flemingd

All-play BOTH league?

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Anyone interested in a league that either does all-play instead of head-to-head or plays head-to-head but uses all-play for things like playoff wildcard/draft order?  I have long hated HTH because luck of matchup plays a lot larger part in record than team strength does.  I can find just about any team in any league and make them either undefeated or winless just by re-arranging the weekly schedule.  But all-play tells no lies (good league name) - the teams with the best scoring show out and the pretenders are exposed.  Here's one example:

 

http://www68.myfantasyleague.com/2019/options?L=34884&O=101&SORT=ALLPLAY

 

Grey Ducks is 3-4 despite being the 2nd highest all-play record.  If the season ended today he wouldn't make the playoffs in most leagues.

 

http://www64.myfantasyleague.com/2019/options?L=47374&O=101&SORT=ALLPLAY

 

And there's a 5-2 team that's just gotten really lucky with who they have played and would be in despite clearly being one of the weaker teams.

 

http://www67.myfantasyleague.com/2019/options?L=18400&O=101&SORT=ALLPLAY

 

4-3 team would win their division but the 2nd WORST team in the league on a regular basis (haha sorry Def).

 

Not to mention how much more reflective it is for determining draft order and how it makes tanking a whole lot harder/less effective.

 

So, anyone interested?  I'd think to just copy the typical BOTH league template (Fusion/ATAP/Warz) rules-wise and just tweak it for all-play rules.  Dynasty IDP, 40 man + taxi type format.  12 or 16 man as interest dictates.

 

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14 minutes ago, flemingd said:

Anyone interested in a league that either does all-play instead of head-to-head or plays head-to-head but uses all-play for things like playoff wildcard/draft order?  I have long hated HTH because luck of matchup plays a lot larger part in record than team strength does.  I can find just about any team in any league and make them either undefeated or winless just by re-arranging the weekly schedule.  But all-play tells no lies (good league name) - the teams with the best scoring show out and the pretenders are exposed.  Here's one example:

 

http://www68.myfantasyleague.com/2019/options?L=34884&O=101&SORT=ALLPLAY

 

Grey Ducks is 3-4 despite being the 2nd highest all-play record.  If the season ended today he wouldn't make the playoffs in most leagues.

 

http://www64.myfantasyleague.com/2019/options?L=47374&O=101&SORT=ALLPLAY

 

And there's a 5-2 team that's just gotten really lucky with who they have played and would be in despite clearly being one of the weaker teams.

 

http://www67.myfantasyleague.com/2019/options?L=18400&O=101&SORT=ALLPLAY

 

4-3 team would win their division but the 2nd WORST team in the league on a regular basis *this year* (haha sorry Def).

 

Not to mention how much more reflective it is for determining draft order and how it makes tanking a whole lot harder/less effective.

 

So, anyone interested?  I'd think to just copy the typical BOTH league template (Fusion/ATAP/Warz) rules-wise and just tweak it for all-play rules.  Dynasty IDP, 40 man + taxi type format.  12 or 16 man as interest dictates.

 

 

Fixed*.  Also constantly going against people not submitting full lineups and me not being that kind of person doesn't help.  All play's well and good, but tanking is far bigger problem than luck of schedule IMO.  

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I like playing in a diverse set of leagues because all league types have their issues. "Being lucky" is a big part of fantasy football especially when your opponent's team just doesn't perform. In addition, I do like people setting their lineups as a big part of the H2H component. Just like you have boom or bust players, you have boom or bust teams and a team's overall point total can be heavily weighted in a few weeks of play vs a team who's been constant throughout the season. 

 

I think "head-to-head but uses all-play for things like playoff wildcard/draft order" is a great compromise and I would definitely be on board for something like that. 

 

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I'm interested to hear more.

 

If assigning and managing contract years and cap are added I am out.  That is a little to much for me to manage just for one of the handful of teams I play every year.

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3 hours ago, Def. said:

 

Fixed*.  Also constantly going against people not submitting full lineups and me not being that kind of person doesn't help.  All play's well and good, but tanking is far bigger problem than luck of schedule IMO.  

 

Oh I disagree a ton.  If a guy like SL tanks out a lineup in HTH he ends up losing an entire game and his opponent gets an entire win - that's 1/13th of the season swinging.  In all-play though, he may only pick up 1-2 extra losses while his opponent only gets 1 extra win out of a possible 14 on the week - that's 1/182nd of the season.  Put a different way, an owner that successfully tanks a game might end up 2-11 vs. 3-12 in HTH and with tie-breakers maybe move up 2-4 spots in draft order, but he isn't going to "gain" nearly as much ground in all-play.  Randomly picking FDSB 2018 final standings:

 

http://www68.myfantasyleague.com/2018/options?L=34884&O=101&SORT=ALLPLAY

 

The smallest gap between owners is 8 wins.  That would require a lot of manipulation just to gain one draft slot and frankly, that's a rule/commish problem if it's happening that much.

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We did this years ago. I think there may have been 10 of us. (or 12 - can't remember)

 

We did 10 drafts. The draft order shifted every draft so you could draft from each position of the draft. And it was then an All-Play league the rest of the season. No waivers, no trades. You played with who you got. So basically 10 separate leagues. 

 

It was fun. 

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Well I'm not talking about Best Ball here.  Owners would still set lineups.  And I would intend this to be an ongoing full-on dynasty with trades, waivers, rookie drafts, etc. although I suppose we could look at any option people were interested in. 

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2 minutes ago, flemingd said:

Well I'm not talking about Best Ball here.  Owners would still set lineups.  And I would intend this to be an ongoing full-on dynasty with trades, waivers, rookie drafts, etc. although I suppose we could look at any option people were interested in. 

 

But you're only one small step away, you want to eliminate all concerns you could take the leap.  Regardless I'll stop messing up your thread.  Good luck on this. 

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1 minute ago, Def. said:

 

But you're only one small step away, you want to eliminate all concerns you could take the leap.  Regardless I'll stop messing up your thread.  Good luck on this. 

 

Nah it's fine, good discussion.  I think Best Ball is a totally different concept.  All Play is to remove the random schedule gremlins of "if I played him I lose but if I played anyone else in the league I would have won".  Best Ball is fine, it just changes the roster focus is all - especially how you manage the bench.  You can't just load up the starting lineup and deal with depth problems when they arise, you need to have a lot better balance in Best Ball.

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I'd be interested if this was a redraft.  No time for another dynasty.  

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If were talking unique formats, I wouldn't mind doing a "Guillotine" or "Survivor" style league (whatever nomenclature you prefer, have seen both used) next season. Ideal setup is 16 teams, each week, the lowest scoring team is eliminated until finally in week 16 only 2 teams remain and 1 ends the week as the champion.

 

Interesting concept to me, but the big risk is obviously having interest the following year if you are the owner eliminated in week one or two. Perhaps come up with some way to include the eliminated teams in a separate contest throughout the season, maybe a token weekly prize for highest score among eliminated teams.

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2 hours ago, Big Country said:

If were talking unique formats, I wouldn't mind doing a "Guillotine" or "Survivor" style league (whatever nomenclature you prefer, have seen both used) next season. Ideal setup is 16 teams, each week, the lowest scoring team is eliminated until finally in week 16 only 2 teams remain and 1 ends the week as the champion.

 

That would be a 17 team league.

 

Fond thoughts 2000-2015 when we started the first of this kind (HEFFA - Huddle Elimination Free For All) - 18 team best ball elimination league. I only won once - in the final season.

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