michaelredd9 Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 (edited) On 8/25/2018 at 7:06 PM, forever in debt to mo lewis said: i have 1, 23.& 26 in a 12 teamer high stakes tomorrow...im going to assess the situation after the guy at 22 picks and see whats left at rb......its quite possible he doesnt make it by me at 23.... Who did you end up taking? Edited August 27, 2018 by michaelredd9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaf Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 10 hours ago, gilthorp said: I will try to get some shares if I can and handcuff to P Lindsay. If? I haven't seen Lindsay get mentioned, let alone drafted, yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 (edited) 51 minutes ago, michaelredd9 said: Who did you end up taking? ended up getting gurley, mixon and royce at 1, 23, 26...liked howard but he went before i picked at 23 my receivers may appear to be a little weak...my top 2 which i took at 47 and 51 were juju and hogan...but i have them ranked higher than this site...i have them both in the 30-40 range overall in ppr Edited August 27, 2018 by forever in debt to mo lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilthorp Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 5 hours ago, loaf said: If? I haven't seen Lindsay get mentioned, let alone drafted, yet. If I get Freeman I will cuff to Lindsay. He is Chris Thompson and/or Jerrick McKinnon IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelredd9 Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 There is more to dislike about Royce than like: 1. He is not a good receiver. This could limit him to playing 40%-50% of snaps. A running back with 175 carries and 15 receptions has little fantasy value. 2. He has a below average offensive line. He is nimble for a big guy but not so nimble that he can create on his own. 3. He has issues with pass protection. Booker is very good at pass protection. Royce has at least a 50% chance of losing the starting job because of pass-blocking. 4. He is an unproven 4th round rookie pick. He will be given nothing. He will have to earn everything. He will be on an extremely short leash. I am officially disembarking from the Royce Freeman bandwagon. It was a fun summer dalliance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 booker stinks Lindsay is 3rd down/2 minute drill back denvers offensive line is average...maybe slightly below...but their run schedule I have as tied for one of the best in the league going into the year which I think offsets the offensive line woes to some degree.....they have what appears to be a competent qb that can sustain drives....they have a good defense....they want to run the ball and play good D and win games that way ultimately....freeman will be a big part of that....if you've watched his td runs(or at least his last one) ...he only need a little daylight....and on the other two he basically used his feet to move and find it.....he is a better runner than booker period....hes what they want and will be given the chance to take this thing over sooner rather than later.... I agree mike that he could be on a short leash...a fumble here or there and he could be in the doghouse which will limit obviously....but I think you are going to be suprised Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelredd9 Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 2 hours ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said: he is a better runner than booker period. Being the better runner isn't enough to ensure a starting job in today's NFL. Pass protection and receiving are equally important to getting on the field. Here is snippet from an Aug 20th ESPN article: He has shown vision, power and speed, but on two separate occasions in recent days, Broncos coach Vance Joseph finished a sentence about Freeman with “but we’ll see how he does in protections." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, michaelredd9 said: Being the better runner isn't enough to ensure a starting job in today's NFL. Pass protection and receiving are equally important to getting on the field. Here is snippet from an Aug 20th ESPN article: He has shown vision, power and speed, but on two separate occasions in recent days, Broncos coach Vance Joseph finished a sentence about Freeman with “but we’ll see how he does in protections." booker has 1 catch in the preseason...so does freeman.....can you find me anything where people are saying he has looked poor in both, or one, of these areas? surely a beat writer or blogger would find him getting cussed out at a practice for something i posted some stuff yesterday about a guy that its looking great in saints camp by all reports...and if you read the article even payton tries to pump breaks on a rookie and say "well wait a sec hold up...hes only playing one spot right now and he has to learn nuance".....this guy is a 3rd rounder....hes not going to be given the job and put first on the depth chart today......i dont think you want to like freeman and are reading too much into typical coach speak....imo....of course they have to see how he does in pass protections....its his first camp..its new to him.... Edited August 28, 2018 by forever in debt to mo lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 15 minutes ago, LordOpie said: as a broncos fan who watches, listens, reads... I'm not excited about Freeman. However... heard on the radio today that Ladanian Tomlinson likes royce and sees a good future for the kid. LT said that Royce should beat out Booker for the starting job. I get that LT is a HoFer and knows way more than me, but LT said, "should". I feel if Royce didn't beat out Booker clearly and definitively already, then Royce isn't going to put up the numbers some of you are hoping for. Royce should've already taken the #1 job with no doubts. He didn't or the HC and organization are reluctant to annoint a rookie 3rd rounder the starter........for all we know booker could roll out for the first series and be seen very little again.....it does happen.... im not saying you and mike are definitively wrong.....im just saying that i think you are reading too much into some words....joseph talking about pass pro...and lt saying "should"....its just means that they might be reluctant to name him the starter right now.....we will see who gets more work.....who knows maybe they go hot hand...maybe one of them coughs up the ball and goes to the doghouse......we shall see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelredd9 Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 37 minutes ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said: can you find me anything where people are saying he has looked poor in both, or one, of these areas? surely a beat writer or blogger would find him getting cussed out at a practice for something Nothing positive has been said about his pass blocking or receiving. Broncos sources have said he needs more repetitions. I take that to mean he isn't good at those skills yet. But I don't think they expected him to immediately excel at pass protection and receiving. He came in with virtually zero experience at them. These aren't skills that are learned overnight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 1 minute ago, michaelredd9 said: Nothing positive has been said about his pass blocking or receiving. Broncos sources have said he needs more repetitions. I take that to mean he isn't good at those skills yet. But I don't think they expected him to immediately excel at pass protection and receiving. He came in with virtually zero experience at them. These aren't skills that are learned overnight. guys get cussed out in front of the public all the time for missing a catchable ball, not being where they are supposed to be or missing an assignment....surely a beat writer would have picked up on this somewhere.... like i said....freeman has 2 targets and 1 catch this preseason...booker has 1 target and 1 catch...not much going on there aside from lindsay...and i dont think we will be seeing a ton of him just cant envision a scenario where this guy isnt a factor...unless they are down 10+ points in the 3rd or something......this guy excels in exactly what they want to do imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 “Right now, we’ve got Freeman scheduled to play," he announced. "He’s had a good preseason. He’s run the ball tough, he’s practiced well and he’s run downhill. We’ll see if he plays and how much he plays.” if he plays? so hes going to be active in the finale but your going to see "if" he plays? i mean thats right up there with speculation when LT uses the word "should" isnt it? ....theres blurred lines here and i think we have to try to read between them a bit.... then this is added by the writer of the article Through three preseason matchups, Freeman's logged a team-high 84 yards on 15 attempts (5.6 yards-per-carry) and three touchdowns, continually busting through the line of scrimmage. Booker has nine carries for 33 yards (3.7 YPC) and zero TDs, showing no explosion or home-run ability. The media sees it, the fans see it, Joseph doesn't. theres no way the coach "doesnt" see it....now i agree that they could be unimpressed by his receiving ability and pass pro....but i feel like if there was some concern there we would know a bit more about it....we would have heard about some struggles of his in those areas by reporters or beat writers....then again maybe joseph is good at holding it close to his vest.... remember...kareem hunt wasnt named the "starter" until a year ago yesterday when ware was ruled done for the year.....ware wasnt a bad back but i find it hard to believe that hunt wasnt going to find a way to get the majority of the work and take over sooner rather than later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 (edited) 27 minutes ago, LordOpie said: the issue is... why is booker even on this team? Why didn't we do a better job addressing the position? how come freeman didn't destroy someone who shouldn't be on the team? opie...by most accounts...from what im reading...and what i saw....he sort of did "destroy" booker...which is why the writer of that article, i just posted excerpts from, seems perplexed...just because a guy hasnt officially been named the "starter" doesnt mean he hasnt outplayed the competition i wish i could answer your booker question....but they did address the position and freeman is the guy they brought it...and by pretty much all accounts he had outplayed booker....maybe they were hoping to see some improvement from booker.....maybe they still think booker can be a nice #2 or guy they can rotate in a bit and that he just hasnt been able to get going yet...i dunno Edited August 28, 2018 by forever in debt to mo lewis 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelredd9 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 The fantasy world loves say that running backs like Devontae Booker, Peyton Barber, and Chris Carson are horrible. They are not horrible. They are only horrible in the fantasy world. They don't have what it takes to be an elite lead back. They are plenty good enough to win a starting job over a rookie running back who is not well-rounded. Every year people drink Kool-Aid on young, unproven players. Every year people are disappointed. Rashaad Penny, Ronald Jones, or Royce Freeman could each have a great year. But I'm not going to bet on it by using a high draft pick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAUgrad Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 From what I've seen and read, Freeman is the better back. However, Booker is a vet and has shown he can block in pass protection. If Freeman can't handle pass protection then he will only be a spot starter. If he improves in that area then he will be the #1 back and it's not even close. Pass protection is everything right now for Freeman. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 1 hour ago, michaelredd9 said: The fantasy world loves say that running backs like Devontae Booker, Peyton Barber, and Chris Carson are horrible. They are not horrible. They are only horrible in the fantasy world. They don't have what it takes to be an elite lead back. They are plenty good enough to win a starting job over a rookie running back who is not well-rounded. Every year people drink Kool-Aid on young, unproven players. Every year people are disappointed. Rashaad Penny, Ronald Jones, or Royce Freeman could each have a great year. But I'm not going to bet on it by using a high draft pick. mike...you know I like and respect your opinion....but I respectfully disagree...I think you are missing the boat here barber, booker and carson are serviceable....they aren't good the reason penny, freeman and jones( I like him the least right now) are there is because of demand......neither Denver, seattle, or tampa are in the position to take a back as a "luxury"....especially tampa and seattle to take one as high as they did...and penny was considered a reach booker has had two nfl seasons and 3 camps to show something...and he still hasn't....while freeman has flashed in one camp I understand the need in the nfl for depth at all positions...especially one has brutal as the rb position can be.....but if carson, barber and booker were good then those teams could have waited to nab another one of them or added another veteran from somewhere in free agency......but seattle and tampa used high draft capital on them for a reason barber, carson and booker all have had like 3 camps...3 years to know all assignments and protections....that's why they are ahead right now......they know the playbook a bit better as they should....but I trust that all 3 teams scouted these rookies and feel they all have the desire and aptitude to pick up the stuff given ample time....and its likely only a matter of time till they catch up I simply think it will happen with freeman before the others....I think theres is a demand for freeman....hes what they want...they have one of the better run scheds....a good defense that should keep games within reach....a decent qb that they prob don't want to have to win them games....they want to rely on a strong runner to sustain and finish drives....and freeman has flashed more in one summer than 3 years of booker as ive said...all ive heard is a vague quote from vance about a rookie in pass protection.....its typical stuff......ive yet to see a beat writer notice him getting chewed out or singled out for it....or notice him blowing an assignment....and we both know that stuff happens alllll the timeeeeee in the world of training camp beat writers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelredd9 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 1 hour ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said: as ive said...all ive heard is a vague quote from vance about a rookie in pass protection.....its typical stuff......ive yet to see a beat writer notice him getting chewed out or singled out for it....or notice him blowing an assignment....and we both know that stuff happens alllll the timeeeeee in the world of training camp beat writers Royce came with no experience at pass protection or receiving. They aren't going to chew him out for doing poorly unless they think he isn't working hard or isn't concentrating. I have no doubt that he is working very hard on pass protection. But if he was good at it, we would have heard about it from his coaches and teammates. Instead, coaches say something like "he has a willingness to block but needs more repetitions". Or Vance Joseph ending sentences with "but we'll see how he does in protections". He is a work in progress. Vance Joseph said that Freeman is scheduled to play in the final preseason game. Usually that would mean he isn't going carry a heavy load in week 1. Although, in this case, they could just want Freeman to work on his pass protection. Any way you slice it, they would not play Royce in the final preseason game if he was not having issues. His most likely scenario is starting out the year playing 40% of snaps and getting 10-12 carries and 0-2 receptions. I love running backs like Aaron Jones, Corey Clement, Sony Michel, Rashaad Penny etc. They all have talent and could be a stud running back by the end of the year. And their price is right. Royce Freeman would be a great 8th round pick. But his 25% chance of being good doesn't justify a 3rd round price tag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, michaelredd9 said: Royce came with no experience at pass protection or receiving. They aren't going to chew him out for doing poorly unless they think he isn't working hard or isn't concentrating. I have no doubt that he is working very hard on pass protection. But if he was good at it, we would have heard about it from his coaches and teammates. Instead, coaches say something like "he has a willingness to block but needs more repetitions". Or Vance Joseph ending sentences with "but we'll see how he does in protections". He is a work in progress. Vance Joseph said that Freeman is scheduled to play in the final preseason game. Usually that would mean he isn't going carry a heavy load in week 1. Although, in this case, they could just want Freeman to work on his pass protection. Any way you slice it, they would not play Royce in the final preseason game if he was not having issues. His most likely scenario is starting out the year playing 40% of snaps and getting 10-12 carries and 0-2 receptions. I love running backs like Aaron Jones, Corey Clement, Sony Michel, Rashaad Penny etc. They all have talent and could be a stud running back by the end of the year. And their price is right. Royce Freeman would be a great 8th round pick. But his 25% chance of being good doesn't justify a 3rd round price tag. did you read the entire quote from joseph he also said in the same quote "well see IF he plays".....go read it....I posted the full quote.....theres something to read in that.....now if he does play ill admit there might be some hesitation...he just said hell be active then said "well see IF he plays" you also added quotes that were preceded by "coaches say something like".....these aren't kids...if a guy is missing assignments and not doing what hes supposed to hes getting chewed out in the nfl....you don't get gold stars for trying....everyone is "trying"......I personally believe joseph is trying to cool the hype and expectations......some people around football are acting like hes going to be Terrell davis I'm also not willing to bet a high pick of any one of them.....just for the sake of it...I just like freemans situation and chances...so much I'm willing to spend a 3rd on him.... what carson, barber and booker represent is "value"...a lot of people have fallen in love with that concept and word....I don't mind it in the right spot and situation......but I'm not chasing strictly value...I will take homerun hacks when I feel strongly about it....playing safe and for "value" isn't for me...I find it rarely to work out for a great fantasy team booker represents a decent value because hes going past the 10th in most drafts....if freeman fumbles, stumbles or gets hurt booker could be nice for someone...but I'm seeing carson and barber getting taken in some spots where guys are still yet to finish their starting lineups with those guys you are betting on a guy that their own team WANTS to be supplanted....that's why the rookies are there look at minny last year....they had a veteran in murray they signed....they had McKinnon there(McKinnon is now a 2nd/3rd round fantasy pick in another city).....yet they drafted cook because they wanted cook to take the job....and he had it from the start you are right those guys don't have what it takes to be an elite back....yet their teams brought in guys that they felt could be(or at least close in freemans case).....so while they are good enough to hold a starting spot over rookie....are they good enough to keep it? sure their teams could start hot and keep riding that wave....or they could be relegated to a split or even just spot duty too.... you think theres a 25 percent chance freeman is good...I put a much different valuation on it....in fact over 50 percent....probably somewhere around 80.....and with the Denver situation overall I feel that's a worthy gamble....... Edited August 29, 2018 by forever in debt to mo lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelredd9 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 (edited) We have no evidence that Royce has become competent at pass protection or receiving. We knew he came in inexperienced at both. He has gotten no public compliments from teammates or coaches for his pass protection or receiving. He can't be good at those skills. But the audition isn't over. It is just beginning. Each week he will have the chance to prove he isn't a liability on pass plays. NFL teams like their running back to be able to run, block, and receive. If a running back isn't multi-dimensional, they will be used situationally. Right now Royce projects to be an early down pounder. He could be an important cog in the Broncos' real world offense. But early down pounders are fantasy kryptonite. 15 carries with 1 reception has minimal fantasy value. 10 carries with 1 reception has no fantasy value. Edited August 29, 2018 by michaelredd9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stethant Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 The problem here seems to be the coach. For me, I'm interested in the potential and am willing to wait through ~4 games to see how this plays out. Depends on the draft price, admittedly. RotoWire Staff (12 hrs ago) Head coach Vance Joseph deemphasized the importance of picking a starter between Freeman and Devontae Booker, saying hypothetically that Freeman would likely be on the field if it is a power run and Booker would be on the field if it is a quick pass, Zac Stevens of BSN Denver reports. Telegraphing your plays like this is entirely counterproductive. Hopefully this is some dis-/mis-information and not just a head coach in way over his head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slambo Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 (edited) 58 minutes ago, LordOpie said: which begs the question to y'all... has any rookie HC ever been successful? Seifert inherited a heck of a team though and had Holmgren Edited August 30, 2018 by slambo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelredd9 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 14 hours ago, LordOpie said: the guy to keep an eye on is Philip Lindsay. Could be the next darren sproles. Lindsay is electric. In the words of Brandon Marshall, "he's got the sauce". He looks like he could be good at both receiving and pass blocking. He had 53 receptions his junior year. PFF gave him a pass blocking efficiency rating of 96.5 last year. He is a tough little somafabitch. Lindsay could easily win all passing down work which would make Devontae more likely to take early down work from Freebird. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 45 minutes ago, michaelredd9 said: Lindsay is electric. In the words of Brandon Marshall, "he's got the sauce". He looks like he could be good at both receiving and pass blocking. He had 53 receptions his junior year. PFF gave him a pass blocking efficiency rating of 96.5 last year. He is a tough little somafabitch. Lindsay could easily win all passing down work which would make Devontae more likely to take early down work from Freebird. tarik cohen is "electric" and has the "sauce" too....and hes expected to get an increased amount of touches yet Jordan howard is still going in the 2nd round of ppr drafts.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelredd9 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, forever in debt to mo lewis said: tarik cohen is "electric" and has the "sauce" too....and hes expected to get an increased amount of touches yet Jordan howard is still going in the 2nd round of ppr drafts.... Tarik Cohen does bring the tahini. But Jordan Howard isn't sharing non-Cohen snaps (yet). If Lindsay gets 30% of snaps and Freeman gets 60% of snaps, I think Freeman owners should be ecstatic. It is more likely that Royce and Devontae will equally split the non-Lindsay snaps to begin the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAUgrad Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 I will be shocked if Lindsay has that big of role in the offense. Could be a great addition and in specific packages dangerous but I don't see him having nearly the impact Cohen does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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