Eli Manning retiring...

[stevegrab]

6 minutes ago, irish said:

It's obvious. 

 

How many people are paying you for your football knowledge?

[irish]

10 minutes ago, stevegrab said:

 

How many people are paying you for your football knowledge?

Zero, so we agree, DMD is more knowledgeable about football. Why the continued questioning?  I said it was obvious. You alright?

[irish]

FISH ON!!

[League_Champion]

Being a fan of an NFC East team I was able to see a lot of Eli. I don't remember ever thinking "ohh no, how are they going to stop Eli". He was just average in my opinion. However he was obviously a great postseason player, that I won't take away from him. Too bad he only made the playoffs 6 times. 

[Bier Meister]

32 minutes ago, League_Champion said:

Being a fan of an NFC East team I was able to see a lot of Eli. I don't remember ever thinking "ohh no, how are they going to stop Eli". He was just average in my opinion. However he was obviously a great postseason player, that I won't take away from him. Too bad he only made the playoffs 6 times.

he performed well in 1 of those 6 playoff season. 4 times he was 1 and done.... 3 were fairly poor performances and 1 was a 300 yd game

 

in the two super bowl runs:

2007... 4 playoff games. 2 sub 200 yds. the other 2 were at 250.

2011 .... he did better. 4 games: 277, 330, 316, 296

[Def.]

10 minutes ago, Bier Meister said:

he performed well in 1 of those 6 playoff season. 4 times he was 1 and done.... 3 were fairly poor performances and 1 was a 300 yd game

 

in the two super bowl runs:

2007... 4 playoff games. 2 sub 200 yds. the other 2 were at 250.

2011 .... he did better. 4 games: 277, 330, 316, 296

 

But he wrote a story that one time!

 

[Bier Meister]

11 minutes ago, Def. said:

 

But he wrote a story that one time!

 

everyone likes a good fairy tale (or in eli's case, an average one).

Edited January 24, 2020 by Bier Meister

[Wpob]

He will get in.  it is just a matter of which ballot.  I think enough people are underwhelmed by Eli that he will miss out on first ballot and make it the second time.  

 

 

[League_Champion]

7 hours ago, Wpob said:

He will get in.  it is just a matter of which ballot.  I think enough people are underwhelmed by Eli that he will miss out on first ballot and make it the second time.  

 

 

 

Unfortunately I think he will be a first ballot Hall of Famer. Not because he deserves it but because of where he played and that he's a media sweetheart. They all love the Manning's. 

[stevegrab]

2 hours ago, League_Champion said:

 

Unfortunately I think he will be a first ballot Hall of Famer. Not because he deserves it but because of where he played and that he's a media sweetheart. They all love the Manning's. 

 

You make it sound like he's totally undeserving and its just his name and playing for the Giants that gets him in. Lets not ignore those 2 SB MVPs and beating the Pats dynasty twice, including the season they were 18-0 going into the SB. 

Not that you're biased against the Giants in any way.

[League_Champion]

5 hours ago, stevegrab said:

 

You make it sound like he's totally undeserving and its just his name and playing for the Giants that gets him in. Lets not ignore those 2 SB MVPs and beating the Pats dynasty twice, including the season they were 18-0 going into the SB. 

Not that you're biased against the Giants in any way.

 

He will get in, isn't that what I said? But I also believe that 2 games shouldn't dictate a whole career. 

[BillyBalata]

I think when you mention Eli being average, you have to account for the teams around him were average for a lot of those years.  We've all seen him make stupid throws, but we've also seen him make more great throws, not just in the SB.

 

I'll just add to his two SB wins...both were 4th qtr come from behind wins. That's not average.

[Gopher]

1 hour ago, League_Champion said:

 

He will get in, isn't that what I said? But I also believe that 2 games shouldn't dictate a whole career. 

They don't.  Without those two games, he's on the outside looking in, in terms of a HOF career.  Still the NYG all-time passing leader, which is a big deal, but probably not enough by itself.  The two SB wins (and MVP's), not to mention doing it against arguably the greatest dynasty/QB/coach the sport has ever seen, is what puts him over the edge.

[Bier Meister]

56 minutes ago, BillyBalata said:

I think when you mention Eli being average, you have to account for the teams around him were average for a lot of those years.  We've all seen him make stupid throws, but we've also seen him make more great throws, not just in the SB.

 

I'll just add to his two SB wins...both were 4th qtr come from behind wins. That's not average.

 

I don't think he touches the qbs of his generation.

[BillyBalata]

I think one thing everyone can agree on....when your homer team was going to go up against Eli and the Giants that upcoming weekend, none of us were saying, oh no, how are we going to stop Eli?  I think that perception probably has something to do with how people feel about his HOF qualifacations.

[Bier Meister]

14 minutes ago, BillyBalata said:

I think one thing everyone can agree on....when your homer team was going to go up against Eli and the Giants that upcoming weekend, none of us were saying, oh no, how are we going to stop Eli?  I think that perception probably has something to do with how people feel about his HOF qualifacations.

 

that, and that he does not match tangible and intangible traits of his contemporaries.  11 was a good year for him. Sure he had some very bad teams, but when you compare him year by year... he does not sniff HOF.

[League_Champion]

14 minutes ago, BillyBalata said:

I think one thing everyone can agree on....when your homer team was going to go up against Eli and the Giants that upcoming weekend, none of us were saying, oh no, how are we going to stop Eli?  I think that perception probably has something to do with how people feel about his HOF qualifacations.

 

Speaking for Eagle fans I can tell you that we were licking our chops everytime Eli would come to Philly, even when the Eagles stunk. NOBODY feared Eli. Tony Romo worried me more. Eli played for a hundred years, that's why he has the numbers he has. Not because he's some juggernaut. 

[michaelredd9]

8 hours ago, League_Champion said:

Eli played for a hundred years, that's why he has the numbers he has. Not because he's some juggernaut. 

 

And he has played in an era of inflated passing stats.  5 out of the 6 players who have passed for more yardage than Eli are contemporaries of him.  And by the time he will be voted on for the HOF, Roethlisberger, Ryan, Rodgers will have passed him.  Even Stafford and Flacco might surpass him for career passing yardage before they are done.  There are 26 quarterbacks in the HOF who entered the league in 1946 or later.  Brady, Brees, Peyton, and Rodgers are shoo-ins.  If Roethlisberger, Ryan, Rivers, and Eli all get in, that'll be a whole lotta quarterbacks who were contemporaries in the HOF.  8 quarterbacks from the same era don't deserve to get in.  That is 25% of the league.  And that doesn't include Kurt Warner and Brett Favre who played 6 and 7 years with Eli.  The discussion should be whether Roethlisberger deserves it, not Ryan, Rivers, and Eli.

Edited January 25, 2020 by michaelredd9

[purplemonster]

There is a lot of luck involved too.  That Tyree helmet catch Manning somehow miraculously avoids a sack then throws a near jump ball that Tyree miraculously comes down with hanging onto the ball with one finger on his helmet.  Not to mention he threw a ball directly into Asante Samuels' hands that he dropped the play before that would have ended it.  And his defense held the 18-0 Pats to 14 points that game.  Without that win he has one SB win and an ok but not outstanding career.  Even Manning said in 2017 it was probably the luckiest play in NFL history.   he may have been joking but probably not by much

 

We can go back and forth with plays and who got lucky but he made the plays when he needed to, however you want to judge it. 

Edited January 25, 2020 by purplemonster

[irish]

9 hours ago, michaelredd9 said:

 

And he has played in an era of inflated passing stats.  5 out of the 6 players who have passed for more yardage than Eli are contemporaries of him.  And by the time he will be voted on for the HOF, Roethlisberger, Ryan, Rodgers will have passed him.  Even Stafford and Flacco might surpass him for career passing yardage before they are done.  There are 26 quarterbacks in the HOF who entered the league in 1946 or later.  Brady, Brees, Peyton, and Rodgers are shoo-ins.  If Roethlisberger, Ryan, Rivers, and Eli all get in, that'll be a whole lotta quarterbacks who were contemporaries in the HOF.  8 quarterbacks from the same era don't deserve to get in.  That is 25% of the league.  And that doesn't include Kurt Warner and Brett Favre who played 6 and 7 years with Eli.  The discussion should be whether Roethlisberger deserves it, not Ryan, Rivers, and Eli.

If Eli gets a sniff for the HoF, Big Ben is a lock!  Eli couldn't hold Big Ben's jock strap.  They're not even close imo. 

 

Eli is closer to Trent Dilfer than he is to Tom Brady or any of the other greats.  That defense put him over the top for his SBs.  

 

Everyone was pissed when he got benched last season, i was glad to see that someone had the balls to finally do it. 

 

Like Garrett with his incessant clapping, Eli's dopey looking face after making each of the bazillion mistakes he's made would've driven me mad as Giants' fan.  https://images.app.goo.gl/vQ8oMtgrkxs8j1Qm7

 

Eli's greatest accomplishments were being a good (family) man and how well he handled the media. Is there a HoF for that?

Edited January 25, 2020 by irish

[DMD]

Eli defined the Giants for 16 years, 2-time SB MVP, #7 pass yards of all time. He is a first-ballot HOF'er. He has the overall stats to be there, he has the Superbowl wins and MVP's to be there. Objectively, there is no question. He is far better qualified to be there than most of the current HOF'ers.  He even has one of the most iconic plays in Super Bowl history. Manning is hardly closer to Dilfer. He has more yardage than Big Ben and three times that of Dilfer. And Dilfer never passed for more than 2859 yards in a season. Manning had seven 4000 yard seasons and never once had fewer than 3300 in a full season.

 

Ben Roethlisberger will get into the HOF as well. The #8 passer of all time. He holds many NFL records. No question he will be there as well even though he was never a Super Bowl MVP (and yet his 2 SB's had a WR be the MVP). He is a lock to be in the HOF.

 

 Rivers is the #6 passer of all time. He will get in eventually, but never appearing in a Super Bowl hurts him. It is just a reality.

 

 

 

[irish]

20 hours ago, DMD said:

Eli defined the Giants for 16 years, 2-time SB MVP, #7 pass yards of all time. He is a first-ballot HOF'er. He has the overall stats to be there, he has the Superbowl wins and MVP's to be there. Objectively, there is no question. He is far better qualified to be there than most of the current HOF'ers.  He even has one of the most iconic plays in Super Bowl history. Manning is hardly closer to Dilfer. He has more yardage than Big Ben and three times that of Dilfer. And Dilfer never passed for more than 2859 yards in a season. Manning had seven 4000 yard seasons and never once had fewer than 3300 in a full season.

 

Ben Roethlisberger will get into the HOF as well. The #8 passer of all time. He holds many NFL records. No question he will be there as well even though he was never a Super Bowl MVP (and yet his 2 SB's had a WR be the MVP). He is a lock to be in the HOF.

 

 Rivers is the #6 passer of all time. He will get in eventually, but never appearing in a Super Bowl hurts him. It is just a reality.

 

 

 

My comment was more in jest about him being Dilfer, was hoping you'd see that, along with the dopey face. However, he is closer to Dilfer than to the greats. 

 

And Manning is not a sure fire first ballot HoFer in my opinion and i hope he doesn't get in as such, if at all. Longevity playing gives him the big numbers, very akin to padding stats in a blowout. Eli was never dominant and that's what should define a HoFer.  You can throw all the accumulated stats you want at me and i, along with many others, will still look at who Eli was as a QB, and that's an average player, not a HoFer. Unfortunately, his defense winning him 2 SBs, along with a completely lucky hailmary play, will probably get him in, and make me vomit, at some point. 

Edited January 26, 2020 by irish

[michaelredd9]

14 hours ago, DMD said:

 He is far better qualified to be there than most of the current HOF'ers. 

 

You can't be serious?  He is the Richard Chamberlain of quarterbacks.  He was an All Pro zero times.  He was never even close to being a top 5 quarterback in the league.  He is Trent Dilfer.  He is Joe Flacco.  He just played longer and won 2 Super Bowls instead of 1.  Eli is case in point of how it is possible to win a Super Bowl despite having a middling quarterback.  In the his first Super Bowl season, Eli completed 56% of his passes, threw 23 touchdowns, and led the league with 20 interceptions.  He had the 25th highest qb rating in the league.  They made playoffs with a 10-6 record because of a great run game and great defensive line.  Eli was a major liability.   In his second Super Bowl season, they made the playoffs with a 9-7 record.  He is not John or Paul.  He is not even George.  He is Ringo.  And I'm not talking about Jim Ringo because Jim Ringo was an All Pro 9 times.

 

Edited January 26, 2020 by michaelredd9

[League_Champion]

This is an interesting read. He was a mediocre QB at best who caught fire in the Superbowl. He ultimately won 2 Superbowls. Should that be enough to get you in the HOF? It's a great argument because based on his regular season career stats there is NO WAY he should even be able to sniff the HOF. 

 

https://theshadowleague.com/giants-eli-manning-hall-of-fame/

[stevegrab]