SeductiveNun Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a large part of the Penguins financial problems due to a terrible lease agreement the team has with the arena? Geez, where else to go with this....... Healthy warm weather teams. Which ones would those be? I know Dallas is doing fine, but what are the others. Tampa Bay? Perhaps, now that they have a winner that franchise may have turned the corner. Atlanta? Last I heard, the team was up for sale, and an old rumor going around was that they could be moved to Winnipeg. Phoenix? Don't know enough about that franchise to say it's healthy or not. Nashville, Florida, and Carolina have never really been percieved as hockey hotbeds, and I even with the Preds season last year, I don't see that they can turn that thinking around. Anaheim? It was an embarrassment to hockey fans when the Ducks went to the Cup, and the perception of fans in Anaheim was such you wouldn't know a championship event was taking place there. As for new rules to help the game, I agree with eliminating the red line and the accursed 2-line pass. The game opens up much more that way, and you get a lot of exciting breakouts and scoring chances. I also say get rid of the instigator penalty, and let enforcers be enforcers. In the past if a player would take a run or a cheap shot at a team's star, he would incur the wrath of the star players enforcer later in the game. With the instigator penalty, the cheap shots have increased, with the only real retribution being a possible penalty. Let's see, 2-5 minutes to take out a star player vs. getting your clock cleaned by someone your own size as a result of your actions? Yeah, that's a fair tradeoff. There are others as well. Goalies should still be allowed to play the puck behind the net. I still think icing should be a touch up play, and not automatic. I do think the offsides rule should be changed back, where all a player has to do to waive it off if he is trapped in the zone is touch up at the blue line again. There a lot of things wrong with the game from a broad marketing and appeal perspective. Still, it's a game I love to watch (once football season is over), and after watching some of the classic Wild and North Star games on FSN in Minnesota, I'm starting to miss it more. Sorry for the rambling post. When your bouncing back and forth between this and actual work, the train of thought tends to wander off the tracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 There's a lockout??? I don't miss it(obviously). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Like Soup Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 I don't miss hockey even though I do enjoy watching the games. I think the NHL is doing irreversible damage to an already financially burdened league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conrad Mazian Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 As for new rules to help the game, I agree with eliminating the red line and the accursed 2-line pass. The game opens up much more that way, and you get a lot of exciting breakouts and scoring chances. There are others as well. Goalies should still be allowed to play the puck behind the net. I do think the offsides rule should be changed back, where all a player has to do to waive it off if he is trapped in the zone is touch up at the blue line again. 561957[/snapback] With all the experimenting in overtime, these simple and organic rule changes would open the game up TREMENDOUSLY; I don't know why Bettman can't see that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Sack Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 Maybe I am old school but why do we have to open things up. If you take away the red line you get more breakaways, but you loose alot of the big hits in the open ice. And maybe some of us like the 1 to 1 ties. Goaltending is definately an artform! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guggs Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 Hockey is my 2nd favorite sport. Every other sport is #1, then comes hockey. I don't know. I just never go into it. I don't understand some of the rules like icing etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 Dear Santa, All I want for Christmas is for the hockey lockout to end. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cclevine1025 Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 Personally, I'd rather watch the ice melt in an arena rather than have to watch a hockey game being played on it. So do I miss the NHL (or hockey in general)?...............NO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diesel Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 Don't miss it at all. Even my died hard Jackets fans (yeah, they exist) won't be renewing their season tickets next year, as they are realizing they don't miss it that much either. Seems to be the consensus in Columbus too. I think this is a bad move and it's going to be interesting to see what unfolds, especially outside of the 'big' hockey cities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 (edited) Hockey locked out, baseball on steroids, basketball players beating up fans. Thank God for the NFL or I might not even like sports anymore. Edit: and College basketball rocks. Edited December 7, 2004 by TimC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 Don't miss it at all. Even my died hard Jackets fans (yeah, they exist) won't be renewing their season tickets next year, as they are realizing they don't miss it that much either. Seems to be the consensus in Columbus too. I think this is a bad move and it's going to be interesting to see what unfolds, especially outside of the 'big' hockey cities. 597427[/snapback] Well, I don't recall that Columbus was clamoring for a team anyway. Folding the NHL in the marginal cities would be GOOD move anyway, IMO. Funny how different NFL expansion is from NHL/NBA/MLB - cities fall all over themselves for an NFL franchise, whereas the other sports put a team in a marginal market as a mean of ESTABLISHING a fan base there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 I don't pay any attention until after football anyway so I'm not missing them. However, the original question about them causing irreversible damage is without a doubt. Die hard fans are finding other things to do as we speak and if they lose one out of every five it will cause major damage to a sport that was/is suffering anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.D.Morrison Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 doh! well going to a devils game was your first mistake! they're notorious for playing a very boring, but effective style of hockey... 557678[/snapback] THE TRAP ! ughhh..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilthorp Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 Dear Santa, All I want for Christmas is for the hockey lockout to end. Thank you. 596535[/snapback] Well, it's a start....let's see if the owners want to have a season or not. I'm sure there are several owners that are jumping at this, but not enough to get them to buy into this proposal. Will major salary rollback be enough to save NHL season? By IRA PODELL, AP Sports Writer December 10, 2004 TORONTO (AP) -- The NHL players' association stunned the league and even its members with its latest effort to save the hockey season. When the owners walked away Thursday after the first bargaining session in three months, they had a 236-page document to go through and an offer of a 24 percent rollback of all salaries to consider. ``It was shocking for me to hear it,'' said Dallas forward Bill Guerin, a member of the executive board. ``That's a lot of money out of a guy's pocket to be giving up.'' But like the Sept. 9 bargaining session that triggered the lockout a week later, the new offer doesn't provide the cost certainty that commissioner Gary Bettman is seeking for the 30 NHL clubs. He noted that one aspect -- presumably the rollback -- was significant. But he still isn't in favor of a luxury-tax system, that players prefer, over a salary cap. A cap is an option the union says it will never accept. ``We have said consistently that the focus must be on the overall systemic issues and the long-term needs and health of our game,'' Bettman said. By union estimates, the six-year, six-point proposal would save the NHL a total that exceeds $1 billion. The union said all current contracts would be cut, a move that would save NHL teams $270 million in the first year and $528 million over three years. The players' association offer on Sept. 9 only included a 5 percent salary rollback. Another key portion of the proposal is a luxury tax, but those numbers were similar to the previous offer. If a deal is there to be made, the payroll tax would likely be the area that provides the most room for negotiation. ``I'm not sitting here saying that something couldn't be moved or adjusted, but I am saying this is the basis for an agreement, this is the basis for there to be hockey this year,'' NHLPA executive director Bob Goodenow said. Bettman said the NHL needed time to go through the offer. The sides agreed to postpone the next meeting from Friday until Tuesday, either in New York or Toronto. At that time, Bettman said the league will likely make a counterproposal. Time is running short to work out a deal and still have a legitimate season. Already 382 regular-season games, plus the All-Star game, have been canceled. Bettman declined to announce a drop-dead date that would make the NHL the first major North American league to cancel an entire season over a labor dispute. ``When we have the deal, we'll see what we can do about having a semblance of a season,'' Bettman said. After this major giveback offer, players had an even stronger resolve against a cap. ``If they want to come back with a linkage to a salary cap, then there will be no season,'' said Ottawa forward Daniel Alfredsson, who would stand to lose millions of a recently signed five-year deal. The proposed luxury tax would penalize teams 20 cents for each dollar they spend between $45 million and $50 million. The penalty would increase to 25 percent the second year and 30 percent in the third. Teams spending between $50 million and $60 million would be taxed 50 cents on the dollar the first year, 55 cents the second year and 60 cents the third. Those with payrolls above that would have to pay 60 cents for every dollar the first year, 65 cents the second, and 70 cents the third year on each dollar over the threshold. The NHLPA offered to change arbitration and make it more like baseball's system in which clubs and players submit figures for an arbitrator to decide on. An entry-level contract cap of $850,000 also was proposed, which would return the ceiling to that of the 1995 draft class. Last season, the cap on entry-level contracts was $1.295 million. The players' association also proposed a revenue-sharing plan to bring the bottom 15 teams within 30 percent of the revenues of the top 15 teams. ``This is no grandstand ploy. ... This is serious negotiations,'' Goodenow said. Arenas have been given the go-ahead by the league to free dates previously reserved for hockey on a 45-day rolling basis. As of now, that means there won't be any games before late January. Bettman has said that teams lost a total of more than $1.8 billion over 10 years and that management will not agree to a deal without a defined relationship between revenue and salaries. Owners say teams lost $273 million in 2002-03 and $224 million last season. Last season's average salary was $1.8 million, and the NHL has proposed pushing that back to $1.3 million with its salary-cap structure. An economic study commissioned by the NHL found that players get 75 percent of league revenues. The union has challenged many of the league's financial findings. The league has been operating under the same collective bargaining agreement since 1995, when the last lockout went 103 days before a 48-game season was played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegFuJohnson Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 Actually, I'm curious what some of the players said when they heard about a 24% cut. But I don't think that's what the owners want, but if they want to play this season, I can't think that they'll get what they want. Maybe next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Darkside Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Actually, I'm curious what some of the players said when they heard about a 24% cut. But I don't think that's what the owners want, but if they want to play this season, I can't think that they'll get what they want. Maybe next year. 602972[/snapback] after reading some of the details of what the players proposed, i think if the owners walk away from this offer then they will lose fan support, this looks like a very fair offer, the player have conceded to somethings that i never thought they would , i.e.- the 24 % rollback, and the entry level salary cap, those are some big issues that in my eyes show a willingness by the players to solve this nonsence and get back on the ice. the only thing that will cause this to perhaps not be accepted is that the penalty for going over the magic 45 million mark is not enough, you still leave the owners the opportunity to over spend at will and maintain the have and the havenot system. i think the league does need to get rid of some dead weight teams but just get back to playing first and sort that out later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donutrun Jellies Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 NHL Hockey? Good luck with that. Until the pro game returns to the purity of the mites level, it'll always be a poor excuse for a pro league, with fans much more likely to just watch the mites, college, or international ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chester Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 I spend almost 10% of what I make a year to see these idiots play half of their home games (about 20). They make an average af 1.8 MILLION a year (1.2 after the 24% cut). And, owners, YOU WERE WILLING TO PAY THAT MUCH! Both sides are at fault for the situation that they're in. FIGURE IT OUT! Let's play hockey! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 after reading some of the details of what the players proposed, i think if the owners walk away from this offer then they will lose fan support, this looks like a very fair offer, the player have conceded to somethings that i never thought they would , i.e.- the 24 % rollback, and the entry level salary cap, those are some big issues that in my eyes show a willingness by the players to solve this nonsence and get back on the ice. the only thing that will cause this to perhaps not be accepted is that the penalty for going over the magic 45 million mark is not enough, you still leave the owners the opportunity to over spend at will and maintain the have and the havenot system. i think the league does need to get rid of some dead weight teams but just get back to playing first and sort that out later. 607490[/snapback] The owners are insisting on a cap. The new proposal doesn't have one. While I agree that it is fair, I'd be surprised if the owners go for it. I hope I'm wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Darkside Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 The owners are insisting on a cap. The new proposal doesn't have one. While I agree that it is fair, I'd be surprised if the owners go for it. I hope I'm wrong. 607816[/snapback] as of today both the owner in ottawa and the group that owns the oilers have said no to the offer and a leaked document from the nhl says that all 30 owners have said no thanks to the offer, FU@KERS, there may never be hockey again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Here's a question - since historically the Stanley Cup is awarded to the best team in North America (it predates the NHL by a decade or two), does that mean that the AHL champion will get the cup this year? Because I for one think that would be kinda cool - bit of a slap in the face to the NHL, and deservedly so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Here's a question - since historically the Stanley Cup is awarded to the best team in North America (it predates the NHL by a decade or two), does that mean that the AHL champion will get the cup this year? Because I for one think that would be kinda cool - bit of a slap in the face to the NHL, and deservedly so. 608925[/snapback] Methinks the NHL has rights to the Stanley Cup, as in they own it, but I'm not 100% sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Methinks the NHL has rights to the Stanley Cup, as in they own it, but I'm not 100% sure. 609155[/snapback] The Stanley Cup, the oldest trophy competed for by professional athletes in North America, was donated by Frederick Arthur, Lord Stanley of Preston and son of the Earl of Derby, in 1893. Lord Stanley purchased the trophy for 10 guineas ($50 at that time) for presentation to the amateur hockey champions of Canada. Since 1910, when the National Hockey Association took possession of the Stanley Cup, the trophy has been the symbol of professional hockey supremacy. It has been competed for only by NHL teams since 1926 and has been under the exclusive control of the NHL since 1946. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon_gekko Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 at least they're talking, i guess btw...anyone at all excited about the upcoming world junior hockey tournament over christmas? i look forward to it every year...and the US should contend for gold again this year! these kids play for all the right reasons and it's exciting, competitive, skillful hockey - these guys are good however i don't recall there being any games broadcast here in the states...so your only shot might be catching some of the action on satellite from our neighbors to the north. and, yes, i realize there's football being played as well...i haven't forgotten about that - i just plan on catching both Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Darkside Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 at least they're talking, i guess btw...anyone at all excited about the upcoming world junior hockey tournament over christmas? i look forward to it every year...and the US should contend for gold again this year! these kids play for all the right reasons and it's exciting, competitive, skillful hockey - these guys are good however i don't recall there being any games broadcast here in the states...so your only shot might be catching some of the action on satellite from our neighbors to the north. and, yes, i realize there's football being played as well...i haven't forgotten about that - i just plan on catching both 609748[/snapback] i agree this years world juniors should be awesome , being from canada i cant agree with you gold medal projection, but i think a canada vs. us final would be great. with no nhl, most of the world junior teams should benifit from the older (19 & 20 year olds) that should be in the nhl or ahl, but are still in junior hockey. by the way just for something different, i heard about this website on the local edmonton sports radio show yesterday in reagards to the stanley cup , its called freestanley.com, dont worry it wont take you to some porn site like i thought it might when i typed it in, unless thats what your hoping. its 3 guys who are trying to take the cup from the nhl . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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