to moving down further, but it will require some "premium" picks. It all depends on who "their guy" is. If it's Chubb or Nelson, makes perfect sense. If somehow both those guys are off the board at #6 (possible), then maybe they make a move with the Bills for Buffalo's two firsts round picks this year and possibly some high picks in the future. I don't see this trade happening (until potentially draft day) though. The Cardinals are still rumored (local insiders and local radio) to be trying to work a trade with Indy to move up to #6, but AZs dangling carrot isn't anywhere near the size Buffalo's is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 On Saturday, March 17, 2018 at 2:06 PM, Caveman_Nick said: The jets gave up a chance at 3 front line contributors to move up 3 spots in a draft where the talent upgrade from 6-3 is minimal. Draft as many good players as you can. Giving up that much for that move is ridiculous! Easy to say when your team lucks into a HOF QB in the 6th round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 18 minutes ago, stevegrab said: Easy to say when your team lucks into a HOF QB in the 6th round. I think of it in terms of overall value to the team, and As a Pats fan I approve of this move by the Jets. Tom Brady being a 6th round pick does not jade me...i’ve been a fan since the early 80s. I lived through the Rod Rust years. I know what it’s like to be a fan of a bad team. I think this is a move that will ultimately hurt them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 23 hours ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said: if scouts/front offices were always right than the guys in kc and jax would have had lane Johnson instead of joeckel and fischer......or the rams would have had deandre instead of tavon austin bottom line is that these guys don't always know what theyre doing/do the smart thing what the jets certainly accomplished is driving up the price for any team that wants that #2.....the perception that this draft it strong and has 3-4 franchise qbs could easily be dismissed 4-5 years from now the jets are starved and desperate...that's what this looks like to me.....watching sanchez fizzle out and wasted picks on petty, geno and hackenberg have driven them to this it very well might turn out to be a great deal for them in time also.....if they miss on this one though it will hurt 100% on the money. Big upside + big risk. Jets put themselves into this risk by many years of bad drafting, particularly QBs. If only this team could get lucky in round 6 and find a diamond in the rough like Brady, or round 3 for Joe Montana and Russell WIlson and a the handful of other gems that have been found beyond the 1st 2 rounds. They happen, but not often. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 (edited) for nyone who thinks the Jets paid too much, consider this: Arizona (pick #15) tried to trade with the Colts to move up to #3. Local sports radio here in Phoenix, John Gambadoro, who is known to have reliable sources w/ the Cardinals, said they inquired about moving up to the Colts pick. The cost "was extremely prohibitive" and would have required the Cardinals 2018 1st, 2nd, 3rd round picks and 2019 1st and 2nd round picks, and possibly more. The Cardinals currently sit at #15. Just food for thought. Edited March 20, 2018 by Dcat 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAUgrad Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Wow! Seems hard to move up in drafts in the first round. Incredibly costly for teams. Mortgage their future in hopes of getting it right. That's a heavy risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 32 minutes ago, Dcat said: for nyone who thinks the Jets paid too much, consider this: Arizona (pick #15) tried to trade with the Colts to move up to #3. Local sports radio here in Phoenix, John Gambadoro, who is known to have reliable sources w/ the Cardinals, said they inquired about moving up to the Colts pick. The cost "was extremely prohibitive" and would have required the Cardinals 2018 1st, 2nd, 3rd round picks and 2019 1st and 2nd round picks, and possibly more. The Cardinals currently sit at #15. Just food for thought. that is alot but you also have to consider going from 3 to 15 is a big difference than only dropping to 6.......the colts might be looking at a couple of guys and feel comfortable at 6 that they can get 1 of em....at 15 its a different ball game 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 It’s a ridiculous price. Ricky Williams dumb. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 On 3/17/2018 at 12:19 PM, jamesplante11 said: Especially if Denver or Buffalo trades to 1.02. Arizona even? This trade makes the 1.02 even more valuable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 1 hour ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said: that is alot but you also have to consider going from 3 to 15 is a big difference than only dropping to 6.......the colts might be looking at a couple of guys and feel comfortable at 6 that they can get 1 of em....at 15 its a different ball game Exactly, you need to consider first rounders on a steep curve. Huge difference between 1.06 and 1.15. The Jets may not be done trading. They could be keeping the second move under wraps until the draft approaches or even at the draft. I was actually surprised they would tip their hand like this, which now makes the 1.02 even more valuable. The Browns may bring in a hugh haul here if what I'm thinking happens. We'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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