Roller Coasters Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Any guesses as to the crowd reaction Thursday? I heard Dan Patrick saying that some of the Colts players wore Artest spamshirts to practice today. I hope they don't throw turkey legs at Vanderjagt. He could go off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PackerFanX Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Any guesses as to the crowd reaction Thursday? I heard Dan Patrick saying that some of the Colts players wore Artest spamshirts to practice today. I hope they don't throw turkey legs at Vanderjagt. He could go off! 572546[/snapback] I dropped M. Pollard in one of my Leagues because he wore an Artest Jersey. I agree that the fan who threw the beer at Artest was a jack*ss but Artest needs to show some restraint and take the high road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gak Attack Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Why the h*ll would the Colts players wear Artest spamshirts? They seem to be a classy organization ~ seems odd they would give a rip what some dump-arse did in a basketball game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 I dropped M. Pollard in one of my Leagues because he wore an Artest Jersey. I agree that the fan who threw the beer at Artest was a jack*ss but Artest needs to show some restraint and take the high road. 572550[/snapback] Agreed. After he was suspended for wanting to take time off to promote his rap album, I strongly suspected that Artest wouldn't be in Indy next year. Now I have no doubt that he'll be gone. I doubt that the Detroit fans will do anything. Hell, they should be HAPPY with Artest, given that his immature behavior pretty much GAVE Detroit the Eastern Conference title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Furley Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Does anyone know which players wore the Artest jersey? Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackass Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 That's a pretty interesting coincidence. Detroit and Indy in a rematch. Maybe Peyton Manning will go into the stands and start throwing haymakers and get suspended for the rest of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Does anyone know which players wore the Artest jersey? Just curious. 572592[/snapback] Well, it may as well have been Manning with the way this board seems to love to bash him. I really hope that the Colts aren't getting into the politics of the NBA. If so that will really suck as I don't care how you slice it there is no way to justify Artest going into the stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glabra Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Maybe Peyton Manning will go into the stands and start throwing haymakers and get suspended for the rest of the year. 572624[/snapback] I've heard he fights like a girl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 So you know, Indiana fans are furious about the suspensions. The feeling is that although punishment was expected, the length of the suspensions are uncalled for. Almost everyone I've spoken too here think that O'Neal and Artest are being treated unfairly. Pollard and Doss both were wearing the spamshirts. They said although they do not agree with what he did, they too think it is unfair for him to be suspended for the year. Pollard said he was a big Artest fan and wants to see him play again this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackass Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 So you know, Indiana fans are furious about the suspensions. The feeling is that although punishment was expected, the length of the suspensions are uncalled for. Almost everyone I've spoken too here think that O'Neal and Artest are being treated unfairly. Pollard and Doss both were wearing the spamshirts. They said although they do not agree with what he did, they too think it is unfair for him to be suspended for the year. Pollard said he was a big Artest fan and wants to see him play again this year. 572630[/snapback] I agree with you Capt'n. About half of what they got sounds fair to me. But that seems to be the minority opinion, at least outside of Indiana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 I agree with you Capt'n. About half of what they got sounds fair to me. But that seems to be the minority opinion, at least outside of Indiana 572636[/snapback] Yes, I know. That night, it seemed like everyone that was covering the game, and players on ESPN, felt Ron Artest overreacted, but was justified because he was struck first. I wonder what would have happened if he'd got the right guy. The next thing you know, this "politically correct" crap happens over the next few days, and now everyone thinks its a fair suspension. Vernon Maxwell got 10 GAMES for attacking a fan. Let's take that precedent, multiply by more than 7, and call it just. It's a total crock. Just like you cannot blame Wallace for what happened after his little tantrum, you cannot blame Artest for what fans did after he went into the stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Is there any thought that maybe they set the suspension so high based on the thought that the players association will appeal and then maybe they knock it down to a lower number? I don't put much stock into what any covering the game was thinking, Hook. The commish had time to look at this thing on tape a bunch of times and gather some facts before handing down his punishment. I'm not for or against Artest as far as how long the suspension is but I do stick to the fact that no way you can justify going into the stands. You just can not let it happen as a professional organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Yes, I know. That night, it seemed like everyone that was covering the game, and players on ESPN, felt Ron Artest overreacted, but was justified because he was struck first. I wonder what would have happened if he'd got the right guy. The next thing you know, this "politically correct" crap happens over the next few days, and now everyone thinks its a fair suspension. Vernon Maxwell got 10 GAMES for attacking a fan. Let's take that precedent, multiply by more than 7, and call it just. It's a total crock. Just like you cannot blame Wallace for what happened after his little tantrum, you cannot blame Artest for what fans did after he went into the stands. 572662[/snapback] And you fall into the category of not wanting to assign responsibility to those responsible. The Maxwell analogy is good on face value only. It was a one on one incident that didn't get beyond that. Artest went into the stands, the Pacers followed and that started a RIOT. That is a big difference, you simply do not want to admit that. So you take the 10 game precedent and multiply it by 7 because that's at least as how many people got sucked into his mess. Justice served. The image sticking in my mind is of the 9 year old kid clutching his mom, scared to death because they couldn't get out of there. That was Artest's responsibility, as someone who knowingly did something he shouldn't have, without regard for the consequences. Players do not go into the stands. If they get hit with something, it's well established that person will have the law pursue them. The fact Artest went up into the stands without seeing or knowing who did it and start attacking people who 'look' guilty, well he is a man resonsible for his own actions. I have no sympathy for the guy who threw the cup. He's in deep ***, just you wait. He apparently has a bunch of priors, and his attack on Artest from behind won't help has case either. You make 5 million a year? Go buy some thick skin, and get over having beer dumped on you. Showers are cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 could have easily happened in the Maxwell incident as well, depending on the other players and the fans. Artest went into the stands for a one on one confrontation with the fan he believed to be the culprit, and other fans got involved. And I do believe the players have some responsiblilty. But the punishment is over the top. . . Detroit should have all beer sales suspended for the year, but that effects Stern's pocket, so you know that's not going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 could have easily happened in the Maxwell incident as well, depending on the other players and the fans. Artest went into the stands for a one on one confrontation with the fan he believed to be the culprit, and other fans got involved. 572693[/snapback] The point is it didn't happen in the Maxwell incident. And that really, truly matters given that this one got so out of control so quickly. As I said, he needs to be responsible, and your implication that he didn't 'mean' to start a riot and simply wanted to confront a single fan doesn't jibe with a leaping, swinging basketball player who basically grabbed the first guy he thought did something that I saw the other night. That isn't reasonable by any stretch, and frankly there will probably be several fans right in the middle of it who won't get anything thrown at them because of a legit self-defense claim against the Pacers. Only people in Indy think it's a stiff punishment? Could it be a by product of the diappointment fans feel after expecting a solid season this year? Frankly, given his past problems he's lucky they'll (the NBA) take him back next year. At least he has his album to sell, and he got some great free promotion out of this. Maybe it'll cover his settlements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 (edited) By that reasoning, Ben Wallace is also guilty. By throwing the wristband, I'm sure he did not "mean" for a fan to follow his example and throw something at Artest. But he did. Is Wallace guilty too? I don't think so. Artest did not throw a punch at the first guy. He only started swinging after the real beer chucker punched him twice in the back of the head. I've seen fans outside of Indiana on both sides of the issue as well. Edited November 24, 2004 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighKite Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Artest ,the coward was to hurt to fight Ben Wallace but healthy enough to go chase down the nerdiest guy in the crowd (a guy who had his beer in his hand..not to mention running right by the guy who threw the beer who was ready to fight)..he should of not been laying on the table he should of been standing up to Big Ben like a man..that being said I think sufficient fines would of been Artest and Stephen Jackson 30 games suspensions..Big Ben and Jermaine Oneil 15 games and the Pistons forfeit 2 games...this way every side gets penalized..the players lose games and money and the fans lose wins for their teams..they (the fans)want to pretend they are part of the team then they should be givin some kind of game related penalty. that being said GO PISTONS !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 By that reasoning, Ben Wallace is also guilty. By throwing the wristband, I'm sure he did not "mean" for a fan to follow his example and throw something at Artest. But he did. Is Wallace guilty too? I don't think so. Artest did not throw a punch at the first guy. He only started swinging after the real beer chucker punched him twice in the back of the head. 572700[/snapback] And now you're being silly in trying to cloud the issue: you're right, Artest didn't swing. He merely jumped into the face of someone he had 7 inches and how many pounds on, grabbed his shirt and shoved the guys head onto the headrest while screaming at him. No big deal. Why should he expect anyone around this guy to react? Wallace got 5 games. And plenty of fracases (sp?) have occured between players in the past and they've been dealt with. To equate wrist bands with assault shows just how biased you are in trying to support the thug on your favorite team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 (edited) I never said the wristband was assault. I said he should NOT be punished because what he did incited a riot. Same with Artest. Why didn't any other fans react when Maxwell went into the stands? So you know, I'm not a big Pacer fan. And particularly, I've never been a fan of Artest. I KNOW he deserves a suspension. High Kite's resolution seemed fair, and that's what I thought should happen as well. Artest, Jackson, and O'Neal will pay monetarily if they are deemed liable, but I just feel that a couple of the suspensions were too lengthy. That does not make me biased, it means I have an opinion. Chill out. Edited November 24, 2004 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 I never said the wristband was assault. I said he should NOT be punished because what he did incited a riot. Same with Artest. Why didn't anyone react when Maxwell went into the stands? So you know, I'm not a big Pacer fan. And particularly, I've never been a fan of Artest. I KNOW he deserves a suspension. High Kite's resolution seemed fair, and that's what I thought should happen as well. Artest, Jackson, and O'Neal will pay monetarily if they are deemed liable, but I just feel that a couple of the suspensions were too lengthy. That does not make me biased, it means I have an opinion. Chill out. 572712[/snapback] I am chill, but you again equate tossing a wristband with what Artest did. You know that's nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Read it one more time. Maybe this time you will understand what I am saying. Wallace is not responsible for inciting a riot by pushing Artest in the neck and flipping a wristband at him. I do not think Artest can be held responsible for what happened after he went into the stands with the rest of the Pacers and the Piston fans. He went to confront the (wrong) guy. If it had stopped right there, that's exactly what Maxwell did. 10 game suspension. At that point fans grab Ron, start punching him, etc. and all hell breaks loose. Not exactly his fault. Forseeable? Yes. But he should not shoulder the brunt of the responsibilty, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighKite Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 I would not of blamed Artest at all myself had he hit the right guy..but if you do not know who the right guy is you just don't go swinging wildly. Let someone throw a beer on me on purpose at my job and I am gonna do my best to crack their skull wide open. That is starting a fight..you *** well be ready to finish it if you are gonna start it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 I agree, HK. He must have had a pretty good idea where it came from though, he was just one seat off, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 I do not think Artest can be held responsible for what happened after he went into the stands with the rest of the Pacers and the Piston fans. He went to confront the (wrong) guy. If it had stopped right there, that's exactly what Maxwell did. 10 game suspension. At that point fans grab Ron, start punching him, etc. and all hell breaks loose. Not exactly his fault. Forseeable? Yes. But he should not shoulder the brunt of the responsibilty, IMO. 572721[/snapback] I know what you are saying and believe you are off base. I leave it here with your own words: 'Forseeable? Yes.' In other words he's responsible, and rightfully took the brunt of the blame: no go in stands, no riot. 'I know I'm drunk officer, but I was driving fine until that bike came out of nowhere. Was it forseeable that driving drunk might cause an accident? Sure, but it's not my fault the guy was wearing black was it?' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 I'I know I'm drunk officer, but I was driving fine until that bike came out of nowhere. Was it forseeable that driving drunk might cause an accident? Sure, but it's not my fault the guy was wearing black was it?' 572728[/snapback] Now who is making silly comparison? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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