Lev Bell - Something is brewing in Burgh

[darin3]

14 hours ago, Gourdeau said:

yup, and Jaylen Samuels will be the Ahmad Bradshaw to his Brandon Jacobs

 

  I think you're not giving Conner enough credit.  He's got way more wiggle than Jacobs ever had.  Conner, in his most productive season at Pitt, had 26 receptions in an offense that didn't really operate like the Steelers' offense.  

 

He had 6 catches during Week 2 of preseason.  I know, it's preseason.

 

Will Conner = Bell?  I don't think so... but estimating 75-80% of Bell's typical stellar production isn't too far out of line.

[Gourdeau]

40 minutes ago, stevegrab said:

 

Why wouldn't he eventually come back, if he doesn't report and play he isn't a free agent next year, right?

 

And when he comes back he'll play after getting some time in practice. He gives them a better chance to win and they are not going to sit him. 

What I mean is he isn't going to be playing in my opinion unless he shows up in the first few weeks and barring injury they can't plug a guy into the lineup who is being destroyed in the locker room and has lost the respect of his teammates, especially if Conner shows what most are aware that he is capable of. If they are saying this stuff on camera whats being said in private. Whats lost here is this... Let's say he shows up week 11, the Steelers would likely apply for a 2 game roster exemption meaning he doesn't play week 11 or 12 and he doesn't get Paid, so by week 13 hes essentially making the salary of a back up around 4mil 

[Shorttynaz]

16 hours ago, Gourdeau said:

I actually love what is happening to him, to me these comments from players are not just frustration from today, this has been brewing and they have had enough of it and so have the fans, hope he sits all 10 and maybe more. Have said for a long time that the Steelers depend too much on him when he's in there, statistically they are better in yards per game and points per game when he is not there. 

Sounds to me like the people who are butthurt are the ones who drafted him in fantasy.  I don't get how anyone can't side with Bell.  Dude reluctantly played last year on a 1-year franchise tag with (probably improper) expectations that he would get a long-term deal once he showed his worth again.  The NFL should put a rule out there that you can't tag a player more than one year (consecutively).  I put myself in Bell's shoes - and in my opinion, he does have a valid gripe.  Dude is the best RB in football and he knows that.  He's nearing that 30-year mark where people don't sign these RB's to long-term deals.  He's still got enough in the tank to where he's got enough left to live up to a long-term deal.  People want to say "But Pittsburgh offered him a contract".  They did, but one with very little guaranteed.  What if he blows out his knee this year?  What if he breaks his neck and he can never play again?  Put something behind an empty contract and you may actually get some traction.  

 

The thing that baffles me is his teammates who are like "To hell with him.  He's out for himself."  Really??  You're a g'dam liar if you say you're not!!  I hope Bell sits out until week 10.  I hope Pittsburgh is out of it by then.  Nothing would make me happier than to see the Steelers lose a few VERY close games and come back to regret not having the best running back in the NFL on the field when you could have won those games.  

[Shorttynaz]

2 minutes ago, Gourdeau said:

What I mean is he isn't going to be playing in my opinion unless he shows up in the first few weeks and barring injury they can't plug a guy into the lineup who is being destroyed in the locker room and has lost the respect of his teammates, especially if Conner shows what most are aware that he is capable of. If they are saying this stuff on camera whats being said in private. Whats lost here is this... Let's say he shows up week 11, the Steelers would likely apply for a 2 game roster exemption meaning he doesn't play week 11 or 12 and he doesn't get Paid, so by week 13 hes essentially making the salary of a back up around 4mil 

Good luck luring free agents to Pittsburgh if that's how you publically treat people.  I'd take less money to go somewhere else.  

[Shorttynaz]

I suppose the way I see it is this.. 

 

I'm a software engineer working for a software company.  I am the top revenue producer on my team.  Say my employer offers contracts stating "we will pay you said amount over a length of time." 

 

All of my co-workers are receiving contracts of 4 years guaranteed at $100,000 year 1; $110,000 year 2, $125,000 year 3, and $150,000 year 4. 

 

Instead of offering me a similar deal, my company is like you're badass at what you do, and we know last year we gave you a 1-year deal at $120,000.  This year we want to offer you another 1-year deal of $135,000.  After that - you're on your own. 

 

But I like what I do.  I like where I'm at.  I like my co-workers.  I don't want to go anywhere else.  What if I get into a freak accident and chop my fingers off?  I can't type and do my job.  What if I slip and fall and I'm paralyzed from the neck down?  I can't do my job. 

 

I want a similar deal to what my co-workers are getting.  I'd take a little less money if you give me longevity.  THAT'S BELLS STANCE, and I can't fault the guy for standing his ground. 

 

[Gourdeau]

2 hours ago, Shorttynaz said:

Sounds to me like the people who are butthurt are the ones who drafted him in fantasy.  I don't get how anyone can't side with Bell.  Dude reluctantly played last year on a 1-year franchise tag with (probably improper) expectations that he would get a long-term deal once he showed his worth again.  The NFL should put a rule out there that you can't tag a player more than one year (consecutively).  I put myself in Bell's shoes - and in my opinion, he does have a valid gripe.  Dude is the best RB in football and he knows that.  He's nearing that 30-year mark where people don't sign these RB's to long-term deals.  He's still got enough in the tank to where he's got enough left to live up to a long-term deal.  People want to say "But Pittsburgh offered him a contract".  They did, but one with very little guaranteed.  What if he blows out his knee this year?  What if he breaks his neck and he can never play again?  Put something behind an empty contract and you may actually get some traction.  

 

The thing that baffles me is his teammates who are like "To hell with him.  He's out for himself."  Really??  You're a g'dam liar if you say you're not!!  I hope Bell sits out until week 10.  I hope Pittsburgh is out of it by then.  Nothing would make me happier than to see the Steelers lose a few VERY close games and come back to regret not having the best running back in the NFL on the field when you could have won those games.  

Yes it must be very difficult playing football for 12 mil a year guaranteed ( last years tag) which was near double the best rb.. wasn't just about guaranteed money for him that's where people are misunderstanding.. he wanted more guaranteed money AND close to $19 million a year, that is insane, and like Ramon foster said, at 14 mil tag hes making more than  2 of his oline combined.. I dont get what the people who side with him don't understand, the guy has a bad history injury, 2 drug suspensions and has been publically "rapping" negatively about his contract status since his rookie deal, I get where he is coming from but to say the Steelers are mistreating him after they stuck by him during his suspensions and injuries and still offered him a manure ton of money ( yes not as much guaranteed as HE wanted) ... how can you say hes the best RB in the league when he wasn't even statistically the best RB in the league .. he was behind Gurley and Hunt in most categories. That "best in the nfl" gets thrown around way too much I think mainly because people mix fantasy and reality together. 

[DMD]

To be fair, he is making $15 million this year and made like $14 million last year. He's making more than anyone on the Steelers including Roethlisberger. He's about the highest paid RB in the NFL. I cannot find the other RB salaries but I am pretty comfortable thinking that. 

 

Besides, the issue is not so much with him wanting more money, it is saying that he was going to show up and then deciding not to so that his entire team suffers as they planned on having him. If he said two months ago I am not playing for ten games, then "it is what it is" and that is his choice. But the way he's done this screwed over his teammates. They said as much.

[Gourdeau]

1 hour ago, Shorttynaz said:

I suppose the way I see it is this.. 

 

I'm a software engineer working for a software company.  I am the top revenue producer on my team.  Say my employer offers contracts stating "we will pay you said amount over a length of time." 

 

All of my co-workers are receiving contracts of 4 years guaranteed at $100,000 year 1; $110,000 year 2, $125,000 year 3, and $150,000 year 4. 

 

Instead of offering me a similar deal, my company is like you're badass at what you do, and we know last year we gave you a 1-year deal at $120,000.  This year we want to offer you another 1-year deal of $135,000.  After that - you're on your own. 

 

But I like what I do.  I like where I'm at.  I like my co-workers.  I don't want to go anywhere else.  What if I get into a freak accident and chop my fingers off?  I can't type and do my job.  What if I slip and fall and I'm paralyzed from the neck down?  I can't do my job. 

 

I want a similar deal to what my co-workers are getting.  I'd take a little less money if you give me longevity.  THAT'S BELLS STANCE, and I can't fault the guy for standing his ground. 

 

Well as a manager the convo might go like this... Well bud your performance is really good, we are happy how you've helped this company grow BUT you've shown very recently your reluctance to play by the rules.. you're often late for work and meetings so we cant put all our eggs in one basket given these negative variables ... 

 

But again the problem.was not about solely guaranteed money. He wanted unreasonable amounts of per year salary. 

[Shorttynaz]

2 minutes ago, DMD said:

Besides, the issue is not so much with him wanting more money, it is saying that he was going to show up and then deciding not to so that his entire team suffers as they planned on having him.

 

So he's not a man of his word - not many people are these days.  Not to bring politics into this, but the people in charge of this country live every day by saying one thing and doing the other.  I guess I fail to see what leverage he has if he says I'm not practicing or taking part in the pre-season, but I'll be there by week 1.  

 

This article is a little over a month old, but it's a good read.  It does a better job of articulating what I failed to.  

[Gourdeau]

5 minutes ago, DMD said:

To be fair, he is making $15 million this year and made like $14 million last year. He's making more than anyone on the Steelers including Roethlisberger. He's about the highest paid RB in the NFL. I cannot find the other RB salaries but I am pretty comfortable thinking that. 

 

Besides, the issue is not so much with him wanting more money, it is saying that he was going to show up and then deciding not to so that his entire team suffers as they planned on having him. If he said two months ago I am not playing for ten games, then "it is what it is" and that is his choice. But the way he's done this screwed over his teammates. They said as much.

Exactly.. Ramon foster and pouncey explained it , they were all for him holding out preseason as they understand the business side of it but once he decided he wasnt showing, leaving more than double on the table of what most on his team makes, knowing how close they are to a title, it was no longer about business, in their words 

[Gourdeau]

11 minutes ago, Shorttynaz said:

So he's not a man of his word - not many people are these days.  Not to bring politics into this, but the people in charge of this country live every day by saying one thing and doing the other.  I guess I fail to see what leverage he has if he says I'm not practicing or taking part in the pre-season, but I'll be there by week 1.  

 

This article is a little over a month old, but it's a good read.  It does a better job of articulating what I failed to.  

 

What leverage does he have but not showing up ? It's not costing the team anythong for him to stay home... its all about money yet hes leaving 900gs per week on the table.. can play what ifs all day. He could get in a car accident tomorrow and be cripple with no money or play for 14 mil guaranteed. If he's as good as he thinks he is ( I personally believe hes blessed to have a very good Oline and HOF QB and wr that help him and we will find this out in due time) then he should have no worries about his value moving into next year. If he believes 400 more touches will negatively effect his value then weren't the Steelers correct in not giving him huge guaranteed money ? I mean hes kind of proving their point 

Edited September 6, 2018 by Gourdeau

[Shorttynaz]

15 minutes ago, Gourdeau said:

 

What leverage does he have but not showing up ? It's not costing the team anythong for him to stay home... its all about money yet hes leaving 900gs per week on the table.. can play what ifs all day. He could get in a car accident tomorrow and be cripple with no money or play for 14 mil guaranteed. If he's as good as he thinks he is ( I personally believe hes blessed to have a very good Oline and HOF QB and wr that help him and we will find this out in due time) then he should have no worries about his value moving into next year. If he believes 400 more touches will negatively effect his value then weren't the Steelers correct in not giving him huge guaranteed money ? I mean hes kind of proving their point 

I'm not saying the Steelers aren't making the proper business decision.  I am saying I'm not seeing why all the shade is thrown at Bell for standing up for what he wants.  If the Steelers don't want to give it to him, fine - sit out until week 10 or 11, or 14 or whatever.  Play a few games and then go play somewhere next year on your terms. 

 

What I was trying to say in my original post is this guy is a dynamic playmaker.  This isn't just a plug and play offense.  The Steelers will certainly miss Bell and that's what leverage he has.  Who knows maybe Connor steps in and proves to be capable of keeping the run game competitive.  Will they miss Bell enough that they'd be in jeopardy of not making the playoffs?  I would LOVE to see it, but only time will tell.  

[stevegrab]

23 minutes ago, DMD said:

To be fair, he is making $15 million this year and made like $14 million last year. He's making more than anyone on the Steelers including Roethlisberger. He's about the highest paid RB in the NFL. I cannot find the other RB salaries but I am pretty comfortable thinking that. 

 

Besides, the issue is not so much with him wanting more money, it is saying that he was going to show up and then deciding not to so that his entire team suffers as they planned on having him. If he said two months ago I am not playing for ten games, then "it is what it is" and that is his choice. But the way he's done this screwed over his teammates. They said as much.

 

Yep the team wasn't happy he was holding out of camp, but they were OK with that and expected him to honor his word and report on Labor Day. 

Now he and his agent are saying "he'll show up at the last minute possible, and will be protecting his body for future deals with other teams" which is a big FU to the Steelers. 

 

I love how shorty ignores any shortcoming (injuries, suspensions) with Bell yet crowns him the best RB in the league (never mind he has a good OL, elite QB/WR tandem making the running game easier). 

 

Here is a list of NFL RB contracts, appears to be sorted by total dollars, but you can click the columns to sort by them. After Bell and Gurley at 14.5M/year average is Freeman, McCoy, Barkley and McKinnon at around 7.5-8M. Elliot is only making about 6M, is Bell over twice as good?

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/running-back/

[Shorttynaz]

2 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

the problem is the tag

 

THIS.  Bell would either have a long-term contract with PIT or he would have something better than a 1 year deal of 14.5 mil somewhere else.  Kudos to the guy for giving PIT the bird.

 

[stevegrab]

1 minute ago, Shorttynaz said:

THIS.  Bell would either have a long-term contract with PIT or he would have something better than a 1 year deal of 14.5 mil somewhere else.  Kudos to the guy for giving PIT the bird.

 

 

Sure I can  too since it weakens the Steelers, but I don't think Bell is making a wise decision. In the end if he holds out for half a season or more that's about $8-9 million he is losing that he won't get back. And at 27 entering next season I don't see lots of guaranteed money. 

[Shorttynaz]

7 minutes ago, stevegrab said:

I love how shorty ignores any shortcoming (injuries, suspensions) with Bell yet crowns him the best RB in the league

 

This coming from a Browns fan.  

[stevegrab]

Just now, Shorttynaz said:

This coming from a Browns fan.  

What the (the really bad word) does that have to do with anything? Does being a Colt fan make you some kind of NFL expert? 

 

Go back to praying that Luck can stay healthy and bashing your drunk/drug using owner. 

 

 

[Shorttynaz]

1 minute ago, stevegrab said:

 

Sure I can  too since it weakens the Steelers, but I don't think Bell is making a wise decision. 

1

Well, then it's a good thing you're not his agent.  We obviously have a difference of opinion here to which you're not changing mine and I'm not changing anyone else's.  I was just saying I'm in Bell's corner and hopes he keeps his heels dug in.  Someone has to stand up to the man and say enough's enough.  

[Tripleshot]

3 hours ago, darin3 said:

 

  I think you're not giving Conner enough credit.  He's got way more wiggle than Jacobs ever had.  Conner, in his most productive season at Pitt, had 26 receptions in an offense that didn't really operate like the Steelers' offense.  

 

He had 6 catches during Week 2 of preseason.  I know, it's preseason.

 

Will Conner = Bell?  I don't think so... but estimating 75-80% of Bell's typical stellar production isn't too far out of line.

 

Methinks he's flex material with potential upside. I'll likely start him over Jamaal Williams or Jordan Wilkins in week one as I have him in a PPR league and I do think they will throw to him. I saw him in that preseason game where he caught those six passes. He looked good. 

[Shorttynaz]

1 minute ago, stevegrab said:

What the (the really bad word) does that have to do with anything? Does being a Colt fan make you some kind of NFL expert? 

 

Go back to praying that Luck can stay healthy and bashing your drunk/drug using owner. 

 

 

 

No, being a Colts fan doesn't make me an expert, but being a Browns fan CERTAINLY does not make you one either.  Tell me the last RB that played for the Browns who was worth a damn.  My guess is you weren't alive yet.

 

As for the 2nd part of your attempt at rattling my cage - I don't pray, and I could care less if Luck ever sees another snap.  Dude's washed up will never amount to what he could have been.  

[Gourdeau]

16 minutes ago, Shorttynaz said:

I'm not saying the Steelers aren't making the proper business decision.  I am saying I'm not seeing why all the shade is thrown at Bell for standing up for what he wants.  If the Steelers don't want to give it to him, fine - sit out until week 10 or 11, or 14 or whatever.  Play a few games and then go play somewhere next year on your terms. 

 

What I was trying to say in my original post is this guy is a dynamic playmaker.  This isn't just a plug and play offense.  The Steelers will certainly miss Bell and that's what leverage he has.  Who knows maybe Connor steps in and proves to be capable of keeping the run game competitive.  Will they miss Bell enough that they'd be in jeopardy of not making the playoffs?  I would LOVE to see it, but only time will tell.  

Again fantasy vs reality.. the statistics in real life shows that the steelers can plug in another RB successfully. On a per game basis the yards per game and points per game are better when Bell has not played. They are 10 and 7 without bell 11 and 9 with playoffs included.. my opinion is and always has been that they overused bell and relied on him too much. 

[darin3]

2 minutes ago, Shorttynaz said:

No, being a Colts fan doesn't make me an expert, but being a Browns fan CERTAINLY does not make you one either.  Tell me the last RB that played for the Browns who was worth a damn.  My guess is you weren't alive yet.

 

As for the 2nd part of your attempt at rattling my cage - I don't pray, and I could care less if Luck ever sees another snap.  Dude's washed up will never amount to what he could have been.  

 

Are we talking for fantasy purposes?  Cuz yeah Duke Johnson was RB12 last year in PPR formats.    

Anyways, getting off track here...   

Edited September 6, 2018 by darin3

[michaelredd9]

I've been trying to trade for Le'Veon on the cheap.  I think he reports on Friday or Saturday.  There is too much money on the table.  I also think he will be accepted back with open arms.  He'll have a "man-to-man" with the teammates that criticized him and they'll say that they worked through their issues.  It is all cliche and predictable.

 

[stevegrab]

24 minutes ago, Shorttynaz said:

No, being a Colts fan doesn't make me an expert, but being a Browns fan CERTAINLY does not make you one either.  Tell me the last RB that played for the Browns who was worth a damn.  My guess is you weren't alive yet.

 

As for the 2nd part of your attempt at rattling my cage - I don't pray, and I could care less if Luck ever sees another snap.  Dude's washed up will never amount to what he could have been.  

blah-blah-blah I think I know something so I'm going to keep talking and baffling people with my bullmanure

 

What team we root for means nothing, so just stifle. 

[Shorttynaz]

Just now, LordOpie said:

i agree conceptually, but you can't possible think anything will change because of his stance, do you? Nothing changes.

The only thing that happens is he lose a lot of money holding out to week 10.

No, I don't think anything will change.  And I agree that a lot of money will be lost, but..  He's also taking less wear and tear as well as taking a smaller risk of something career jeopardizing will happen as well.  More $$ to be had in a new contract with a new team next season.  

 

In the long run, I think he'll be back in the next few days and they'll kiss and make up.  Dont wanna see it, but it's bound to happen.