1fastdoc Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 If a team is 5-6 at this point in the season, what's the point of trying to win? It just hurts draft position for the following season. I guess one argument would be to maintain attendance at games? We have teams in our dynasty league that have no real chance of making the playoffs so, while they're playing active players, I'm not sure I'd fault them for starting a weak RB1 like Melvin Gordon over a strong one like Cook. More commonly what we see is dropping mediocre older players for young guys with breakout potential next year. I feel like Miami has been doing just that. But in the NFL, do the Bengals or Dolphins want to win a game at this point when it only hurts them next year? Obviously they still try. One could make an ethical argument that trying to win is damaging the team's future potential and, as such, it is unethical to play their best players and try to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 I think teams do tank, absolutely, though they may not think in those terms (out loud anyway). In rebuilding a team, the reality is that most guys of any note have about 3 good years or so - one contract. If a guy won't likely be around next year, then it makes sense to trade him away and backfill with cheaper options. Just because you pick in the top 5 picks doesn't mean you'll get it right. Just like fantasy drafts, at least half of the rookies won't meet expectations and there are millions at stake to get it right. And even with the one player - does that make a team instantly significantly better? I think bad teams will strip down so they can load up better the next year - free agents included. And avoid pricey contracts that are not going to stick around. I think it is more about infusing youth, getting guys who will be new and better at buying into the scheme. So yeah, teams do not field the most competitive teams this year in the hopes that they can next year. But draft picks are just a small part of the equation IMO. Basically, suck and you get to pick just one player that may be better than the ones that follow in the draft. In NFL terms, there is nothing wrong with it but if you put a 0-16 team out there, the next year better be spectacular. Lots of coaches only last one or two years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 I think, too often, people confuse what management is doing with what the players/coaches want to accomplish. The players want to win. Ask any former NFL player, and they'll tell you that the idea that players play to lose (for the purpose of a better draft pick next year) is absolutely ridiculous. It's a cuttroat business. For 75% of them, their jobs are on the line. Same with the coaches.... Go 0-16, and there's no guarantee you're coming back the next year, particularly if you're underachieving. Every year, we hear about some team "tanking." This year, there have been several. First, it was Miami. Then, people said the Bengals, Jets, and even the Broncos were rumored to be "in the running" for the #1 pick. Nine times out of ten (maybe more, actually), the "tanking" teams end up winning games. And, most of those times, they beat teams that aren't even in the tanking conversation. If they were truly tanking, that wouldn't happen. So, yeah, GM's put their teams in a position to rebuild, through selling off players that can't really help long-term, or players who are doing more harm than good, contract-wise, etc. But, at the end of the day, every coach and group of players is trying to win each and every week. If they don't, they'll be replaced. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaft Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Tanking = Starting Kalen Ballage 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 17 minutes ago, Shaft said: Tanking = Starting Kalen Ballage No, tanking may have been trading away Drake. Ballage is the best of what they have left at the position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaft Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, Gopher said: No, tanking may have been trading away Drake. Ballage is the best of what they have left at the position. Well, that's my point. Trading away Drake and then inserting Ballage in the starting lineup. Drake was the best offensive weapon and they didn't use him, so now they are playing their "best" in the position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Just now, Shaft said: Well, that's my point. Trading away Drake and then inserting Ballage in the starting lineup. Drake was the best offensive weapon and they didn't use him, so now they are playing their "best" in the position. Right. All I'm saying is that, when people say that "teams" tank, all too often it gets misinterpretted. Coaches and players don't tank for better draft position. General management/ownership does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolverines Fan Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1fastdoc Posted November 21, 2019 Author Share Posted November 21, 2019 14 hours ago, Shaft said: Well, that's my point. Trading away Drake and then inserting Ballage in the starting lineup. Drake was the best offensive weapon and they didn't use him, so now they are playing their "best" in the position. 14 hours ago, Gopher said: Right. All I'm saying is that, when people say that "teams" tank, all too often it gets misinterpretted. Coaches and players don't tank for better draft position. General management/ownership does. Miami seems to want to trade away people with great potential who don't fit their scheme instead of developing and exploiting their innate talents. Drake and Ajayi being good examples. I bet if CMC played for Miami he'd be putting up mediocre numbers relative to his current production and would be a RB2/3 at best. I see what you're saying about teams/coaches vs management. It makes me think of the movie Major League. It's got to be damn discouraging for some of those guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 8 hours ago, Wolverines Fan said: Well if some guy tweeted it then it must be a fact I recognize the name, but not sure what makes him an NFL expert, or anybody whose opinion matters. That is part of the issue with these "teams are tanking" stories, most of it starts with the media, and I use that term lightly since anybody with a smart phone can be a blogger, Tweeter, etc and label themselves an expert. Even the top industry guys like Schefter are wrong quite a bit, of course they'll never admit it even when they bribe medical people to release personal information on a patient (JPPs hand xray after he had firecracker taking fingers off). The other half of the problem is fans, they eat this stuff up and repeat it. Or they sit on their coaches munching on snacks and getting drunk thinking they're an expert by calling out guys saying they play with no heart of spirit, because it makes them feel good. Players hate losing, during the Browns game when they led 14-7 and Steelers looked like they might tie it, Baker Mayfield looked rather depressed on the sideline, like he was expecting to lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League_Champion Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 17 hours ago, Gopher said: Right. All I'm saying is that, when people say that "teams" tank, all too often it gets misinterpretted. Coaches and players don't tank for better draft position. General management/ownership does. True, tanking is easy when you have a crappy roster. Miami may suck but they now have tons of assets to move around over the next couple years. TREVOR LAWRENCE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 2 hours ago, League_Champion said: True, tanking is easy when you have a crappy roster. Miami may suck but they now have tons of assets to move around over the next couple years. TREVOR LAWRENCE I'd rather have Jennifer Lawrence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 1 hour ago, stevegrab said: I'd rather have Jennifer Lawrence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League_Champion Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 3 hours ago, stevegrab said: I'd rather have Jennifer Lawrence There's a girl whose been on TV that looks just like him. I'll try to find her pic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League_Champion Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 3 hours ago, stevegrab said: I'd rather have Jennifer Lawrence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana is da Man Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, League_Champion said: Wait, that's not him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League_Champion Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, Montana is da Man said: Wait, that's not him? This girl looks just like him, it's hilarious. Edited November 22, 2019 by League_Champion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana is da Man Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 20 minutes ago, League_Champion said: This girl looks just like him, it's hilarious. She looks more like him then Ronnie "Sunshine" Bass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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