Caveman_Nick Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 IMO, Tom Brady has no where near the abilities of Peyton Manning. Do you really think guys like Stokely, Wayne, and Clark are that great, or does Peyton make them look great (notice I left Harrison and James off of that list)? Yeah, Brady does a good job of managing his simpler offense, but you put him in the Colts offense, and I do not think he could do what Peyton does. Could Peyton be 9-1 if he had the rest of the Patriots team around him? Sure. Having a defense certainly helps. 578734[/snapback] I guess my diplomatic way of stating that there's no way to answer the question, because you can only look at what each player does for their individual team was lost on you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCKNE Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 I think Manning carrying the team by himself is great! This guy knows he has to run the score up to give his team a chance to win! We all know they have no defense! By running up the score, that take pressure off the defense and they don't have to try so hard every play! Does anyone think these pro players give a darn about fantasy football? They all play to win and to put the ring on one day! Me, myself I love blow outs and teams running the score up! Every dog has his day! I'm sure when other teams get the chance to pay back Indy, they will, without second thought! My oppenent this week started Stokley(23) and J. Jones(27) and I'm down by 50 points! That's just the way Fantasy Football is! 578468[/snapback] That's just it, he isn't doing it all by himself. He just get's all the glory. Without Edge in the backfield this whole thing about him breaking the record wouldn't even be remotely possible. Manning thrives on the play-action pass wich is set up by the all-pro RB Edgerrin James. Also when it's not play-action James is one of the best pass protecting RB's in the League. Manning minus James = nothing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Could Manning have gotten this team to 9-1 with only David Givens and David Patten to throw to all season? Maybe, I don't know. He couldn't get the colts team there with skill players like James, Harrison, Wayne, Stokley, Clark, and Pollard, plus an NFL top 5 offensive line. I'm not saying it's all his fault. I'm saying that he's the NFL MVP because of what he does on his team. And as good as Brady has been this year (actually amazing if you consider the hugh number of injuries on offense for the Pats), Dillon is the thing that will put them over the top this year. 578666[/snapback] Why do Patriot fans always mention all the weapons Peyton has, but fail to mention that NE has a defense that NEVER lets a game get out of control? The defense always keeps it close. I think if Manning and Brady switched places, the Patriot offense would be unstoppable, and the Colt offense would be mediocre. And mediocre combined with the Colt defense would be bad news. Nick, you are right about Dillon though. What an unbelievable addition! I want to beat the Bengals silly. A second round pick? Are you kidding me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 (edited) Why do Patriot fans always mention all the weapons Peyton has, but fail to mention that NE has a defense that NEVER lets a game get out of control? The defense always keeps it close. I think if Manning and Brady switched places, the Patriot offense would be unstoppable, and the Colt offense would be mediocre. And mediocre combined with the Colt defense would be bad news. Nick, you are right about Dillon though. What an unbelievable addition! I want to beat the Bengals silly. A second round pick? Are you kidding me? 578820[/snapback] Here's reason 1... 33 points given up in 3 games, and only 26 by the defense. They are still something like 23rd in scoring defense, but it looks like they are starting to shape up. Houston and Detroit are not great offensive teams, but they are both hovering right around the middle of the NFL pack. Indy shut both offenses down. I think it's time to stop the "If they only had a defense" mantra. 576097[/snapback] Enough of that. Reason 2: Do you know what the Pats have been going through on defense? Ty Poole has missed most of the season, and Law has missed every game since the Pittsburgh Game, and was lost on the first series on that game. Their defensive backfield is starting Earthwind Moreland, for cripes sake. Defense is not a stron point right now, because they are extremely vulnerable to the big play. You manning knob slobbers need to take your blinders off a little bit. 1) He's having a season for the ages on his team 2) You have no idea what he would do on another team, and you have no idea what another QB would do on this Colts team. 3) Manning is the best QB in the league right now, but that is no guarantee of success in another system, and it says nothing about another quarterback's ability to succeed if they had his system and his supporting cast. It also means nothing in the way of jock carrying. Making statements like I think if Manning and Brady switched places, the Patriot offense would be unstoppable, and the Colt offense would be mediocre. is just plain stupid and meaningless. Edited November 28, 2004 by Caveman_Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Yeah, I'm sure Bill could never use Manning and Dillon to create play action. Give me a break. This year, the Patriot defense has not been as dominant as usual, but go back to '01 and '03. Great defense. Great special teams. Of course it's ridiculous to compare how each would do on the other's team, but I wasn't the first to do it in this thread. Bill does an unbelievable job coaching that defense, no matter who is out there. How else do you explain what they did to KC last week? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotgun Messiahs Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 That's just it, he isn't doing it all by himself. He just get's all the glory. Without Edge in the backfield this whole thing about him breaking the record wouldn't even be remotely possible. Manning thrives on the play-action pass wich is set up by the all-pro RB Edgerrin James. Also when it's not play-action James is one of the best pass protecting RB's in the League. Manning minus James = nothing! 578819[/snapback] So you're saying Quincy Carter can do just as good with the Colt's? I'm not saying Harrison and Wayne and Stokley don't bring nothing to the table but someone has to get them the ball! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Yeah, I'm sure Bill could never use Manning and Dillon to create play action. Give me a break. This year, the Patriot defense has not been as dominant as usual, but go back to '01 and '03. Great defense. Great special teams. Of course it's ridiculous to compare how each would do on the other's team, but I wasn't the first to do it in this thread. Bill does an unbelievable job coaching that defense, no matter who is out there. How else do you explain what they did to KC last week? 578932[/snapback] KC beat them on several long passes. KC's offensive game plan was stupid. That's how I explain it. If I were the OC in KC, I'd have thrown 5 wides out every down and smoked the Pats. I would have mede them prove they could stop it, and the score would have been 55 to less than 55, KC. If you notice, I am trying to steer the discussion away from the idiocy of comparing who would do what on which team, so saying 'you didn't do it first' is meaningless. Treat it like drugs...just say no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Let's see...Never lost a playoff game vs. chokes plaayoffs away ever year... 578616[/snapback] Let's see... can't even get to the playoffs without a stellar defense vs. getting to the playoffs every year with a crappy defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Oh they have a defense, which is a part of football for Christ's sake, so it doesn't count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 (edited) Let's see... can't even get to the playoffs without a stellar defense vs. getting to the playoffs every year with a crappy defense. 579050[/snapback] Shh. Stay out of my Me vs. Squeegie sass. EDIT: Not to mention, we are just talking about engineering one critical game winning drive, not who is the better QB all around. EDIT: EDIT: And for that matter, I really thought you might rise above this, Bill. Read the whole discussion and try and answer in context please. Isn't my saying Manning is hands down the NFL MVP this year enough to appease you? Sorry to sound snippy, but I am amazed at the unwillingness of people to take a discussion for what it is and actually consider someone's whole opinion. Edited November 28, 2004 by Caveman_Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Shh. Stay out of my Me vs. Squeegie sass. EDIT: Not to mention, we are just talking about engineering one critical game winning drive, not who is the better QB all around. EDIT: EDIT: And for that matter, I really thought you might rise above this, Bill. Read the whole discussion and try and answer in context please. Isn't my saying Manning is hands down the NFL MVP this year enough to appease you? Sorry to sound snippy, but I am amazed at the unwillingness of people to take a discussion for what it is and actually consider someone's whole opinion. 579058[/snapback] I'm just busting your balls, Nick. FWIW, I think that Brady's a hell of a QB. Just not quite as good as Peyton, though. Back to our regularly-scheduled argument... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 I'm just busting your balls, Nick. FWIW, I think that Brady's a hell of a QB. Just not quite as good as Peyton, though. Back to our regularly-scheduled argument... 579066[/snapback] Yeah, well you did a good job... :bricks: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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