weebo

Hyde going to Jax?

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2 minutes ago, Shaft said:

True, but maybe the biggest benefit is getting rid of his contract. 

 

That, and now they have no other option than to give Chubb and Johnson touches. Something the the fan base has been crying for but now they are crying that Dorsey’s traded Hyde. 

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3 hours ago, jamesplante11 said:

 

Flat out guess, but this pick and their own pick in the 3rd

OAK season is toast.  They may get a 2-3 wins.

 

Chucky got the ball rolling with stocking up picks and preparing the next couple years for a good team to play in Vegas.  OAk might as well get something for AC.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Shaft said:

True, but maybe the biggest benefit is getting rid of his contract. 

that can't be... CLE paid $16mil for a 2nd round pick when they "acquire" osweiller. Still the dumbest move by a team ever.

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6 hours ago, jamesplante11 said:

 

Cleveland's Rushing stats:

 

Carlos Hyde: 114 carries, 382 yards, 5 TDs, 3.4 YPC

Nick Chubb: 16 carries, 173 yards, 2 TDs 10.8 YPC

Duke Johnson: 19 carries, 111 yards, 5.8 YPC

 

There wasn't enough touches to support all 3 RBs. Playoffs or not, why not trade him? Hyde and Johnson have 100 less yards on 100 less carries

Because you're only getting a 5th rounder for him and trading low?   Colts should offered a 4th.  Yeah he's erratic and obviously not tearing it up this year, but we got squat at RB thanks to our GM's stupidity.

 

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Last year, PFF graded Hyde as the 5th worst running back in the NFL.  This year, PFF has him graded as the 3rd worst running back in the NFL.  He has been a productive fantasy football running back so fantasy football owners like him.  NFL coaches don't care about fantasy football production.  The Browns did well getting a 5th round pick for him.

 

Carlos Hyde PFF grades:

 

          Overall  Run  Receive  Pass Block

2017     58.0   66.4     41.3        46.9

2018     55.6   58.3     54.8        29.5

           

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2 hours ago, LordOpie said:

that can't be... CLE paid $16mil for a 2nd round pick when they "acquire" osweiller. Still the dumbest move by a team ever.

 

Please explain how that was still the dumbest move ever, because that pick that they paid $16mil for was became none other than Nick Chubb. See, we are full circle here. 

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3 minutes ago, jamesplante11 said:

 

Please explain how that was still the dumbest move ever, because that pick that they paid $16mil for was became none other than Nick Chubb. See, we are full circle here. 

it doesn't matter who that pick became.

so, you explain how paying $16mil for a 2nd is a good idea. What FAs could CLE have signed with that $16?

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That $16mil was nothing compared to the $100+ million they had in cap space and it was only one year. They had almost no big name FA acquisitions last year. Correct me if I’m if they hadn’t acquired Oswieller’s contract they were cutting it close to not spending enough and being fined by the league

Edited by jamesplante11
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“The NFL's cap is a hard cap that the teams have to stay under at all times, and the salary floor is also a hard floor. Penalties for violating or circumventing the cap regulations include fines of up to $5 million for each violation, cancellation of contracts and/or loss of draft picks.”

 

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2017/3/7/14822462/cleveland-browns-salary-cap-understanding-the-89-cash-spending-requirement

 

So they weren’t cutting it close to being fined, but they had almost to much to spend. They signed Zeitler, Tretter, Bitonio. They offered Tony Jefferson more to come play than Baltimore did but he declined it. 

 

The Browns also go into 2019 with over $80mil in cap space. They didn’t even notice the $16mil they paid Osweiller

Edited by jamesplante11
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1 hour ago, jamesplante11 said:

That $16mil was nothing compared to the $100+ million they had in cap space and it was only one year. They had almost no big name FA acquisitions last year. Correct me if I’m if they hadn’t acquired Oswieller’s contract they were cutting it close to not spending enough and being fined by the league

good lord, your economics knowledge rivals that of our gov.

Eh, what's a billion dollars when we owe $21T...

Sir, with your $25 car wash, would you like to do it right and add a $5 under carriage wash?

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15 hours ago, Shaft said:

True, but maybe the biggest benefit is getting rid of his contract. 

After freeing up his touches for Chubb. They didn't know they were drafting Chubb when they signed Hyde, nor what they were getting from Chubb. This trade seems to mostly be about getting Chubb on the field, the pick was not some key asset they need.

 

ETA

Some talk locally that Dorsey did this to force the coaches to use Chubb and Duke more, he wants to focus more on the young guys not the vets. Haley likes to use one back and Hue likes to lean on the vets, so Dorsey forced them to do what he wants. As a Browns fan my concern is what happens if Chubb gets hurt, Duke cannot carry the load, the 3rd back is an unknown rookie FA

Edited by stevegrab

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10 hours ago, LordOpie said:

good lord, your economics knowledge rivals that of our gov.

Eh, what's a billion dollars when we owe $21T...

Sir, with your $25 car wash, would you like to do it right and add a $5 under carriage wash?

Your NFL cap knowledge rivals that of a carrot.  It's hardly the same as managing any general budget.  I won't even bother with the brilliance of "it doesn't matter who they got with that 2d round pick."

 

Seriously, stop grabbing a bigger shovel, that hole is big enough.  

 

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4 hours ago, BeeR said:

Your NFL cap knowledge rivals that of a carrot.  It's hardly the same as managing any general budget.  I won't even bother with the brilliance of "it doesn't matter who they got with that 2d round pick."

 

Seriously, stop grabbing a bigger shovel, that hole is big enough.  

 

So it's okay to waste money in the name of the cap?

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32 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

So it's okay to waste money in the name of the cap?

They didn't 'waste' money like certain people who've clearly wasted their brain cells.  The Browns felt that  Osweilers's cap hit was worth the investment of a future draft pick. One could argue that it wasn't worth it, but that would require one to have intellectual honesty.

Edited by Bobby Brown
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here, let's turn the discussion around...

do you think HOU was stupid to give up a 2nd round pick to save $16m?

Edited by LordOpie

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18 hours ago, LordOpie said:

here, let's turn the discussion around...

do you think HOU was stupid to give up a 2nd round pick to save $16m?

so i think some of  you argue with me because you don't like me. That's fine, but this isn't about me, this is about football.

At the time of this deal, they didn't know they were getting Chubb, which is why I say WHO they drafted is irrelevant as they *purchased* a 2nd round pick for $16m and I contend that was so very dumb.

But for those that insist who they drafted is relevant then let's talk about that irrelevant subject instead...

Would you rather have Chubb at a "cost" of $21m or would you rather use that money to fully cover the contract/cost of Dion Lewis (TEN RB)? Lewis has a four year contract of $20m.

Chubb might have a higher ceiling, but does anyone know how many rookie RBs go on to contribute significantly to their team? I don't, so I'm legit asking. And I ask because Lewis has a proven track record. Last year, Lewis had 1,110 total yards for NEP averaging 5.0y/c over 180 carries and 32 catches and... ZERO fumbles in this last 300+ touches.

Maybe I'm too "John Fox" in my thinking, but is it really wrong to value a proven veteran over an unproven rookie?

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The problem is you're trying to spin something that many NFL experts thought was a smart and innovative move. Browns had cap space and Texans were in a bind and needed to trade that horrible contract. There was also some thought that maybe Osweiler could be better and contribute to the Browns.

 

It was also the prior front office that made that trade, not John Dorsey, so not sure how that impacts recent decisions. 

 

Lastly, Chubb is not costing them $21M so quit talking nonsense.

 

PS  you argue just to troll you've admitted it, who knows if this is one of those times or not and if having a real discussion is possible.

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23 minutes ago, stevegrab said:

The problem is you're trying to spin something that many NFL experts thought was a smart and innovative move. Browns had cap space and Texans were in a bind and needed to trade that horrible contract. There was also some thought that maybe Osweiler could be better and contribute to the Browns.

 

It was also the prior front office that made that trade, not John Dorsey, so not sure how that impacts recent decisions. 

 

Lastly, Chubb is not costing them $21M so quit talking nonsense.

 

PS  you argue just to troll you've admitted it, who knows if this is one of those times or not and if having a real discussion is possible.

Chubb isn't earning $21m but that is what he cost... $16m for the pick and $5m for his salary.

I'm not spinning anything. I am giving my opinion that it was dumb. I could be wrong. I know 'experts' SAID it was smart. I'd be curious of those experts still think that. Has anyone read any updates? As for Osweiler, I think he's a pretty good QB. I thought he should've been the starter for my Broncos last year as I thought he was much better than Paxton or Trevor. That said, of those experts you mention, no one really thought he was going to be the starter... so this deal was cash for pick.

Would you rather have Chubb or Dion Lewis?

And I like how you use your PS. as a strawman attack to difuse any comment you made that might be wrong. How about this, either discuss the subject as-is or don't. Trying to attack me instead of my message only suggests that you think you might be wrong, so just leave that aside.

Would you rather have Chubb or Dion Lewis? Because I think that is a very fair comparison... both deals -- cash for pick, and Dion signing with TEN -- happened at the same time for the same cost.

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2 hours ago, LordOpie said:

so i think some of  you argue with me because you don't like me. That's fine, but this isn't about me, this is about football.

At the time of this deal, they didn't know they were getting Chubb, which is why I say WHO they drafted is irrelevant as they *purchased* a 2nd round pick for $16m and I contend that was so very dumb.

But for those that insist who they drafted is relevant then let's talk about that irrelevant subject instead...

Would you rather have Chubb at a "cost" of $21m or would you rather use that money to fully cover the contract/cost of Dion Lewis (TEN RB)? Lewis has a four year contract of $20m.

Chubb might have a higher ceiling, but does anyone know how many rookie RBs go on to contribute significantly to their team? I don't, so I'm legit asking. And I ask because Lewis has a proven track record. Last year, Lewis had 1,110 total yards for NEP averaging 5.0y/c over 180 carries and 32 catches and... ZERO fumbles in this last 300+ touches.

Maybe I'm too "John Fox" in my thinking, but is it really wrong to value a proven veteran over an unproven rookie?

 

Moves like what the Browns made happen in the NBA all the time. Your the only person I know, or have read that thinks the Browns made a bad move. Oswieller was only on the books for last season, when they had over 100 million in cap space. They needed to spend money and players were taking less money to play elsewhere. There were zero Ill effects of the deal, idk why your so tore up about it. It has nothing to do with you personally, politically, emotionally, mentally, and any other ally that I missed. 

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35 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

Chubb isn't earning $21m but that is what he cost... $16m for the pick and $5m for his salary.

I'm not spinning anything. I am giving my opinion that it was dumb. I could be wrong. I know 'experts' SAID it was smart. I'd be curious of those experts still think that. Has anyone read any updates? As for Osweiler, I think he's a pretty good QB. I thought he should've been the starter for my Broncos last year as I thought he was much better than Paxton or Trevor. That said, of those experts you mention, no one really thought he was going to be the starter... so this deal was cash for pick.

Would you rather have Chubb or Dion Lewis?

And I like how you use your PS. as a strawman attack to difuse any comment you made that might be wrong. How about this, either discuss the subject as-is or don't. Trying to attack me instead of my message only suggests that you think you might be wrong, so just leave that aside.

Would you rather have Chubb or Dion Lewis? Because I think that is a very fair comparison... both deals -- cash for pick, and Dion signing with TEN -- happened at the same time for the same cost.

 

You keep saying who the Browns “could have had” 

 

People were turning down contracts to play for less money elswhere. So the Browns could not have Dion Lewis or whoever else’s you want to armchair GM up. The flat out honest answer is no one wanted to sign with Cleveland as a free agent. So get it out of your head that they “could

have had” this or that player. 

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1 minute ago, jamesplante11 said:

 

Moves like what the Browns made happen in the NBA all the time. Your the only person I know, or have read that thinks the Browns made a bad move. Oswieller was only on the books for last season, when they had over 100 million in cap space. They needed to spend money and players were taking less money to play elsewhere. There were zero Ill effects of the deal, idk why your so tore up about it. It has nothing to do with you personally, politically, emotionally, mentally, and any other ally that I missed. 

i'm not tore up. I know it has nothing to do with me, which is confusing why stevegrab is making it about me. I couldn't care less, I'm just having a football conversation. The reason why I even thought about this is because of the Bell-PIT situation. Someone suggested that PIT should release Bell. Someone else suggested that's a bad idea as then PIT would lose a compensatory pick (probably end of the 3rd round). That's when this all really occurred to me... buying a pick for cash seems dumb. A 3rd round compensatory pick would cost PIT $5.1m (6 games at $850k each). Now, if you think Bell would come in and contribute, great. But if the ONLY reason you keep Bell is for a comp pick, I'm not sure that's good enough reason. Back to this...

I think Chubb and Lewis is a fair comparison. Who would you rather have?

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29 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

i'm not tore up. I know it has nothing to do with me, which is confusing why stevegrab is making it about me. I couldn't care less, I'm just having a football conversation. The reason why I even thought about this is because of the Bell-PIT situation. Someone suggested that PIT should release Bell. Someone else suggested that's a bad idea as then PIT would lose a compensatory pick (probably end of the 3rd round). That's when this all really occurred to me... buying a pick for cash seems dumb. A 3rd round compensatory pick would cost PIT $5.1m (6 games at $850k each). Now, if you think Bell would come in and contribute, great. But if the ONLY reason you keep Bell is for a comp pick, I'm not sure that's good enough reason. Back to this...

I think Chubb and Lewis is a fair comparison. Who would you rather have?

 

Chubb, because he cost a whole lot less, he’s probably going to be better, and he’s who The FO picked to have. Why be a fan of a team if you can’t support what they do 

Edited by jamesplante11
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2 minutes ago, jamesplante11 said:

 

You keep saying who the Browns “could have had” 

 

People were turning down contracts to play for less money elswhere. So the Browns could not have Dion Lewis or whoever else’s you want to armchair GM up. The flat out honest answer is no one wanted to sign with Cleveland as a free agent. So get it out of your head that they “could

have had” this or that player. 

 

this is all just hypothetical. If not Dion Lewis, then someone else. I compare the two only because of time-line and cost. money talks. TEN gave Lewis $16m guaranteed. I bet Lewis would've signed with CLE for $21m fully guaranteed. If the comparison still upsets you, then I'm sorry.

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1 minute ago, jamesplante11 said:

 

Chubb, because he cost a whole lot, he’s probably going to be better, and he’s who The FO picked to have. Why be a fan of a team if you can’t support what they do 

i don't even know what to do with that

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