kdko

Chargers Tell Gates They Don't Want Him

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Spanos is such a POS, typical move.  Same way they handled LT towards the end of his career.  Gates still wants to play, but the Chargers are just going to show him the door.  

 

 

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 Gates is 38 years old. He's been mostly ineffective for the last three years and only caught 30 passes in 2017 despite "playing" in all 16 games for the first time since 2014. Maybe they are not handling it that well but LT was only 30 when he left for NYJ. Gates is eight years older than that. He only played last year to get the TD record in Week 2 and he never scored again until Week 15.  I would be surprised to see another team take him.

 

Gates is the oldest TE in the NFL. Jason Witten is retiring and he is 36.  I'd be surprised to see another team take him. He has been a free agent since back in March.

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44 minutes ago, DMD said:

 Gates is 38 years old. He's been mostly ineffective for the last three years and only caught 30 passes in 2017 despite "playing" in all 16 games for the first time since 2014. Maybe they are not handling it that well but LT was only 30 when he left for NYJ. Gates is eight years older than that. He only played last year to get the TD record in Week 2 and he never scored again until Week 15.  I would be surprised to see another team take him.

 

Gates is the oldest TE in the NFL. Jason Witten is retiring and he is 36.  I'd be surprised to see another team take him. He has been a free agent since back in March.

 

I don't disagree with any of that, I just hate the way the Chargers organization handles their legends.  And let's face it, Gates is a legend.  Automatic shoe-in for the HoF, top 5 Charger of all time, arguably top 5 TE of all time, etc etc.  He's been a free agent since March like you stated, yet he's said that he wants to play this year.  So the Chargers can't give the man sooner notice rather than during the 2018 draft? C'mon.  Even at 38, I think Gates still possesses skills that some time would find useful.  He's not great between the 20's anymore, but he could still make space and get open in the endzone at age 67.

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43 minutes ago, kdko said:

 

I don't disagree with any of that, I just hate the way the Chargers organization handles their legends.  And let's face it, Gates is a legend.  Automatic shoe-in for the HoF, top 5 Charger of all time, arguably top 5 TE of all time, etc etc.  He's been a free agent since March like you stated, yet he's said that he wants to play this year.  So the Chargers can't give the man sooner notice rather than during the 2018 draft? C'mon.  Even at 38, I think Gates still possesses skills that some time would find useful.  He's not great between the 20's anymore, but he could still make space and get open in the endzone at age 67.

 

Honestly think this is unfair to the Chargers.  He has been held on to longer then he should of been and quite frankly impeding the development and use of a much better TE for the last two years.  Chargers have been very patient with him and to honestly think he was expecting to return without a hitch is disingenuous at a minimum.  Witten may have screwed over the Cowboys this year with the possible unexpected retirement, but Gates has been hindering the Chargers for a couple. 

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Gates is an antique.  The Chargers already exercised their loyalty by keeping him on the roster the last 2 years. 

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And everyone is wondering why I'm not a Charger fan anymore. Duh....

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9 hours ago, Def. said:

 

Honestly think this is unfair to the Chargers.  He has been held on to longer then he should of been and quite frankly impeding the development and use of a much better TE for the last two years.  Chargers have been very patient with him and to honestly think he was expecting to return without a hitch is disingenuous at a minimum.  Witten may have screwed over the Cowboys this year with the possible unexpected retirement, but Gates has been hindering the Chargers for a couple. 

 

I guess you are forgetting Gates is a HOF BLOCKER....how has he been hindering the Chargers????

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14 minutes ago, tazinib1 said:

 

I guess you are forgetting Gates is a HOF BLOCKER....how has he been hindering the Chargers????

 

Antonio Gates has always been a below average blocker.

 

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Just now, michaelredd9 said:

 

Antonio Gates has always been a below average blocker.

 

 

What?????!!!!! That is a nutty statement. 

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Posted (edited)

This is from Pro Football Focus:

https://chargerswire.usatoday.com/2018/02/09/despite-injury-chargers-te-hunter-henry-cracks-pffs-top-101-list/

Henry also had an excellent grade when blocking for the run, giving him the potential to be the all-around player that Antonio Gates was never able to be.

 

This is from Jon Gruden:

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/chargers/sdut-melvin-gordon-chargers-wisconsin-jon-gruden-2015oct12-story.html

"I don’t think right now, yet, the Chargers have the components to really feature a great 'I-back' runner, like he was at Wisconsin," ESPN analyst Jon Gruden told the U-T on Saturday. "They don’t have the true fullback like Lorenzo Neal."

Nor does Gruden, who is in San Diego to work Monday's Chargers-Steelers game, see urgent reason to power up at tight end in front of Gordon.

"Remember the (blocking) tight end they had here, Brandon Manumaleuna?" he said. "Antonio Gates is spectacular. But he’s not a blocking tight end. (Ladarius) Green’s not a blocking tight end.

Edited by michaelredd9
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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, michaelredd9 said:

This is from Pro Football Focus:

https://chargerswire.usatoday.com/2018/02/09/despite-injury-chargers-te-hunter-henry-cracks-pffs-top-101-list/

Henry also had an excellent grade when blocking for the run, giving him the potential to be the all-around player that Antonio Gates was never able to be.

 

This is from Jon Gruden:

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/chargers/sdut-melvin-gordon-chargers-wisconsin-jon-gruden-2015oct12-story.html

"I don’t think right now, yet, the Chargers have the components to really feature a great 'I-back' runner, like he was at Wisconsin," ESPN analyst Jon Gruden told the U-T on Saturday. "They don’t have the true fullback like Lorenzo Neal."

Nor does Gruden, who is in San Diego to work Monday's Chargers-Steelers game, see urgent reason to power up at tight end in front of Gordon.

"Remember the (blocking) tight end they had here, Brandon Manumaleuna?" he said. "Antonio Gates is spectacular. But he’s not a blocking tight end. (Ladarius) Green’s not a blocking tight end.

 

I'll take Gates over Hunter Henry and McGrath every single Sunday and twice on MNF. And on Thursday too. Oh and Saturday 

Edited by tazinib1

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Posted (edited)

Oh and that statement by PFF, who I respect and am a subscriber, is one of the worst ever. Gates is a 1st ballot HOF'er and they kinda crapped on his name//career with that comparison. 

Edited by tazinib1

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, michaelredd9 said:

This is from Pro Football Focus:

https://chargerswire.usatoday.com/2018/02/09/despite-injury-chargers-te-hunter-henry-cracks-pffs-top-101-list/

Henry also had an excellent grade when blocking for the run, giving him the potential to be the all-around player that Antonio Gates was never able to be.

 

This is from Jon Gruden:

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/chargers/sdut-melvin-gordon-chargers-wisconsin-jon-gruden-2015oct12-story.html

"I don’t think right now, yet, the Chargers have the components to really feature a great 'I-back' runner, like he was at Wisconsin," ESPN analyst Jon Gruden told the U-T on Saturday. "They don’t have the true fullback like Lorenzo Neal."

Nor does Gruden, who is in San Diego to work Monday's Chargers-Steelers game, see urgent reason to power up at tight end in front of Gordon.

"Remember the (blocking) tight end they had here, Brandon Manumaleuna?" he said. "Antonio Gates is spectacular. But he’s not a blocking tight end. (Ladarius) Green’s not a blocking tight end.

 

One line from a PFF article disproves Gates blocking ability?  I can tell you from watching him for 10 years that he's a good blocker.  He's not a 'blocking' tight end, a la Heath Miller, but he's also no Jimmy Graham.  

 

Just 2 years ago he still had 7 TD's.  He could still have a role in redzone packages, as he can still find space and has an immeasurable rapport with Rivers.  You don't need him between the 20's.  There's certainly a nostalgia here, but organizations should take better care of their vets that have done so much for their franchise.  If Spanos wants fans, I don't know why you don't keep him on the roster for a cheap cost, you don't need to feature him.

Edited by kdko

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Gates is 38. He's done. The only time he has avoided injury in the last three years was 2017 when he averaged under two catches per game. DAL needs a TE badly but not one that needs a wheelchair. Even Tony Gonzalez knew to walk away at 37 and he was never injured and was far more productive than Gates of the last three years.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, kdko said:

 

One line from a PFF article disproves Gates blocking ability?  I can tell you from watching him for 10 years that he's a good blocker.  He's not a 'blocking' tight end, a la Heath Miller, but he's also no Jimmy Graham.  

 

Just 2 years ago he still had 7 TD's.  He could still have a role in redzone packages, as he can still find space and has an immeasurable rapport with Rivers.  You don't need him between the 20's.  There's certainly a nostalgia here, but organizations should take better care of their vets that have done so much for their franchise.  If Spanos wants fans, I don't know why you don't keep him on the roster for a cheap cost, you don't need to feature him.

 

PFF gave Gates a run block grade of 66.0 and a pass block grade of 55.8 last year.  PFF gave Jimmy Graham a run block grade of 65.2 and a pass block grade of 58.7 last year.  Gates did improve from 2016 when PFF gave him a pass block grade of 61.2 and a run block grade of 40.3.  In 2016, PFF gave Jimmy Graham a run block grade of 45.3 and a pass block grade of 46.5.  In 2015, PFF used a different grading system and Gates had an overall blocking grade of -12.8 which was the 5th worst of the 32 tight ends who had 40 targets or more.  Jimmy Graham had an overall blocking grade of +2.9 in 2015 which was 8th best.

 

Edited by michaelredd9

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4 hours ago, tazinib1 said:

And everyone is wondering why I'm not a Charger fan anymore. Duh....

:lol: you're so full of crap

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Posted (edited)

Taz didn't become a bandwagon Rams fan because they got good; it's because the Chargers are releasing a 70 year old tight end!

Edited by Bobby Brown
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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, michaelredd9 said:

 

PFF gave Gates a run block grade of 66.0 and a pass block grade of 55.8 last year.  PFF gave Jimmy Graham a run block grade of 65.2 and a pass block grade of 58.7 last year.  Gates did improve from 2016 when PFF gave him a pass block grade of 61.2 and a run block grade of 40.3.  In 2016, PFF gave Jimmy Graham a run block grade of 45.3 and a pass block grade of 46.5.  In 2015, PFF used a different grading system and Gates had an overall blocking grade of -12.8 which was the 5th worst of the 32 tight ends who had 40 targets or more.  Jimmy Graham had an overall blocking grade of +2.9 in 2015 which was 8th best.

 

 

I should have been more clear, but that article was manuree cause it said 'Hunter Henry also had an excellent grade when blocking for the run giving him the potential to be the all-around player that Antonio Gates was never able to be..'   I'm really surprised that's a line you chose to quote too.  I'll have to go back and re-read who that incompetent writer was who even suggested a second year TE could become a better all around player than a top 5 TE of all time, or that he wasn't well rounded.  Henry shouldn't be compared for years.

 

Funny that he's 7 years Graham's senior and still blocking better.  If you're only going back to 2015 you're not really disproving his blocking ability.  Sure, he's geriatric now.  I'm not disputing that nor suggesting he goes out there and blocks.  If he feels he can play, i'd bet he could still get more TD's in redzone packages than half the TE's out there.  Gates strength has always been in getting separation, he's never had to be a burner.

Edited by kdko

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, kdko said:

 

I should have been more clear, but that article was manuree cause it said 'Hunter Henry also had an excellent grade when blocking for the run giving him the potential to be the all-around player that Antonio Gates was never able to be..'   I'm really surprised that's a line you chose to quote too.  I'll have to go back and re-read who that incompetent writer was who even suggested a second year TE could become a better all around player than a top 5 TE of all time, or that he wasn't well rounded.  Henry shouldn't be compared for years.

 

Funny that he's 7 years Graham's senior and still blocking better.  If you're only going back to 2015 you're not really disproving his blocking ability.  Sure, he's geriatric now.  I'm not disputing that nor suggesting he goes out there and blocks.  If he feels he can play, i'd bet he could still get more TD's in redzone packages than half the TE's out there.  Gates strength has always been in getting separation, he's never had to be a burner.

 

You are misinterpreting what PFF meant.  They aren't saying Hunter Henry will be better than Gates.  They are saying because Hunter can block he can be an all-around tight end whereas Gates was only good at receiving so he was never an all-around tight end.  And Antonio is not still a better blocker than Graham.  In 2015 and 2017, PFF rated Jimmy as the better blocker.  In 2016, Gates was the better blocker because Graham was graded atrociously that year.  Both are notoriously bad blockers.  Both have always been bad blockers.  I challenge you to find one reputable source that has ever said that Gates was a good blocker at any point in his career.  Please don't quote SBNation, Bleacher Report, or someone posting on a message board.  You won't be able to find even one reputable source stating Gates is a good blocker.  Below are a few more sources saying Gates is a bad blocker:

 

This is from PFF in 2008:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/index4cfb.html?p=546

Antonio Gates. I could make a pretty good argument that he could be higher, but that depends on what he does the rest of his career. Plenty of guys have been the best tight end for a three year stretch. He's not considered the most willing blocker despite his size, but he could move up this list with another elite season, joining Ditka, Gonzalez and Sharpe with four.

 

This is from PFF in 2011:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/the-profootballfocus-com-all-afc-west-team

Antonio Gates (San Diego Chargers)

He can’t block for toffee and he missed a lot of time injured. But there simply isn’t a receiving end like Antonio Gates out there.

 

This is from the Journal Sentinel in 2012

http://archive.jsonline.com/sports/packers/nfl-draft-pool-changes-as-tight-ends-shift-from-blocking-vn4vq5n-148348625.html/

"Let me tell you what I was taught," one personnel man said. "Pro Bowl tight ends aren't blockers."

Among the 2011 Pro Bowl choices, Gronkowski certainly was a heavy-duty blocker. Jimmy Graham, Tony Gonzalez and Antonio Gates certainly were not.

Nonetheless, there is widespread dissatisfaction with this group of largely receiving tight ends.

"It's a bad group," said one scout from a team with a more traditional run-pass attack. "(Dwayne) Allen is the only tight end. The rest of those guys are specialists."

 

This is from PFF in 2013:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/performance-based-value-tight-ends

Despite a potential Hall of Fame-worthy career, Gates regressed on the field in 2012, a season in which he finished with a -1.8 overall grade (+1.6 receiving) after coming in at +9.0 or better in each of the previous four years. The struggles of Philip Rivers unquestionably played a role, but it was his efforts in run blocking, an area that admittedly hasn’t been a strong suit in his career — and a recurring theme on this list — that doomed his PBV.

 

Edited by michaelredd9
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Most of the people complaining about this are Chargers fans angry with all things Spanos, clouded by the many good things Gates did, ignoring the fact that the Chargers drafted his replacement and are prepared to use him now to make their offense better. 

 

Gates has never been a good blockers or a well rounded TE, he's a pass catching beast who's time is up.

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