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Colts vs Saints (MNF)


League_Champion
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13 hours ago, League_Champion said:

Why do they keep taking Hilton out on passing downs?? 

 

Must be because he's perfectly healthy and absolutely not on a pitch count ;) 

 

12 hours ago, Red Storm said:

Why isn’t anyone mentioning Thomas in mvp category this season?  

 

Who was the last non QB to win MVP?  I cannot remember, it has become the best QB award.

 

10 hours ago, Montana is da Man said:

29 completions on 30 attempts......that's ridiculously impressive

 

His career completion percentage of 67.6% is off the charts, the last 4 (inc 2019) are 70% or better, he led the league in that stat 2009-11, 2017-19

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3 hours ago, stevegrab said:

Who was the last non QB to win MVP?  I cannot remember, it has become the best QB award.

 

 

His career completion percentage of 67.6% is off the charts, the last 4 (inc 2019) are 70% or better, he led the league in that stat 2009-11, 2017-19

 

Has a wr ever won the mvp?

 

Those % are ridiculous.   He needs to be in the top 5 qbs of all time discussion.

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31 minutes ago, Montana is da Man said:

 

Has a wr ever won the mvp?

 

Those % are ridiculous.   He needs to be in the top 5 qbs of all time discussion.

 

No argument from me, but these top X lists get rather hard, especially when you say all time. The game has changed a ton over the decades. I hear great QBs like Bart Starr and Otto Graham in discussions but have no clue how good they were. Let alone guys from before the modern era like Sammy Bough or Sid Luckman. Even guys in the Staubach era were ones I'm not as familiar with, as I wasn't watching a ton of football until I was an adult in the 80s. 

 

Not even sure who my top 5 would be for say the last 30 years, I start making a list then realize somebody got left off. Just with last 15-20 I'd have Brady Brees, Peyton, Favre and Montana. But I'm leaving out Young, Elway, Marino and others. 

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46 minutes ago, stevegrab said:

 

No argument from me, but these top X lists get rather hard, especially when you say all time. The game has changed a ton over the decades. I hear great QBs like Bart Starr and Otto Graham in discussions but have no clue how good they were. Let alone guys from before the modern era like Sammy Bough or Sid Luckman. Even guys in the Staubach era were ones I'm not as familiar with, as I wasn't watching a ton of football until I was an adult in the 80s. 

 

Not even sure who my top 5 would be for say the last 30 years, I start making a list then realize somebody got left off. Just with last 15-20 I'd have Brady Brees, Peyton, Favre and Montana. But I'm leaving out Young, Elway, Marino and others. 

 

I love Brees but he's not top 5 for me. He played most of his games indoors and rarely had to play in cold or bad conditions. Say what you want but Tom Brady won a lot of games outdoors in terrible weather. So have the old timers. Sorry Drew. 

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1 hour ago, stevegrab said:

 

No argument from me, but these top X lists get rather hard, especially when you say all time. The game has changed a ton over the decades. I hear great QBs like Bart Starr and Otto Graham in discussions but have no clue how good they were. Let alone guys from before the modern era like Sammy Bough or Sid Luckman. Even guys in the Staubach era were ones I'm not as familiar with, as I wasn't watching a ton of football until I was an adult in the 80s. 

 

Not even sure who my top 5 would be for say the last 30 years, I start making a list then realize somebody got left off. Just with last 15-20 I'd have Brady Brees, Peyton, Favre and Montana. But I'm leaving out Young, Elway, Marino and others. 

Yeah it's a good point. I can really only tell you who I think is good or not good, or relative tiers, but as far as all-time greats it's pretty hard comparing different generations. It would be fun if there was a way to directly compare them but even to do that they would all have to start at a young age.  It wouldn't be fair to take Sammy Baugh and plop him down in the modern NFL even with a few years.  Even Michael Vick may have had a better career had he played today with different systems.

Edited by purplemonster
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2 hours ago, League_Champion said:

 

I love Brees but he's not top 5 for me. He played most of his games indoors and rarely had to play in cold or bad conditions. Say what you want but Tom Brady won a lot of games outdoors in terrible weather. So have the old timers. Sorry Drew. 

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-no-dome-no-worries-drew-brees-is-more-than-just-a-product-of-the-mercedes-benz-superdome

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1 hour ago, purplemonster said:

Yeah it's a good point. I can really only tell you who I think is good or not good, or relative tiers, but as far as all-time greats it's pretty hard comparing different generations. It would be fun if there was a way to directly compare them but even to do that they would all have to start at a young age.  It wouldn't be fair to take Sammy Baugh and plop him down in the modern NFL even with a few years.  Even Michael Vick may have had a better career had he played today with different systems.

Guys like Brady, Manning, Rodgers and Brees would be all-time greats in any era of football. I don't think you could say the same about many players from the past.

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3 hours ago, stevegrab said:

 

No argument from me, but these top X lists get rather hard, especially when you say all time. The game has changed a ton over the decades. I hear great QBs like Bart Starr and Otto Graham in discussions but have no clue how good they were. Let alone guys from before the modern era like Sammy Bough or Sid Luckman. Even guys in the Staubach era were ones I'm not as familiar with, as I wasn't watching a ton of football until I was an adult in the 80s. 

 

Not even sure who my top 5 would be for say the last 30 years, I start making a list then realize somebody got left off. Just with last 15-20 I'd have Brady Brees, Peyton, Favre and Montana. But I'm leaving out Young, Elway, Marino and others. 

 

 

It is completely subjective.  What is the main determination?  Super bowl rings?  Playoff wins?  Touch downs?  Least interceptions?  

 

People call Eli an all time great, but outside of those 2 playoff that ended in super bowl MVP's for him, he never won a playoff game.  Did he just have two good playoff runs or is he an all time great?

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