michaelredd9 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Just now, League_Champion said: I personally don't see Flacco as the difference maker. He and Keenum are the same guy in my eyes. It's not enough of an upgrade for me, if any. He's not much better on paper but i would have taken a shot on Foles before either of those two Flacco and Keenum are opposites in most regards. Flacco is very tall, Keenum is very short. Flacco is immobile, Keenum is mobile. Flacco has a rocket arm, Keenum does not. If Denver can provide good protection, Flacco will be better able to utilize Denver's skilled receivers. Keenum would be a better quarterback if Denver's offensive line fails. I'd rather have the quarterback who will succeed with a good supporting cast than the crafty, short guy that can turn lemons into an average offense. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League_Champion Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 16 minutes ago, michaelredd9 said: Flacco and Keenum are opposites in most regards. Flacco is very tall, Keenum is very short. Flacco is immobile, Keenum is mobile. Flacco has a rocket arm, Keenum does not. If Denver can provide good protection, Flacco will be better able to utilize Denver's skilled receivers. Keenum would be a better quarterback if Denver's offensive line fails. I'd rather have the quarterback who will succeed with a good supporting cast than the crafty, short guy that can turn lemons into an average offense. I'm not talking physical attributes. That means nothing at this point of their careers. They are both AVERAGE at best and have nearly identical stats. Those are facts. So why one over the other? It makes zero sense. Dog poop or Cat poop, what's the difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelredd9 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, League_Champion said: They are both AVERAGE at best and have nearly identical stats. Those are facts. So why one over the other? It makes zero sense. Dog poop or Cat poop, what's the difference? Fantasywise, they are equal. But when building a real NFL offense, they provide very different attributes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League_Champion Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 1 minute ago, michaelredd9 said: Fantasywise, they are equal. But when building a real NFL offense, they provide very different attributes. The Ravens obviously didn't see it. I hear ya but I just don't see what you see in Flacco. To me Joe Flaccos and Keenums are a dime a dozen. Especially at this point of his career. I'm not sure what Elway is trying to accomplish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelredd9 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, League_Champion said: The Ravens obviously didn't see it. I hear ya but I just don't see what you see in Flacco. To me Joe Flaccos and Keenums are a dime a dozen. Especially at this point of his career. I'm not sure what Elway is trying to accomplish. I think you are looking at this in a fantasy perspective. Flacco and Keenum have zero fantasy value. Foles, too. What quarterback available on the free agent market is better? Flacco is a small upgrade over Keenum. If Denver has a good offensive line, Flacco will definitely be better than Keenum. If Denver doesn't have a good offensive line, they aren't going to do much in the playoffs anywho. If Denver could sign Aaron Rodgers, they would. But they can't. Beggars can't be choosers. Flacco was the best option of a bunch of bad options. Edited February 14, 2019 by michaelredd9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League_Champion Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, michaelredd9 said: I think you are looking at this in a fantasy perspective. Flacco and Keenum have zero fantasy value. Foles, too. What quarterback available on the free agent market is better? Flacco is a small upgrade over Keenum. If Denver has a good offensive line, Flacco will definitely be better than Keenum. If Denver doesn't have a good offensive line, they aren't going to do much in the playoffs anywho. If Denver could sign Aaron Rodgers, they would. But they can't. Beggars can't be choosers. Flacco was the best option of a bunch of bad options. Your 100% right but nonetheless it's a lateral move. We already on now what Flacco is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelredd9 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, League_Champion said: Your 100% right but nonetheless it's a lateral move. We already on now what Flacco is. Yup, he's the 26th best quarterback in the league. He might even be the 18th best quarterback with a good offensive line and if he stays healthy. And Case Keenum might even start for some other downtrodden team. I gotta say it's nice being a Packers fan and not having had worry about having a junky quarterback for the last 25 years. Edit: the last 30 years, a big up to Don "Majik" Majkowski! Edited February 14, 2019 by michaelredd9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League_Champion Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 32 minutes ago, michaelredd9 said: Yup, he's the 26th best quarterback in the league. He might even be the 18th best quarterback with a good offensive line and if he stays healthy. And Case Keenum might even start for some other downtrodden team. I gotta say it's nice being a Packers fan and not having had worry about having a junky quarterback for the last 25 years. Edit: the last 30 years, a big up to Don "Majik" Majkowski! I'm just confused as to what Elway is trying to accomplish. One of the best QB's of all time and he may be the worst QB evaluator ever. It's unreal. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Def. Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Just now, League_Champion said: One of the best QB's of all time and he may be the worst QB evaluator ever. Was texting with my football buddies this same exact conversation earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelredd9 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 1 minute ago, LordOpie said: I think Keenum is guaranteed $7mil. So while everything else is equal, that money could've gone to a FA OL. That'll hurt a bit if they can't trade him for a conditional 7th round pick. But I'd pay an extra $7 million for Flacco. Maybe you're right that they should just rebuild. But I'm not going to fault Elway for being competitive and trying to win this year. In the NBA, teams intentionally tank in order to rebuild. General Managers don't do that in the NFL. They sign a stop-gap quarterback while trying to develop another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplemonster Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, League_Champion said: I'm just confused as to what Elway is trying to accomplish. One of the best QB's of all time and he may be the worst QB evaluator ever. It's unreal. Also worth mentioning he wanted to keep Osweiler butwas signed for more money by the Texans, otherwise he would have had him for a few more years. The track record is not good. Edited February 14, 2019 by purplemonster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelredd9 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 This whole quarterback thing is more complicated than anyone here thinks. Fantasy footballers think that being an NFL GM is easy. Teams go many years without a franchise quarterback but people here think it is easy to get one. Baker Mayfield seems legit. Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, and Josh Allen might not be franchise quarterbacks. Or they might be. Time will tell. And if they fail, you all will say how stupid the GM was for drafting them. John Elway has not invested much draft capital into the quarterback position. His failings have been gambles. Maybe John Elway has had too much confidence in himself similar to the people in this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League_Champion Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 8 hours ago, LordOpie said: i think his bigger weakness that he thinks he's Belicheck, that he can make a command and it happens. He thinks he can wait too long to re-sign key players and that they'll just bow down and thank him. He waited too long on Malik Jackson and Osweiller, both of whom would've taken way less if he tried six months earlier. Reports are that by waiting, he paid more for Von Miller than Von was willing to take. I think he under-values intelligence and discipline and has gone all Al Davis on this team with drafts. Paxton Lynch and Garrett Bolles might have great measurables, but neither are smart enough or disciplined enough to get it done. And now that his career is nearing an end, he's too short-term focused You are much closer to the situation than I. What are they saying in Denver? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League_Champion Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 8 hours ago, michaelredd9 said: That'll hurt a bit if they can't trade him for a conditional 7th round pick. But I'd pay an extra $7 million for Flacco. Maybe you're right that they should just rebuild. But I'm not going to fault Elway for being competitive and trying to win this year. In the NBA, teams intentionally tank in order to rebuild. General Managers don't do that in the NFL. They sign a stop-gap quarterback while trying to develop another. I would still think Keenum has some value. A lot of teams will be transitioning to young QB's and could use a stop gap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplemonster Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, michaelredd9 said: This whole quarterback thing is more complicated than anyone here thinks. Fantasy footballers think that being an NFL GM is easy. Teams go many years without a franchise quarterback but people here think it is easy to get one. Baker Mayfield seems legit. Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, and Josh Allen might not be franchise quarterbacks. Or they might be. Time will tell. And if they fail, you all will say how stupid the GM was for drafting them. John Elway has not invested much draft capital into the quarterback position. His failings have been gambles. Maybe John Elway has had too much confidence in himself similar to the people in this forum. I don't think it is easy but there are obviously people who make better personnel decisions than others. Osweiler for a hot second looked like a decent QB during that SB run. But after more games it became pretty clear he didn't have it. Siemian never had it. Josh Allen was not accurate in college, I do not know why people thought he would be in the pros. Mayfield Darnold etc are tough to know. Clearly Mayfield looks to be legit but he was a question mark out of college. I give the Browns credit for seeing what other people did not. Others, like Bortles, was never very good. I have no clue why the Jags invested in him. Contrary to what you might think I do think there are people on here I would trust more than at least some of these GM'S. Edited February 14, 2019 by purplemonster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League_Champion Posted February 15, 2019 Author Share Posted February 15, 2019 One thing we do know is that Flacco can't play. Ask the Ravens. But why does Elway think Flacco is any better than Keenum at this point? His over evaluation of quarterbacks is alarming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 16 hours ago, League_Champion said: One thing we do know is that Flacco can't play. Ask the Ravens. But why does Elway think Flacco is any better than Keenum at this point? His over evaluation of quarterbacks is alarming. Could Flacco play last year? Or at the beginning of this year? Did he suddenly suck one day and so anybody else was better? Or did they draft a QB high that the team decided was their future and would eventually take over for Flacco who was never a truly elite (HOF type) QB. Was Montana no longer capable of playing when Young replaced him? Seriously your wide sweeping generalizations make you sound like the typical sports talk guys. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League_Champion Posted February 15, 2019 Author Share Posted February 15, 2019 18 minutes ago, stevegrab said: Could Flacco play last year? Or at the beginning of this year? Did he suddenly suck one day and so anybody else was better? Or did they draft a QB high that the team decided was their future and would eventually take over for Flacco who was never a truly elite (HOF type) QB. Was Montana no longer capable of playing when Young replaced him? Seriously your wide sweeping generalizations make you sound like the typical sports talk guys. He's sucked for several years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelredd9 Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 (edited) It is easy to criticize. It is easy to look at things in retrospect with 20/20 vision. Getting a franchise quarterback is not easy. Elway gave up a 4th round pick to acquire Flacco and his salary is about the same as Keenum's. It is an insignificant move. The far more important question is whether Denver drafts a quarterback in the 1st round of this year's draft. Last year the Cardinals signed Bradford to an $16 million contract and drafted Rosenrosen. The Browns traded a high 3rd round pick for Tyrod and his $16 million contract and drafted Mayfield. The Jets signed Josh McCown to a $10 million contract and drafted Darnold. Trading for Flacco is a nothing burger. A question to the people criticizing the move: who should Elway have signed instead? Edited February 15, 2019 by michaelredd9 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Def. Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 23 minutes ago, michaelredd9 said: A question to the people criticizing the move: who should Elway have signed instead? A question to that question, why did he have to sign anyone? When I have manure, and my only other options are manure, I'm not going to give up or spend more for different manure. Makes no sense when I'm use to the scent of the manure I have by now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelredd9 Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 1 minute ago, Def. said: A question to that question, why did he have to sign anyone? When I have manure, and my only other options are manure, I'm not going to give up or spend more for different manure. Makes no sense when I'm use to the scent of the manure I have by now. Flacco might be manure but he has a higher ceiling than Keenum. A 4th round pick has little value compared to the quarterback position. Teams in the NFL generally don't go into a season with the intention of tanking. I'm glad they don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League_Champion Posted February 15, 2019 Author Share Posted February 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, Def. said: A question to that question, why did he have to sign anyone? When I have manure, and my only other options are manure, I'm not going to give up or spend more for different manure. Makes no sense when I'm use to the scent of the manure I have by now. I couldn't agree more. For some reason King Elway thought Case Keenum was the guy, even though we all knew he was a career backup. So now he digs up another average QB who's on the back nine of his career and expects magic. Tell me what you think is gonna happen?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League_Champion Posted February 15, 2019 Author Share Posted February 15, 2019 Just now, michaelredd9 said: Flacco might be manure but he has a higher ceiling than Keenum. A 4th round pick has little value compared to the quarterback position. Teams in the NFL generally don't go into a season with the intention of tanking. I'm glad they don't. Why did Elway think Keenum was the guy? We knew he wasn't. Did he something different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelredd9 Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, League_Champion said: Why did Elway think Keenum was the guy? We knew he wasn't. Did he something different? Keenum had a pretty good season in Minnesota. 22 touchdowns vs 7 interceptions for a 98.3 quarterback rating. But what free agent quarterback should Elway have signed instead of Keenum? Edited February 15, 2019 by michaelredd9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League_Champion Posted February 15, 2019 Author Share Posted February 15, 2019 Just now, michaelredd9 said: Keenum had a pretty good season in Minnesota. 22 touchdowns vs 7 interceptions for a 98.3 quarterback rating. But what free agent quarterback should have signed instead of Keenum? He should have drafted a good one years ago like everyone else. Why sign a different free agent every year?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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