League_Champion

NFL rule change that would allow a fourth-and-15 onside kick alternative

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Yeah, I agree. Why make it more complicated?  What's the point? Making offenses do better?

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It's s great idea. Should be no kick offs at all

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Posted (edited)

Seems a little too permissive.  4th and 15 is a little too easy.  Actually god forbid the worst result is the inevitable iffy PI calls which will be a fixture of many 4th and 15's.  And then they will have an entire new set of downs.  I would make it a little longer like 4th and 18.  The issue for those who didn't read the article is the onside kick success rate has dropped since they stopped allowing running starts.  From 21%, to 7% to 12.5% the last two years.  I agree the onside kick has gotten pretty tough, I don't know if this is the best solution but I would make it slightly tougher if they do.

 

In the end, this is more of a matter of personal preference.  I prefer the NFL way because frankly I don't want crapshoot, wild finishes where some lucky bounce or crappy PI determines the game.  The NBA you can safely ignore about 3/4 of the game and just tune in for the last quarter when there are 12 timeouts and free throws and somebody wins by a couple.  The NFL the beginning of the game actually matters because one of the biggest determinants of who wins the game is who is ahead after the 1st quarter.  So I prefer the NFL way personally.  Occasional miracle comebacks but not a regular occurrence.   

Edited by purplemonster
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If you are the Chiefs why would you ever kick? Mahomes gets the 15 yards by accident. I just think the NFL is getting way to gimmicky. It's going to look like a carnival out there soon. 

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greg shianno came up with a great idea, they should talk with him

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3 hours ago, purplemonster said:

Seems a little too permissive.  4th and 15 is a little too easy.  Actually god forbid the worst result is the inevitable iffy PI calls which will be a fixture of many 4th and 15's.  And then they will have an entire new set of downs.  I would make it a little longer like 4th and 18.  The issue for those who didn't read the article is the onside kick success rate has dropped since they stopped allowing running starts.  From 21%, to 7% to 12.5% the last two years.  I agree the onside kick has gotten pretty tough, I don't know if this is the best solution but I would make it slightly tougher if they do.

 

In the end, this is more of a matter of personal preference.  I prefer the NFL way because frankly I don't want crapshoot, wild finishes where some lucky bounce or crappy PI determines the game.  The NBA you can safely ignore about 3/4 of the game and just tune in for the last quarter when there are 12 timeouts and free throws and somebody wins by a couple.  The NFL the beginning of the game actually matters because one of the biggest determinants of who wins the game is who is ahead after the 1st quarter.  So I prefer the NFL way personally.  Occasional miracle comebacks but not a regular occurrence.   

 

They should do this 4th and 15th thing BUT say that pass interference or any penalty will not be called regardless. That could be fun to watch. Tackling the receivers before they get off the line. That would make highlight reels.

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18 minutes ago, DMD said:

 

They should do this 4th and 15th thing BUT say that pass interference or any penalty will not be called regardless. That could be fun to watch. Tackling the receivers before they get off the line. That would make highlight reels.

did you recently watch "Slap Shot"?

any "men" here who haven't seen that movie needs to this weekend... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slap_Shot

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3 minutes ago, League_Champion said:

 

One of the greatest movies ever!  The original though. 

they did a remake?

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27 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

they did a remake?

 

I thought they did a cheesy remake a few years back. Unless I'm thinking of something else. 

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7 minutes ago, League_Champion said:

 

Wait, here it is. Must have been terrible!

 

Slap Shot 2: Breaking the Ice is a 2002 sports comedy film directed by Steve Boyum and starring Stephen Baldwin and Gary Busey. The direct-to-video film is the sequel to the 1977 film Slap Shot.

was gary busey drugged up and awesome?

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27 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

was gary busey drugged up and awesome?

 

Haha, I'm sure he was absolutely gorded out of his mind 

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Posted (edited)

I doubt there is a hockey player in MN born before 1995 that hasn't seen it.  Basically a bible.  A bible of what I don't know, but we watch it 

 

Slap Shot 2 I don't even think i have seen.  The sequel to that and Caddyshack should be not spoken of 

Edited by purplemonster
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[Following a pre-game brawl instigated by the Hanson brothers, during the National Anthem]
Referee: I got my eye on the three of you. You pull one thing, you're out of this game. I run a clean game here. I have any trouble here, I'll suspend you–
Steve Hanson: I'm listening to the (the really bad word)ing song!
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I don't want to play any more, you broke the darn car

 

Who own da Chiefs?  Oooowwwwwnssss ooowwwnnnss

 

Ti***es hard as little rocks 

 

Dave's a killer!  Dave's a mess...

 

Old time hockey, like Eddie Shore

 

 

 

 

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I like the idea.  Onside kicks always give hope but the success rate is minimal.  4th and 15 from your own 25 is risky as if you don't get it, the other team is already in field goal range when they take over on downs.  

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Shorttynaz said:

I like the idea.  Onside kicks always give hope but the success rate is minimal.  4th and 15 from your own 25 is risky as if you don't get it, the other team is already in field goal range when they take over on downs.  

My issue with that is if you are using an onside kick you are likely losing the game anyway so I am not sure changing it to your own 25 means much.  If you don't recover the kick you will likely lose regardless, this just means you have a new decent chance to catch up even though you've been beaten the whole game.  That's my devil's advocate view.  Is that deserved to have a 25%+ chance?  Granted you still need to go another 50 yards for a TD, bit if you are only down 1-3 points you only need another first down or two to be in FG range.  That's a pretty excellent chance. And you control the ball.  

Edited by purplemonster
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On 5/23/2020 at 4:52 AM, Shorttynaz said:

I like the idea.  Onside kicks always give hope but the success rate is minimal.  4th and 15 from your own 25 is risky as if you don't get it, the other team is already in field goal range when they take over on downs.  

Agreed, but they just need to go back to the pre rule change onside kick. It was more realistic then.

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On 5/23/2020 at 4:52 AM, Shorttynaz said:

I like the idea.  Onside kicks always give hope but the success rate is minimal.  4th and 15 from your own 25 is risky as if you don't get it, the other team is already in field goal range when they take over on downs.  

 

It seems like a lot of the coaches are onboard as well. I think it's going to pass when they vote on Thursday. 

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Posted (edited)

More gimmicks and overreaction with rule changes that are not needed. 

 

Here is another thing to consider, as I understood from one article I read, the 4th & 15 play is an untimed down, you could score a TD on that play, slim chance and too far away for a Hail Mary to reach the EZ. But if you scored, then converted PAT/2P try, and then had to kickoff again you could keep scoring at will with just a few seconds left when scoring the first time. 

Edited by stevegrab

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On 5/22/2020 at 9:11 PM, LordOpie said:

did you recently watch "Slap Shot"?

any "men" here who haven't seen that movie needs to this weekend... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slap_Shot

 

Still one of my favorite sports related movies, and I'm not even a hockey fan. 

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This rule change was tabled.

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9 hours ago, stethant said:

This rule change was tabled.

Here's a good article that gives some statistics.  This author felt a major reason this was shot down was because some teams are much better at 3rd/4th and long 

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-continues-to-misunderstand-the-data-and-analytics-by-tabling-onside-kick-rule-change-proposal/?fbclid=IwAR3AvSif4QXi7xpaliRZZwYa_I_nIwqyrHfJj2Mz4cczhYtHUWeMtzKb3Y4

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