Marauders11 Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Aaron Brooks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 On my favorite team, the Chargers, there are none! They were all underrated! Actually, I would say Tim Dwight, I never understood why they gave that guy so much money. I like the guy, I just don't know what they saw in him to give him that much CASH! Also, Sammy Davis is going through some growing pains. As a high #1 DB, he needs to be patient and just let the game happen. He has been pressing a lot! Once he settles in, probably next year, Jammer and Davis will be a deadly pair of corners that will make this D even better. I will probably surprise the Athena out of everone here by saying this, but I think Brees is over rated right now! He has definately benefited from superior O-line play, improved WRs and the developement of Gates. He was showing some signs of old in the game against the Raiders this weekend, though he was VERY effective on third down. If it wasn't for a healthier LT, they lose that game! Don't get me worng, he's a great kid, but he lacks some of the tools and arm strength you need from a pocket passer. His out pattern strength is lacking and the balls tend to float. He should have been picked at least twice, maybe three times against the Raiders, but fortunately, the Raiders look like the Chargers of recent memory right now. Brees is also short for a QB. They list Brees at 6', but I know he isn't that tall. My friend that works for the Chargers is 6', and he is a couple of inches taller than Brees. On the final drive, the end zone camera angle said it all on the replay. Brees knew where Keenan was, but couldn't see him. Brees had to jump (a move he got from Flutie no doubt!?!?) to see him and make the toss. It wasn't in the press, but if you saw the game, Marty was PISSED when Brees came to the sideline after the play when the Raiders called a Time Out. That was the stuff that caused the Chargers some games last year. It all worked out, the Chargers won and they glossed it over in the post-game. But if you were watching, Cam Cameron (Offensive Coordinator) pushed Marty away and delt with Brees himself. Rivers is definately the future of this organization. At 6'5", he can see the field, has a lightning fast arm and can throw the out on a rope. He is also faster and has better feet. The tools are there, it is no guarantee that he developes, but he can't be worse than Brees and is probably better once he gets some snaps. Right now, you have to give Brees some of those "intangibles" and he may go on to be a solid year in year out NFL QB. I do think he is playing over his head right now. 570457[/snapback] actually...Brees wouldn't be overrated in this case... he just finally has more weapons than LT...now that the OL has given him more than 2.2 seconds, Gates has devolped into a super-stud...and now McCardell is your starting WR.... not to mention the defense is keeping the scores low and gives you guys a chance at putting a team away... so all that really happened...is the rest of the team started playing above average....and allowed him to take it to the next level... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51Butkus Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Fred taylor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebdog Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 . My choice for modern times is Brian Urlacher hands down. I remember last year in Monday newspapers they would say he got 15 tackles almost every game. Then an analist went back and reviewed tape and usually Brian only got like 4 or 5. Plus he sucks at getting out of blocks. 570439[/snapback] Analist? i think the correct title is Protologist! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebdog Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Analist? i think the correct title is Protologist! 570482[/snapback] or proctologist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Tom Brady 570462[/snapback] Well, I don't know if I'd go THAT far, but it may be fair to say that he's overrated by the media in the same way that Urlacher is. I want to vomit when I hear the Joe Montana comparisons. Brady's an efficient QB and makes a big play every now and then, but he clearly benefits from his defense (i.e., they stop the opposition and cause turnovers for him, meaning that he doesn't have to take chances). The one year that his defense wasn't one of the best in the league (2002, ranked 17th overall in points allowed), he couldn't get his team to the playoffs or even 10 wins. Every other year, his team has ranked no lower than 6th overall in points allowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Well, I don't know if I'd go THAT far, but it may be fair to say that he's overrated by the media in the same way that Urlacher is. I want to vomit when I hear the Joe Montana comparisons. Brady's an efficient QB and makes a big play every now and then, but he clearly benefits from his defense (i.e., they stop the opposition and cause turnovers for him, meaning that he doesn't have to take chances). The one year that his defense wasn't one of the best in the league (2002, ranked 17th overall in points allowed), he couldn't get his team to the playoffs or even 10 wins. Every other year, his team has ranked no lower than 6th overall in points allowed. 570487[/snapback] Just an aside...but couldn't you make an arguement about the imbalance of the league when Joe Montana was playing? Couldn't you make comparisons regarding the level of personel he had to work with on offense and the very good defense he had to support him? I'm not a "Tom Brady for MVP" guy, but let's get our heads on straight. The year the Pats didn't make the playoffs, Tom Brady led the NFL in touchdown passes. I'd say he did his part, and without any brand name help on the offensive side of the ball or any help on the defensive side of the ball. I know you love to throw this out there, and I certainly agree that the defense helps. I'd hold off on yer vomiting, though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Brady might be a LITTLE overrated...but come playoff time, he makes key drives when the team needs him to... even in the Superbowl, both stout defenses were run over...and Brady came up clutch in the final moments by getting the team well into FG range.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAUgrad Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 For my beloved Broncos, Jake Plummer is not the savior we all thought he'd be. He's can't lead this team from behind ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Overrated player on the Pats: Deion Branch. I can't remember the last time in 3 seasons he wasn't on the injury report... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG A Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 My team is the Raiders. Take your pick here. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/roster?team=oak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borge007 Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Vikes-Chris Hovan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBoog Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 (edited) actually...Brees wouldn't be overrated in this case... he just finally has more weapons than LT...now that the OL has given him more than 2.2 seconds, Gates has devolped into a super-stud...and now McCardell is your starting WR.... not to mention the defense is keeping the scores low and gives you guys a chance at putting a team away... so all that really happened...is the rest of the team started playing above average....and allowed him to take it to the next level... 570466[/snapback] I said, IMHO. The O-Line was not the problem last year! The Chargers led the league in per rush average and LT himself had a 5.3 ypc average. The O-line doesn't suck when that happens. Brees was NOT hurried last year. The O-line only gave up 29 sack last year, 8 for Flutie, and this number translates to less than one per game AND top five in the NFL last year. Given your accurate analysis about the Chargers D playing better and allowing the offense to not play from behind and "having" to throw the ball, only solidified the above argumant about the O-line. Despite the fact that everyone in the house knew they were throwing the ball, Brees was still not harassed as you would expect. Brees biggest improvement this year has been that he takes care of the ball better. He has been efficient and made the throws. This last weekend, he had some balls float on him that looked a lot like last year. Maybe, I hope, it was the week off. He has a higher completion percentage this year, but a lot of that is due to the WRs not dropping the ball 5 times a game like they did last year. I think Brees is playing at an appropriate level. He is being efficient in an offense that requires the QB to be just that, efficient. Cameron (O coordinator), has also been a lot better this year in play calling and scheming. The entire package is better, and with a healthier LT, is a dangerous offense. They had an "off game" this week and left at least 15 points on the field, but still won. What I am saying is that I think his percieved value right now is higher than what it deserves. If he continues to play like this the rest of the season, then maybe he deserves the hype. At this point in time, though efficient and important to the teams success, I think that he is over rated with respect to what he is right now, or in another light, he is getting more credit than he deserves. This, supports your final point that he has raised his level to the improvement around him. I give more credit to this team's improvement to the O and D coordinators, WRs and vastly improved defense, allowing the Chargers to play more of a control game than they were able to in the past few years. That said, I still think they gave up on him too quickly and would have much rather seen the Chargers draft Gallery, or a WR. Edited November 22, 2004 by McBoog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Michael Bennett Fred Taylor Bulger Thomas Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 (edited) I said, IMHO. The O-Line was not the problem last year! The Chargers led the league in per rush average and LT himself had a 5.3 ypc average. The O-line doesn't suck when that happens. Brees was NOT hurried last year. The O-line only gave up 29 sack last year, 8 for Flutie, and this number translates to less than one per game AND top five in the NFL last year. 570527[/snapback] A couple of things that might not show up here. Obviously you are loser to the situation, but... Good run blocking does not equal good pass protection Sacks are less of an indication of pressure than hurries and knockdowns. I'd be interested in seeing those stats. The development of Gates has been a HUGH contributor to Brees' success. Any QB needs someone that can handle a football. Nobody but LT could last year, which was why the guy had 100 catches. EDIT: I left it in because it's humorous...but that's "closer to the situation" :doah: Edited November 22, 2004 by Caveman_Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Neutron Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Being a Denver fan, I gotta go with Plummer too. He's had some great games, but they never seem to be when it's important. If the score is close, or Denver is behind, he's not nearly as good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 (edited) Just an aside...but couldn't you make an arguement about the imbalance of the league when Joe Montana was playing? Couldn't you make comparisons regarding the level of personel he had to work with on offense and the very good defense he had to support him?570498[/snapback] Sure. I don't necessarily think that "Joe Cool" was the greatest ever. Hell, Chavez thinks that Steve Young ran the WCO better and he only won one title. Not coincidentally, Young played in the salary cap era. I'm not a "Tom Brady for MVP" guy, but let's get our heads on straight. The year the Pats didn't make the playoffs, Tom Brady led the NFL in touchdown passes. ... with a whole 28. Very good, but not stellar. This year, we're going to have about three people go over thirty and one of them might break 50. Brady's never had a 4,000 yd passing season either. I'm not trying to knock Brady, but I'm just sick of the pundits labeling him "the best QB of his generation. " Yeah, the guy's really good, but I think he's more like Troy Aikman than, say, Brett Favre. Aikman may have won more rings, but Favre has contributed more to his team's success over the years than Aikman. Hell, I think that McNabb has contributed more to his team's success than Brady. Edited November 22, 2004 by Bill Swerski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumpersb Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Not in the league anymore but I can't get Brian Bosworth out my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatman Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Aaron Brooks 570465[/snapback] Not after that backwards pass. Now everyone knows that he sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDFFFreak Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 (edited) Not too long ago you would have seen McNabb's name all over this list... Edited November 23, 2004 by TDFFFreak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBoog Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 A couple of things that might not show up here. Obviously you are loser to the situation, but... Good run blocking does not equal good pass protection Sacks are less of an indication of pressure than hurries and knockdowns. I'd be interested in seeing those stats. The development of Gates has been a HUGH contributor to Brees' success. Any QB needs someone that can handle a football. Nobody but LT could last year, which was why the guy had 100 catches. 570539[/snapback] He was not hurried, just a bonehead. That is why the organization got squirrely on him and made the move for Rivers. He was the victim of a lot of dropped balls, and some were deflected for INTs, but he made pleantly of just BAD throws. I watched every game last year and was constantly screaming at my TV, "What are you thinking!?!?!?" I still think the Chargers would have sucked last year because they couldn't stop anyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Streaker Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 (edited) For my beloved Broncos, Jake Plummer is not the savior we all thought he'd be. He's can't lead this team from behind ever. 570504[/snapback] I'm like Plummers only fan. I admit he has done some dumb things. But he does come from behind to win alot. Someone who has more time than I do can check the stats but if I remeber corrctly he is number one in 4th quarter wins since ... 98 ish? sumthing like that. Granted most those wins were rabbits pulled outta hats in Arizona. Ok found some time to research Plummer. • Plummer’s come-from-behind win vs. Car. (10/10) was his 25th career game-winning or game-tying scoring drive in the fourth quarter or overtime. Of those 25, 19 are “pure” comeback victories, which comprise the highest total of any NFL quarterback since 1995. •http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=498&contentID=751 Edited November 23, 2004 by Streaker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbie Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 On my Bears...Urlacher. But, it isn't all his fault. He really should be put on the outside where he can flow to the ball and take on fewer blockers...like Wilbur Marshall did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phenom Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Not too long ago you would have seen McNabb's name all over this list... 570694[/snapback] About 4 weeks ago you would see Vick's name all over this list. I'm surprised............ :bigshock: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramhock Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Mike Martz. If his paycheck is a penny more than what a very good offensive coordinator's is, then he is overrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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