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Advice on League Trading Bully


TheEhTeam
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A trade was just made in my league and I don't like it as I feel it favors a player that always gets the better of the less intense players in the league. It's a pretty pricey league and this same guy has pissed some of our other competitive players off in previous years because his trade bring him from average to far and away best team. Perhaps this is the issue with big money leagues when everyone's not uber competitive. Or I just need to go FFPC mode and get the commish to remove trading. Anyways, if you see reason to veto this vote, feed it to me so I have maximum fire power! If there's good reason and half the league vetos, it can be undone. Not sure if this is drastic enough and don't want to be an ass so if it's too close to equal, tell me I'm wrong on this. 
Predator gives: Chubb, Michel, Godwin, Hilton, Kittle, Patriots
Prey gives: CMC, Kamara, Thielen, Kupp, Graham, Bears
 
My reasoning for distaste here is:
Chubb's next 3 games are putrid and Hunt's practicing, will be back week 10. I know there are mixed opinions on this but Hunt didn't suddenly become trash. It's a big ole question mark.
Michel's got Burkhead coming back and honestly, what has he gotten this year outside of volume? His YPC is trash. He's nothing without a TD.
CMC alone is worth Chubb and Michel with his insane usage in my opinion.
Godwin>Thielen especially with hamstring but WR is far more saturated than RB. We have Stills, C Davis, A Brown, D Hamilton on waiver if he needs a fill in while Thielen sits on IR (our league offer 2 extra spots for guys on IR for $5 a week).
Hilton is equivalent to Kupp IMO.
Kittle is a huge upgrade but he'll lose more with his loss at RB
It was a well known fact that Pats 1-7 schedule was a cake walk. 1 more easy game then 5 testy offenses. Obvious upgrade to Bears who aren't what they were and have a tough schedule ahead but defenses are streamable... Especially when it means keeping CMC and Kamara. Okay, I'll shut up. I want your input, not mine! Thanks guys
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Agree with the first response. Unless there’s obvious collusion, never veto because it’s not seen as fair in your eyes. This trade doesn’t seem that far off to me with the injuries taken into account, one guy may need to win now and the other is looking towards the playoffs.

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39 minutes ago, slambo said:

I don't see a problem..only sour grapes, worry about your team, veto's suck

Fair Enough, thanks for the input. I guess I am being sour. 

My real issue here is one with trading mixed with competitive leagues I guess. The guy that makes the most trades wins. If I shoot my shot at the other 11 guys weekly for all the buy lows and my sell highs, I'll win. I don't put enough time into it to do this. We just need a trade limit for next year is all.

33 minutes ago, matmoe3 said:

Agree with the first response. Unless there’s obvious collusion, never veto because it’s not seen as fair in your eyes. This trade doesn’t seem that far off to me with the injuries taken into account, one guy may need to win now and the other is looking towards the playoffs.

Good point. Poor choice of words; I'm not the commish. I wanted to start a vote for veto but will take your advice instead. The guy with injuries had other outlets to maintain his team with waiver but I can't project my logic onto others. 

35 minutes ago, Shaft said:

I've seen worse trades, at least both are exchanging quality players. The predator is doing what any of us would do, throw out a pig with a little lipstick and see if someone kisses it. 

Good point. Yes well all do it. I wouldn't have gone sour about it had this not happened 4 years in a row now. One of the guys panics and trades with predator. Learning lesson to take more advantage of people in limitless trading leagues.

12 minutes ago, squirrelmastr21 said:

Don’t bring this winey garbage here. Sore loser.

Well if I hadn't brought it here, I wouldn't have known I was in the wrong! 

 

13 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

i think really active traders are sometimes considered a bully. I have been insulted in every communication method by leaguemates for trades I've made over the years. I'd like to be considered a genius, but the truth is, some of my best trades were simply offered to me. Leaguemates still got pissed off, even when lopsided trades were offered

maybe your bully is just active and stumbles upon good trades because he's so active?

Yes, this is the key. It hadn't really occurred to me as I only joined this league a year ago. I mostly played FFPC and a tradeless yahoo league beforehand. I've made 3 trades this year, he's made like 7. Most trades = best chance of winning if going with the logic: Lets make each others teams better. I truly just thought this was a manure trade but as pointed out above, I'm in the wrong.

I said bully to shorten the title. I don't actually think he's a bully. The goal of trading is to take advantage. I just wanted to get input on whether this trade was as manure as I thought it was. Thanks 

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3 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

well, yes and no.

The guy sitting at third base with 12 who hits and gets 10, then the dealer showing a 6 gets a 4 and beats your 19... is that really your fault for sitting at that table? In other words, bad players can ruin YOUR game by their poor choices.

Hahlol, great analogy. But I did willingly pay in with full knowledge of the rules. My problem in the end

 

11 minutes ago, joeyb7 said:

Don’t like the trade?  Don’t accept it. If others don’t accept his trades is he going to steal their lunch money?  If other owners willingly jump into a money league and don’t know what they’re doing then that’s their problem. 

Yeah, it's a slippery slope I guess. I've tried taking advantage of him, he's tried taking advantage of me. It's not easy because our study methods are seemingly sufficient. I would've never considered making such an offer. Another lesson learned: When in limitless trade league, seek large trades with injured studs included when your team is stacked.

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5 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

did the rules say that some of the owners suck? I'm saying it's not fully your fault that you're stuck in a league with pigeons

Commish forgot to list that tidbit. I thought it was more competitive coming in with the buy in and how serious some of these guys seemed. I stand corrected. Thanks for the vote of confidence. Yes, a few tacos and pigeons in the bunch it seems

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I'm most likely in the minority here, but I think I like what 'the Prey' is getting (except Michel...unless he keeps getting to literally fall into endzone), more than what 'the Predator' is getting. I'm not 100% sure how these trades will impact your team as the season keeps going, but I think it's an alright deal.

 

It also helps, when asking advice/opinions, to let us know what kind of league it is (Standard, PPR, Roster settings, etc). Bonuses or any weighted positions, if pertinent. Every league is different. For me, I'm now down to about half a dozen leagues now, but one has 'no trades', one has 'limited transactions', another is a 'trading orgy' (like 3-4 different trades each week', while the rest are pretty normal. Like I said above, 'the predator' isn't trying to fleece the other dude with simply scrubs or injured players. He's just probably analyzing things (like you do), and that's probably one of the reasons he isn't trading with you on this one. You make it too hard to get a deal done with all your 'counterpoints', so to speak. I trade all the time and I'm all over the waiver wire in some leagues, while in others I barely make any moves...it just depends. If my constant manipulation of my roster bugs you, then good for me. Don't be distracted by what I'm doing, because as long as you are, you offer no competition to what I may be able to offer/get from another player. I make is easy for THEM to approach me about a trade, whereas they might not even consider approaching you with one, because you wish to make a point/counterpoint on each individual player. ('You' in this part isn't necessarily referring to YOU, but in a general example)

Nobody on my team is ever untouchable, although acquiring certain players 'is going to hurt'. Sometimes I get burned, but I most always stay competitive and in the thick of things. I try to draft well, and while others fall in love with their drafted players, that's really just the beginning of the fun for me. The moves (if necessary, make it fun for me).

 

Yeah, and I can't stand non-competitive leagues. It gets really boring when only half the league cares after about week 5 or 6...BUT I still have no reservations about taking their money. 🙂

Edited by Chaim Witz
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1 hour ago, LordOpie said:

well, yes and no.

The guy sitting at third base with 12 who hits and gets 10, then the dealer showing a 6 gets a 4 and beats your 19... is that really your fault for sitting at that table? In other words, bad players can ruin YOUR game by their poor choices.

Statistically other players choices in blackjack, good or bad are the same to you over the long haul. 

In this scenario it is not quite the same because everyone is competing for the same prize and one person's advancement clearly does impact the rest.  

That said, I dpn't find anything majorly objectable about the trade.  I would definitely prefer the 2nd team but it's not completely lopsided.  The last two in particular distinctly favor the prey, but I think that is more than outweighed by the first two.  The middle two receivers are a wash. You might need to find more savvy leaguemates if it bothers you enough.

Edited by purplemonster
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4 hours ago, TheEhTeam said:

The guy that makes the most trades wins. If I shoot my shot at the other 11 guys weekly for all the buy lows and my sell highs, I'll win. I don't put enough time into it to do this. We just need a trade limit for next year is all.

 

You don't have the time to put into it to be that competitive so your solution is to impose a trade limit to restrict others? 

 

Life is competitive, win or get out of the way. 

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8 hours ago, Roamingbull said:

If he trades and gets the strongest team that's the point right? Im missing something. 

 

Time to sack up and do better trade management. My bet is there won't be issues if your the guy on top. If others fail, not your problem. Manage your team. 

 

Apparently the basic beef is "this guys is good at what he does and wins a lot, I'm too lazy to put in the effort and I feel screwed"

 

Must be a millennial 

 

PS  Who is doing the confused and sad reactions to the truthful posts?  Must be more people who think that every team should win regularly, maybe that should be part of the rules, like a 10 point weekly deduction for the defending champ. 

Edited by stevegrab
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12 hours ago, TheEhTeam said:

 

My real issue here is one with trading mixed with competitive leagues I guess. The guy that makes the most trades wins. If I shoot my shot at the other 11 guys weekly for all the buy lows and my sell highs, I'll win. I don't put enough time into it to do this. We just need a trade limit for next year is all.

 

 

This is definitely not true - plenty of leagues where the guy that does the most trades still loses, sounds like you are not that experienced in leagues that allow trades, not do you seem motivated enough to put in the level of effort required for competitive leagues that require trades. Trade limit is a stupid idea.

 

Sounds like you should stick with FFPC type leagues. I love my FFPC leagues as they require minimal effort beyond looking at free agents on Wednesdays and setting lineups, however they are not nearly as exciting for me as my more competitive leagues with trades, dynasty/keepers, etc. simply because the added level of complexity adds more strategy and required thought, and while I play in some leagues that have owners that are extremely active all year, I know I am at a slight disadvantage because I can't bring myself to be fully focused on it in the middle of March.

 

In sum, based on this comment from you, the issue is not the league, it is you, and I don't mean that in a negative way, just in that your personality and approach is likely not a great fit for a truly competitive league,

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The trade looks Okay to me.

 

It takes stones to trade high value players and get other in return.

 

Your or other team owners reasons may differ from the two trading teams views.  One or both are taking risks depending on which of the many points there will be for any given player.

 

If an owner has a good sale pitch and positive points to get the trade agreed to then GREAT!!!

 

I agree with other comments that active traders do not always win.  Injuries are very unpredictable and can happen in a game, at practice, or at the player's home.

 

Trading is what make FFL fun.  Many are simply to worried about making a mistake and are hesitant to pull the trigger, make an offer, or a counter-offer.

 

In one of my leagues that owners involved and commish are excluded and the vote has to be 100% of owners that are left for it to be vetoed.  It has not happened yet.  A few attempts during all my years playing, but none close to being overturned.  

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16 hours ago, TheEhTeam said:

Fair Enough, thanks for the input. I guess I am being sour. 

My real issue here is one with trading mixed with competitive leagues I guess. The guy that makes the most trades wins. If I shoot my shot at the other 11 guys weekly for all the buy lows and my sell highs, I'll win. I don't put enough time into it to do this. We just need a trade limit for next year is all.

Good point. Poor choice of words; I'm not the commish. I wanted to start a vote for veto but will take your advice instead. The guy with injuries had other outlets to maintain his team with waiver but I can't project my logic onto others. 

Good point. Yes well all do it. I wouldn't have gone sour about it had this not happened 4 years in a row now. One of the guys panics and trades with predator. Learning lesson to take more advantage of people in limitless trading leagues.

Well if I hadn't brought it here, I wouldn't have known I was in the wrong! 

 

Yes, this is the key. It hadn't really occurred to me as I only joined this league a year ago. I mostly played FFPC and a tradeless yahoo league beforehand. I've made 3 trades this year, he's made like 7. Most trades = best chance of winning if going with the logic: Lets make each others teams better. I truly just thought this was a manure trade but as pointed out above, I'm in the wrong.

I said bully to shorten the title. I don't actually think he's a bully. The goal of trading is to take advantage. I just wanted to get input on whether this trade was as manure as I thought it was. Thanks 

 

It hadn't really occurred to me as I only joined this league a year ago

 

Wait.... this is your first year, but you're complaining this has happened the last 4 years?

 

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3 hours ago, Big Country said:

 

This is definitely not true - plenty of leagues where the guy that does the most trades still loses, sounds like you are not that experienced in leagues that allow trades, not do you seem motivated enough to put in the level of effort required for competitive leagues that require trades. Trade limit is a stupid idea.

 

Sounds like you should stick with FFPC type leagues. I love my FFPC leagues as they require minimal effort beyond looking at free agents on Wednesdays and setting lineups, however they are not nearly as exciting for me as my more competitive leagues with trades, dynasty/keepers, etc. simply because the added level of complexity adds more strategy and required thought, and while I play in some leagues that have owners that are extremely active all year, I know I am at a slight disadvantage because I can't bring myself to be fully focused on it in the middle of March.

 

In sum, based on this comment from you, the issue is not the league, it is you, and I don't mean that in a negative way, just in that your personality and approach is likely not a great fit for a truly competitive league,

 

What is this FFPC you speak of?  How is it different than regular FF?  /hijack

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No such thing as a fair trade. While some in your league might call him a bully, other people might call him savvy. So many dynamics in trades. Hard to predict who will benefit the most but like others have said, it's not so uneven as to veto it. Vetoing trades is messy and ends up eliminating the fun factor in that league. I say let it go and focus on improving your team.

 

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On 10/23/2019 at 11:23 PM, TheEhTeam said:

Hahlol, great analogy. But I did willingly pay in with full knowledge of the rules. My problem in the end

 

Yeah, it's a slippery slope I guess. I've tried taking advantage of him, he's tried taking advantage of me. It's not easy because our study methods are seemingly sufficient. I would've never considered making such an offer. Another lesson learned: When in limitless trade league, seek large trades with injured studs included when your team is stacked.

 

What qualifies as taking advantage?  By definition, each owner "wins" the trade in their own mind, or why else would they make the trade?  This entire whine-fest is simply about differing opinions.

 

FFS I just looked at the trade and the "predator" gave up Chubb, Godwin, Hilton, and Kittle and you're complaining???  JFC man, seriously.  I don't even like Godwin and can't believe you're bringing this.

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